[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[softweir]

33 minutes ago, Buisson said:

I can't really say if everything's looks fine. Here is some screenshots, do they look all right ?

 

That looks badly broken. The voxels ought to be hugging and covering the skin of the craft, not hanging off in empty space leaving the skin completely bare. Try removing any tweakscale parts you have on it, then try replacing non-stock parts with stock parts until one of the changes fixes the voxels, in which case the last part you removed was the culprit. Then put back the other parts you removed, and if the voxels go wrong again then you have several culprits!

[tetryds]

@Buisson It looks like you rescaled it so much but FAR used the voxel scale like if it wasn't rescaled, and you lost precision enough to have problems.

That's just a guess tho, judging by the huge markers.

[Buisson]

Hello 

Thank you for your answers !

So I had a deep look into that, and I found precisely the parts that went wrong :

Only the Skipper and Mainsail engines make the voxels go nuts, and only if Ven's Stock Revamp mod is installed.

Now I am looking for a way to fix this, as those two engines are quite useful

Maybe with the Skipper.mu and Mainsail.mu files in Ven's Stock Revamp mod ?

Thanks !

[Majromax]

19 hours ago, ferram4 said:

It looks like GetPotentialTorque is supposed to only report positive numbers.  And yes, if the old CLS was breaking FAR that updating that would probably cause FAR to be less broken too.

I'm not sure if GetPotentialTorque is supposed to always report positive numbers, but a sounding rocket with winglets near the engine has positive torque reported with stock aero (measured via kOS), but negative torque reported with FAR.

[TeiwazVIE]

I'm having similar issues like @Buisson - as you can see on the images provided here:

I'm running the (CKAN) latest versions of RSS/RO/RP0 and besides the voxels the CoL will go crazy as soon as I detach and reattach the launch stages (as can be seen on image 1 vs. 2). When I load a working rocket and reload the crazy one, CoL is fixed and the rocket is usable (just some phantom roll forces applied to it) again. I'm using the RD-108(?) as first stage engine and I'm pretty sure that one's the culprit - just don't know which one that would be for vanilla. Nothing's tweakscaled, just your standard procedurals (tanks & fairings).

 

If Ven's Stock Revamp is causing this issue, can I remove it safely and still use RP0? CKAN says it's sort of a dependency and want's to remove RP0 as well.

Edited June 7, 2016 by TeiwazVIE
Finally know how imgur album embedding works...

[cantab]

On 15/09/2012 at 0:22 AM, ferram4 said:

 

FAR via CKAN Support Thread

If you installed via CKAN, your support posts go there, not here.

 

If you let CKAN install FAR, either as part of Realism Overhaul or otherwise, then ... that. Or completely delete the FerramAerospaceResearch and ModularFlightIntegrator folders from your GameData, then reinstall FAR manually, and see if the issue persists.

[TeiwazVIE]

8 minutes ago, cantab said:

If you let CKAN install FAR, either as part of Realism Overhaul or otherwise, then ... that. Or completely delete the FerramAerospaceResearch and ModularFlightIntegrator folders from your GameData, then reinstall FAR manually, and see if the issue persists.

Will try that. Thx.

Just one quick question: isn't CKAN supposed to take exactly the same zip file as a manual download form GitHub would give?

[blowfish]

15 minutes ago, TeiwazVIE said:

Just one quick question: isn't CKAN supposed to take exactly the same zip file as a manual download form GitHub would give?

In theory, yes

[TeiwazVIE]

1 hour ago, cantab said:

If you let CKAN install FAR, either as part of Realism Overhaul or otherwise, then ... that. Or completely delete the FerramAerospaceResearch and ModularFlightIntegrator folders from your GameData, then reinstall FAR manually, and see if the issue persists.

So I tried that but to no avail, still happening. But only with the RD-253/RD-275 (on all nodes, with or without shrouds enabled)... Other engines and all is fine.

 

1 hour ago, blowfish said:

In theory, yes

As, in theory, it shouldn't deadlock itself, hu?

[tetryds]

@Teiwaz CKAN is known for borking FAR, and ferram stopped supporting any CKAN installation of FAR for that reason.

If voxelization breaks when using specific parts please refer to the authors of such modded parts, the way FAR works probably means bad collision boxes or configurations.

[ferram4]

Your bug reports need to be done with the minimal mod installs possible, with every single step you took, from getting into the game to causing the bug itemized and a full copy of the log before I can do anything about it.  I can't do anything I have reliable, perfect reproduction steps.  And also, NO CKAN.

[blowfish]

I think I've seen a few reports that certain engines from Ven's stock revamp have issues in FAR.  That might be a good place to start.

[ferram4]

@Buisson & @TeiwazVIE: I have tracked the problem to certain VSR engine models.  There is nothing that can be fixed on my end; revert to earlier versions of VSR to get things working again.

[Tidus Klein]

would there be any way to simulate ground effect with this?

I had a small idea on how to implement it, but sense im no coder i have no idea if its plausible .

could you simply get far to check, a crafts radar altitude, and speed, and then have a multiplier on wing lift according to that? it would be a very roughly simulation of ground effect but could work. EX: say alt is 10M and your moving at 100 m/s Far adds lift to the wing according to your proximity to the ground and relative speed, how much lift would be added is up to you, i dont know if a leaner or exponential scale would fit best.

