[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[plausse]

I, on the other hand, am kinda pissed that I only produce craft which strongly resemble real world ones.

This is mostly due to my limited knowledge about how to actually use the tools provided with FAR. Or the limited time I have to play which results in even more limited time to read the kindly provided help and tooltips by Ferram within the game.

I think you have a point. I guess there is a reason real life planes look like they look..I could have been clearer, my planes look similar to existing planes too.. Often with bits borrowed from different models in the same niche. Ugly ducklings essentially.

The documentation is pretty boring. But it does explain things very well. Just a few hours of basic aerodynamics on Wikipedia made my planes fly wayyy better as well. I think far is hard.. But amazing and fun. Thanks Ferram.

[damerell]

I, on the other hand, am kinda pissed that I only produce craft which strongly resemble real world ones.

I guess there's two different interpretations clashing here. In a FAR world you'll produce craft that look like "real planes" because form follows function. But you won't produce craft that look like a specific model of real plane (or if you do, they won't fly exactly the same because you're working with a different kit of parts). And if one does a cargo-cult exercise, starting with the appearance and cloning that without regard to the engineering, it might not be a plane at all.

[Demuder]

I have a question...

Something is terribly wrong here, and I could use help to get this back on track.

I just started implementing mods, and I used the suggested FAR and Deadly Re-entry, installed with CKAN and Module Manager and ModularFlightIntegrator, as required. I have some other mods, looking at them, nothing really more than any other people have been using for their games. RemoteTech, RealChutes, TAC FUel Balancer, KW Rocketry...and so forth. I do have a couple that aren't 'standard' for people, KSP Interstellar Extended and all the USI (Tools, Survival, Life Support, Kolonization, Freight, Exploration) Just to give people a hint as to what I'm running.

Now, my issue. I'm not slowing down upon re-entry from orbit. Sure I've seen this post before, and people explaining as to how to do it.

It's not working. In fact, my pod coming in from an AP at 80,000 meters and my PE set at even as low as 5000 meteres. Results in my NOT slowing down, in fact I'm gaining speed. The only time I am slowing down is during my ascent back up to 80,000. In which I gain my speed back up to orbit velocity of approx. 2300m/s when I come back down. It's like the atmosphere is doing NOTHING at all to slow me down, but it sure likes to burn up my craft.

I've watched video's and mimicked their re-entry, to no avail. My mechanics don't even follow close.

So, I've figured out that there must be something terribly wrong. I can't be the one doing this bad, when I'm doing the same thing as others.

In FACT, for more weirdness....I've flown my rocket NOT even on a sub-orbital path, staying below 30K, and I can reach 1800ms, gaining speed as I fall to my inevitable doom.

So...what's wrong people? This is obviously very very wrong.

I started using FAR after 1.02, and stumbled on the same no-drag problem a couple of times - noone has succeeded in reproducing it on demand though.

However, uninstalling FAR from CKAN and installing it manually (all my other mods are installed through CKAN) solved the problem for me - hadn't had an incident of no drag for the past month. Although this is by no means "proof" that the bug is in the CKAN installation, try installing FAR manually - something that ferram himself suggest anyway.

[Kuroki]

Hi ferram and everyone else helping with FAR, sorry to interrupt the ongoing conversation, I just wanted to say thank you for the fantastic work on this mod. FAR is why I keep playing KSP, and I'm so impressed by the creativity and skill that has gone in to it.

Thank you very much for making the transition from flying in DCS to flying in KSP less of a shock to the system.

[Gamer217]

Better to ask that in http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/121176-Official-FAR-Craft-Repository

They will also need more information, at the very minimum the various graphs.

Which graphs and graph settings should I post them?

[kcs123]

Which graphs and graph settings should I post them?

Sweep AoA from -25 to 25 at takeoff/landing speeds, usually between 0.2 and 0.4 mach and same thing for speeds at 2, 4 and 6 mach

Besides that, screenshot of stability derivates ("green numbers") on 0m altitude/takeoff speed, 10km @ 1 and 2 mach, 18km 23 km, 26km @ 2,3,4 and 6 mach.

Maybe problem will be revealed only on one graph, but enumerated screenshots should cover all critical areas.

You may want to look for example in this galery. But as mentioned, post this in official FAR craft thread, not here.

Let keep this thread more clean and more readable for developers to spot important info about bugs/features etc.

[RickKermen]

Hello, 1st of all FAR is a must have mod!

