ferram4

[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

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@Climberfx: I'm not returning the TurboJet engines to their previous performance; there is no engine on Earth that can possibly come anywhere near that kind of broken performance and they should run out of steam long before they reach 1600 m/s (which is about the fastest you can go on those engines). It still makes more thrust than it really should and is far more efficient than it should be. I'm not changing a currently still OP part back to more-OP.

And the "fix" you made on the command pod has it suffering from stock drag and FAR drag. With FAR installed all parts end up having those drag values set to zero, though most of them have it done in-game and not in the part.cfg; this is because if I don't do that then stock drag still acts on the part. Your "fix" is, frankly, a terrible idea and will cause unexpected and unrealistic aerodynamic problems to occur.

@Laphtiya: You need to account for the aerodynamics of your rocket design with FAR installed; if your rocket is unstable a quick fix is to put fins at the bottom. Consider delaying serious staging events until you're out of the lower atmosphere and try to keep the rocket from overspeeding, since that will allow aerodynamic forces to overpower your control authority. Make sure to start your gravity turn much lower than you're used to and keep the rocket pointed fairly close to prograde so that you stay in control. Those suggestions tend to fix approximately 99% of all the problems people have with transitioning to FAR. If you need more inspiration, take a look at real life rockets and design yours to look more like those than the abominations that most people build.

@vrga: Possibilities:

1. You need more struts; essentially, your plane is so flexible that it's undergoing aeroelastic flutter prior to takeoff; that's a very rare thing, but a possibility.

2. You're overspeeding on the runway; you might need to push your CoL or main landing gear forward to make rotating and taking off easier.

3. Your landing gear aren't perfectly straight; check to make sure they are and then strut to prevent hopping around on the runway.

If you need more help, post a picture, since that's far more useful than a description.

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could anyone explain to me why would a plane decide to start shaking itself apart even before it lifts off properly? i've seen it happen while trying to fly the hypersonic speed thing and another design of mine that should take off, but they quite literally go "stable, stable, wings start catching air, have a seizure, fall apart"

I just did a completely fresh install with FAR & Taverius' parts and I get the wings shaking to total destruction at about 30m/s. If I remove the FAR plugin the shaking goes away

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@ferram4: Thanks for all of the help with the Dragon Capsule! After adjusting the capsule to the actual mass of Dragon and playing with S, I was finally able to get it to stop and touch down safely! However, it required an S value of 350, which is nowhere near realistic (about 10x what it should be). I think one of the reasons this is happening is because, as S increases, my CD decreases (S = 35 gave CD ~ 0.0344, S = 250 gave CD ~ 0.0069). It all works and is good now; I just didn't know if this information was helpful to you at all.

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Okay everyone, version 0.9.2 is out, hopefully fixing the debris lag bug and some of the twitchy wing problems. Center of lift is also more accurate now, though the off-center issue persists. And all command pods automatically get the control system added.

@kizza42: Try this version, see if it works; if it doesn't please post a picture and the problematic craft so I can find the problem.

@DresCroffgrin: Part of the reason that Cd would be decreasing as S increases would be the Dragon Pod itself not having a large drag coefficient; something is very, very wrong here since an S of 350 corresponds to about the surface area of an entire rocket. Try having it come in oriented the other way and see what happens; the part might just be backwards.

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Ferram4, my answer to you:

For the other thing, the fix that you said is a double drag, i answer telling you that the rocket don't' reenter in a correct way, after i put the FAR system (that i love, but for planes). If i leave the configs as you tell us, even knowing my rocket is a tube with back heavier than the front, it will always turn and spinning on reentering. Some times even on take off when getting more speed. That is not the correct way aerodynamics work, not at all.

So, is sad, because one thing (the rockets thing, that is more then 50% of the game), i will take off the plugin.

If you don't take the plugin as a hole, like the game is, i cannot take more fun from it with your plugin.

But thank you for the Amazing Experience on Planes! Worth the try!

:)

Edited by Climberfx

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Sorry, doublepost

Edited by zzz

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In last update takeoff is better, but it's shifts CoL to one side - there example. With stock wings it is same. When drag and move plane in hangar Col is in the center, but when release - it's shifts. Update CoLbutton didn't help. And in flight plane is turning.

thumb.png

the stall angle in the VAB is also stuck at 859°...

btw, zzz, try adding control surfaces and modifying their angles then hitting the update button. that solved it for me yesterday.