 

just a poorly expressed idea, but seems possible  

Edited June 8, 2016 by Tidus Klein

[Griffon345]

So I have the same issue with the confused CoL. An additional effect I've seen is that if you change the root part the CoL will centre around this part. There doesn't seem to be an aerodynamic explanation but what do I know. It seems that the calculation of the CoL only takes the root part into account. The other conditions mentioned are the same. (VSR and the engines that are used).

[ferram4]

@Tidus Klein: There's a very simple answer for that: that's too simplistic to represent how ground effect works.  If I did things that way, either teeny tiny planes with small wings would have way too much ground effect at too high an altitude or massive planes would have no ground effect too low to the ground.  It needs to scale with the size of the wings, and that requires the wing overhaul first.

@Griffon345: And if you had read my post above, you would know that the issue is entirely due to the VSR new engine models and you need to uninstall VSR or revert to an older version of it.  Please don't post if you're not adding any new information, it just buries useful information faster.

[larkvi]

To add to what Ferram said, if you go to the Ven's Stock Revamp thread, you'll note many people have been having trouble with the recent version. In my experience (my current game uses tons of VSR Skippers), 1.9.2 works fine with FAR, so use that until Ven has a chance to figure out what is going wrong.

[TeiwazVIE]

On 8.6.2016 at 0:58 AM, ferram4 said:

Your bug reports need to be done with the minimal mod installs possible, with every single step you took, from getting into the game to causing the bug itemized and a full copy of the log before I can do anything about it.  I can't do anything I have reliable, perfect reproduction steps.  And also, NO CKAN.

I didn't want to file a bug report, just noticed an issue through FAR and because I didn't know what could cause it I came here to see if maybe others have this issue too  No need to when it's probably just an issue on my side. Even if FAR can be a real pain in the ass sometimes it's - IMO - one of the most bug free mods for KSP. Thx for all the hard work and bug tracking though

 

23 hours ago, larkvi said:

To add to what Ferram said, if you go to the Ven's Stock Revamp thread, you'll note many people have been having trouble with the recent version. In my experience (my current game uses tons of VSR Skippers), 1.9.2 works fine with FAR, so use that until Ven has a chance to figure out what is going wrong.

Thx, I'll try 1.9.2.

[Edit]

Version 1.9.2 fixes it.

[/Edit]

Edited June 9, 2016 by TeiwazVIE

[Nansuchao]

@ferram4, I bring you the congratulations of an airline pilot friend of mine, yesterday he was at my home and he saw for the first time KSP and Far. I showed him all the stats Far gives in the editor and in flight and he was really impressed by your job.

[npt]

Is there a simple description anywhere of how to make a plane more dynamically stable? I can use the stability derivative simulation to show that my plane isn't (e.g. fast undamped pitch oscillations given ~any starting conditions in the longitudinal stability window), but I don't know how to relate the instability to the stability derivatives, and I don't have any intuition for how to change things to reduce it (even though I was able to make all the stability derivatives green).

[TeiwazVIE]

16 hours ago, npt said:

Is there a simple description anywhere of how to make a plane more dynamically stable? I can use the stability derivative simulation to show that my plane isn't (e.g. fast undamped pitch oscillations given ~any starting conditions in the longitudinal stability window), but I don't know how to relate the instability to the stability derivatives, and I don't have any intuition for how to change things to reduce it (even though I was able to make all the stability derivatives green).

@npt you may find these videos helpful:
 

 

 

Other than that - trial and error

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by TeiwazVIE

[Dermeister]

These are awesome videos! plus the guys voice sounds SUper nerdy! it's fitting! i'm picturing the guy with big glasses! LOL!  I love these videos! feels very kerbalish! or guys with a white shirt and a pen in his front pocket explaining stuff!

[Neutrino.]

Hi.

I'm having an issue with FAR_0_15_6_5_Knudsen. After installation of FAR loading a plane in the SPH and opening the FAR gui all the graphs are blank, all readouts are zero. This is the case with stock planes, the planes that come with FAR, and planes I built myself.

In flight a plane I'm testing that flies beautifully in stock is practically uncontrollable with FAR installed, (although this is my first time using FAR so I'm not sure what to expect). The plane behaves as if there is almost no drag, it cruises at 200kt with 10% throttle, accelerates towards the ground with no throttle at all with even the tiniest amount of nose down even if the undercarriage is down, and bounces wildly off the runway on even a gentle touchdown.

In level flight lowering the undercarriage has no noticeable effect (I would expect some increased drag), and rolling left or right appears to pitch the nose up too.

It's quite likely my plane is crap and badly designed, but the fact that the FAR gui is all blank is causing me to think that something else is wrong too. Since no one else seems to be having this issue I suspect I've probably done something incorrectly, but the installation instructions seem fairly idiot proof so I can't work out what I've done wrong.

This is on a clean KSP, the only other mod installed is ShowFPS.

KSP 1.1.2 x64
Win7 x64

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ah4umej3ishjy55/output_log.txt?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/73cvt6d05h9he4o/MK1 Small Jet.craft?dl=0

[tetryds]

@Neutrino. did you install FAR via CKAN?

If you did, this is not the thread to ask for support.

If you didn't, this sounds like a bad installation, make sure you put the folder FerramAerospaceResearch on your GameData together with ModularFlightIntegrator and the latest Module Manager, everything that you need comes bundled with FAR, just make sure you keep only the latest iteration of Module Manager and MFI.

[Neutrino.]

No. I installed it manually as you described.