ferram4

[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

Recommended Posts

Yes - but changing how? Can I squeeze it into a rounded-corner rectangle? A triangular shape like the one on the SR-71? Can I do this? Last I looked I only had circular cross-sections available.

Azimech has been working on other procedural shapes using the pParts base code. Now that shapes actually matter, we may be able to convince him to do some practical shapes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick commend to ferram4:

Thank you that you keep working on this mod, FAR always was the most important mod in KSP. Looking forward to your new version.

Keep on doing that amazing job :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is anyone interested in variable sweep wings. I know I know you can do it with Infernal robotics but i prefer my planes to not be jelly so can we please get it as a single part?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is anyone interested in variable sweep wings. I know I know you can do it with Infernal robotics but i prefer my planes to not be jelly so can we please get it as a single part?

I thought you were offering yourself to make a mod for them, haha.

The current release would not handle it, and AFAIK nuFAR still uses old wing code, so I believe you would need to use IR's method to move them.

Still, having a wing part dedicated for that would be interesting, as you said, using the joints is not optimal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I will say that nuFAR is awesome and should be out in a day or two. Currently I'm waiting on a stripped-down parachute module from stupid_chris (who was gracious enough to offer one) to replace stock behavior. For obvious reasons, I can't release a FAR version that results in pods impacting the ground at 180 m/s. Also, I'm too sleepy to make a good judgment call about its release state.

For those wondering exactly what nuFAR / voxelFAR / vesselCenteredFAR does compared to previous versions, it basically does away with the part-centered operation of the previous FAR versions (the same behavior that powers NEAR and newStock) in favor of a vessel-centered approach. Instead of the part-centered complications of determining the interactions between parts (which are never done exactly right) it'll create a voxel model of the vehicle to work with, like these guys:

http://i.imgur.com/th6Jd6z.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/fkxx9ON.png

From this, I can get a lot of data about how the vessel will behave in flight. Most importantly, I can implement a long-awaited feature: area-ruling. Basically, it's a requirement for transonic and supersonic flight that states that for minimum drag, a vehicle's cross-section must vary smoothly. And very small changes in cross-section can have a surprisingly large effect on transonic and supersonic drag. So for ease of use, you'll get a nice graph of cross-sectional area over the vehicle so you can see where to mess with things:

http://i.imgur.com/L3ZcDkV.png

The yellow line is the 2nd derivative of cross-sectional area, which actually goes into the math behind drag. Green is obviously cross-sectional area. Transonic area ruling consists of fiddling with the cross-section curves until you smooth out the curve to get minimum drag. For obvious reasons, some people will find this unfun given the limited design choices we have for shaping things, so there are difficulty options that include various multipliers to the total drag and smoothing functions for the area to deal with the noisiness of the voxel model itself. But to give you an idea of how this makes things go, getting supersonic is an exercise in flying through a brick wall that may tear you to shreds. I've actually had to throttle down near Max Q to prevent a very nasty, very large rocket from coming apart and destroying itself.

Besides that fun, the voxel approach also allows better resolution of body lift, which can give bodies their proper forces, rather than a simpler approximation from parts. Another benefit of the voxel approach is that cargo bays and payload fairings are emergent from the system. Rather than being defined top-down like in FAR, NEAR, or newStock, any collection of parts in a hollow arrangement will be tried as shielded from the airflow. Although the current wing model is the legacy oldFAR wing model, I also expect that the voxel approach can be used to calculate wing shapes and provide a much more accurate model of the wings as well as the fuselage.

So, yeah. Enjoy newStock for now or stay on 0.90 and keep oldFAR. nuFAR will be out soon, when I will battle the demons of what version to give it. :P

This is incredible :Q_

Eagerly awaiting nuFAR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm flabbergasted by the changes. FAR is turning more and more into a real-time aerodynamic simulation. With the new changes involving trans-sonic drag, do we have any word yet on modeling phenomena like wingtip drag or compression lift?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WHOA ! I admit i'm not nearly an expert on aero calculations but pictures blew me away. People will FINALLY be able to make (more or less structurally sound) payload shielding by "stitching" together various parts (and using IR to make some cool designs :) ). Last pic with overlay visualization left me almost speechless, i just have one thing to say about it : now that reworked IR supports in-editor animation of parts, think how will that curve change as you move parts. You will then be able to directly observe how IR-driven changes in shape affect aerodynamic forces. Robotics and aerodynamics heaven ! :0.0:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The new stock model is good but not adequate. It is still far too easy to reach space than orbit. I played very rarely without FAR and I do not want to start game without it again. I am reading very good stuff about this new nuFAR. I have read Ferrams explanation on new features and my mind blown out

Getting to space in FAR was always far easier than stock, as long as you built your rockets like actual rockets. The new 1.0 with it's rebalacing is also distinctly more challenging than FAR was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Getting to space in FAR was always far easier than stock, as long as you built your rockets like actual rockets. The new 1.0 with it's rebalacing is also distinctly more challenging than FAR was.