It's just example to be obvious. I have, previously created, something similar with lot of wings and all control surfaces and have same problem. With 0.9.1 all was fine

2Climberfx : this jet give you around 20% of speed to orbit. Ksp jets, even with FAR give you more then 60%

Edited by zzz

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the stall angle in the VAB is also stuck at 859°...

btw, zzz, try adding control surfaces and modifying their angles then hitting the update button. that solved it for me yesterday.

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The 859° thing resets after you go for a flight. I saw it on first load but once I flew it was back to correct readings

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if stall angle is freaking out you need to turn center of lift on and press update CoL...

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it would be nice to have an in-flight option to disable FAR control surfaces when they arent needed anymore (in vaccuum)

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@Climberfx: But my point still stands; this is a jet engine we're talking about, not a rocket engine that can ingest air to augment its oxidizer supplies; the two are completely different. And I suspect you're doing something very wrong if you can't get your rocket to orient itself the way you want; you're just refusing to design around the aerodynamics that are there and are instead insisting that the aerodynamics change to make your design work.

@zzz: See if adding struts to keep the wings straight helps fix the problem.

@vrga: I didn't look into fixing that this time around; hopefully next update.

@masiboss: The shouting-style text wasn't necessary, you know. If you really want to switch between FAR-on and FAR-off, just have two separate versions of KSP; adding an option in-game would allow people to cheat around difficult aerodynamics.

@MAKC: I've never actually understood the desire for this; it's not like they use electricity or something. Yeah, it can look stupid, but this is KSP; everything looks a little derpy.

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@zzz: See if adding struts to keep the wings straight helps fix the problem.

It's not about struts. My plane work fine and have CoL at center in 0.9.1 but have Col shifted(even at new plane) and is turning at 0.9.2. I just roll back to 0.9.1 and all is work. Something wrong for me in new update.

@zzz: Post the plane so I can try it out. I think everything should work correctly.

I'm already post picture where very simple simmetrical plane have shifted CoL, sorry, but I don't think this is correct.

Edited by zzz

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@Climberfx: But my point still stands; this is a jet engine we're talking about, not a rocket engine that can ingest air to augment its oxidizer supplies; the two are completely different. And I suspect you're doing something very wrong if you can't get your rocket to orient itself the way you want; you're just refusing to design around the aerodynamics that are there and are instead insisting that the aerodynamics change to make your design work.

I can send you the ship, is Stock parts, with mechjeb, and you will see that i'm not doing anything wrong. And you will see, that you are not God.

And i'm not suggesting to change to make my design work. I made the suggestion, that your job is wrong! Check it!

I already uninstall it from my computer, because it is marvelous with jets, but fu?k up the Rocket. DOT!

Edited by Climberfx

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@zzz: Post the plane so I can try it out. I think everything should work correctly.

@Climberfx: Remove MechJeb and I'll take a look at it.

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Here it is, With Mechjeb. It is not exactly the one i had the problem, because after that i put more fuel to work with Stock aerodynamics.

Fell free to change or use it. In Stock Aerodynamics it reenter backwards like a rock. without losing angle.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kcatghb6cbi3ac3/Hummer%20SSTO.craft

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There are a bunch of extra non-stock parts on that ship; remove them or give me a list of the mods you're using or I won't be able to test it.

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Here's an odd one: if I hit Ctrl-Z in the SPH & get my parts back, the CAS dialog expands & refuses to minimise again...

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There are a bunch of extra non-stock parts on that ship; remove them or give me a list of the mods you're using or I won't be able to test it.

Sorry, that one had my adjustable suspension, for inclined ground, that use a type suspensatron.

Here the stock one. The original i restore from backup and remove Mechjeb.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/302s35uj5cap9t9/SSTO%20Rocket%20Stock%20FAR.craft

Edited by Climberfx

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so ive got a bit of a problem, I've been experimenting with forward swept wings trying to get the highest AoA without stalling, however two things have gotten in my way the first my CoL is skewed to the right even though i built the plane with symmetry the whole time the second is the actual control of the plane the maximum AoA i can get is between 6-9 most planes max AoA is about 20 is this a limit with the game or am i doing something wrong?

heres the craft file everything stock-> http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=85331445479649398855

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