Conversely, I strongly suspect getting into orbit now with FAR will actually take more delta-V than without, since nuFAR correctly models trans-sonic drag and high-altitude skin drag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's awesome how your mod was so far ahead and so much more advanced than stock aero that it got effectively canonized for 1.0 (save high-G disentegration), and now, instead of resting on your laurels, you're developing the next NEXT generation of aerodynamics simulations for KSP. Well done, good sir. Well done.

One request, though: please, please make the wing models voxel-based as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Um, does this mean realchutes will become obsolete if I have nuFAR installed?

This is a good question.

Farrem4, you know I didnt think I could think this, but are you Santa Claus? Because you only bring joy into our lives!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Conversely, I strongly suspect getting into orbit now with FAR will actually take more delta-V than without, since nuFAR correctly models trans-sonic drag and high-altitude skin drag.

Yeah, I'm really curious what this is going to change. That drag will also act on the much weaker 1.0 rockets. Then again, maybe a good rocket will actually be more efficient than before?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is nuFAR Ferrems way of say OH YEAH!!! to squads new aero dynamics? XD

Its like Squad almost caught up to him then he just turned on the afterburners and was like... errrr BYE!!! Really I don't know why they haven't employed Farrem at this point... They probably have tried I suppose.

Although all the noobies would be scared away from the game if farrem were allowed free rain over the stock game. :sticktongue:

Although building a perfectly balanced craft with KSPI reactors is going to be much harder now as I was just sticking them to the side and encaing them in fairings with the decoupler's disabled which is kind of a hack but it wont work now because it would increase the area there for it would increase the drag.

Edited by etheoma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Adding to the choir: I just had a play with the new stock aero, and while it is a large improvement for stock, FAR is in no danger of becoming obsolete. I'll probably be leaving KSP largely unplayed until FAR updates.

This is my problem. I made a plane with no tail and it flew fine in stock. NO TAIL!?! It was terrible I subsiquently rashed it into the ground to destroy such an abomination. I am awaiting nuFAR much much more than 1.0!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is my problem. I made a plane with no tail and it flew fine in stock. NO TAIL!?! It was terrible I subsiquently rashed it into the ground to destroy such an abomination. I am awaiting nuFAR much much more than 1.0!

My experience was worse, methinks. I wanted to check out how forgiving the new My first rocket had no fins (!... okay, many rockets don't, but they use vectored thrust and very careful trajectories). I heeled over 5 degrees at 100m/s with a TWR ~1.7 and turned off SAS.

My rocket stayed on that heading all the way to space. Not on the prograde vector - 5-10 degrees from vertical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ferram, it makes me so happy to see that you already have a new, improved idea and are taking FAR to the next level! =D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it is, this is the first I've heard of it. The latest version is the one that supports 0.9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's on Github, isn't it?

Just download a zip of the repo if you want. Ferram isn't responsible if it isn't at release state as you are doing this at your own risk. I am sure we will have nuFAR today or tomorrow and after you wont even remember waiting for it, so why rush. I also saw in the deadly re entry thread ferram and starwaster are collaborating to make the 2 compatible with their respective new updates so it may take a little longer. You waited all the way for 1.0 what is 1 more day of errordynamics?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
I will say that nuFAR is awesome and should be out in a day or two. Currently I'm waiting on a stripped-down parachute module from stupid_chris (who was gracious enough to offer one) to replace stock behavior. For obvious reasons, I can't release a FAR version that results in pods impacting the ground at 180 m/s. Also, I'm too sleepy to make a good judgment call about its release state.

...

So, yeah. Enjoy newStock for now or stay on 0.90 and keep oldFAR. nuFAR will be out soon, when I will battle the demons of what version to give it. :P

Awww man that's looking epic! the new simplified scan of the skin surface approach seems like a great idea.

Just one question, Will NuFar differentiate a wing part from a random part? Or is it completely shape based?

ie; Could I make wings out of .. oxstat solar panels for example? (And have exact same drag/lift value if they have the exact same voxel shape than a stock delta wing let's say?)

¨

I'm so glad to soon be able to model stuff with clipping and make custom aero active shapes

Edited by RevanCorana

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.