I'm getting a issue that i dont know if it's FAR related, my Mercury pod from FASA mod speeds up on reetry instead of loosing speed, smashing my beloved kerbals into the ocean... any idea what can it be?

http://i.imgur.com/6wvxjOf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Aqvi65P.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ke5yjen.jpg

Regards!

PS: using RSS+RO

PS 2: I downloaded the latest Dev version from GitHub and it's now fixed

Edited June 18, 2015 by RickKermen

[Akira_R]

Hello, 1st of all FAR is a must have mod!

I'm getting a issue that i dont know if it's FAR related, my Mercury pod from FASA mod speeds up on reetry instead of loosing speed, smashing my beloved kerbals into the ocean... any idea what can it be?

http://i.imgur.com/6wvxjOf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Aqvi65P.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ke5yjen.jpg

Regards!

PS: using RSS+RO

Known issue, reportedly fixed in the current dev version.

Also it has been noted that if you do a manual install as opposed to installing via CKAN it may fix the problem.

Other things that have been said to fix the issue are doing a quick save and load before entering the atmosphere, or restarting ksp.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Akira_R

[TomatoSoup]

Why does this design, http://i.imgur.com/5kwiFP1.png, have such poor roll-right stability? At Mach 0.26 it's -45.1, but at mach 0.27 it becomes 10.6 and gets worse from there.

Edited June 18, 2015 by TomatoSoup

[tetryds]

Why does this design, http://i.imgur.com/5kwiFP1.png, have such poor roll-right stability? At Mach 0.26 it's -45.1, but at mach 0.27 it becomes 10.6 and gets worse from there.

That is lack of dihedral.

Swept wings increase this effect as you go faster.

You should post on the official repository if you want more help.

[ferram4]

Alright, so FAR v0.15.3, Froude is out. This is a serious bugfix update that should have killed almost all of the voxelization issues to date, as well as a few other, more minor issues.

For fun fluid dynamics thinking, people may be interested in the Froude number, which is one of many dimensionless numbers in fluid dynamics, in particular dynamics at a fluid interface, like the surface of water.

[DaMichel]

Awesome!

Question: Does the stability derivative simulation show solutions to linearized equations as in linear stability analysis? Why i ask? I have a plane that is dynamically unstable but all the deriv's are in the green.

Uh i guess there can be unstable modes despite all good coefficients. I just failed at math. But i would still like to know the answer for the question.

Suggestion: More popup help in the sim window, i.e. for the Init values. What are the angles, what is "Init:"? What are the units (radians, degrees)? Time units are seconds, i guess? Please add this, it would be great. Thanks!

Edited June 19, 2015 by DaMichel

[kcs123]

Awesome!

Question: Does the stability derivative simulation show solutions to linearized equations as in linear stability analysis? Why i ask? I have a plane that is dynamically unstable but all the deriv's are in the green.

Uh i guess there can be unstable modes despite all good coefficients. I just failed at math. But i would still like to know the answer for the question.

Suggestion: More popup help in the sim window, i.e. for the Init values. What are the angles, what is "Init:"? What are the units (radians, degrees)? Time units are seconds, i guess? Please add this, it would be great. Thanks!

Few pages back. Well, it is more like tens or so pages back, it was already answered. I agree idea to put those lines of text on right bottom unused side of FAR graph. Hopefully, less people will ask about it.

List of terms:

Longitudinal:

u = forward vel perturbation

w = downward vel perturbation

theta = pitch angle perturbation

q = pitch rate

Lateral:

beta = sideslip angle

phi = roll angle

r = yaw rate

p = roll rate

P.S.

I know about it, because I copied that info for another part of tutorial that I plan to release.

[Elmetian]

Not sure if anyone else is seeing this, but my control surfaces have lost roll control after updating to 0.15.3. Oddly, pitch and yaw are still working fine, and the reaction wheels are still responding to roll inputs. I've tried remapping my 360 controller but no joy, and the Q and E keyboard controls do nothing as well. Checked the tweakables and the ailerons are set up correctly. I deleted the 0.15.2 FAR and modularflightintegrator folders and then pasted in the new ones, so I'm going to try a clean install and see how that goes.

EDIT: Ignore me. deleting the ailerons and replacing them seemed to get them working again. Must have been something to do with the saved craft file.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Narcosis

[brusura]

No drag bug still present...can I reproduce it? No sorry

[ferram4]

Well, then at least tell me everything that you did that session. And I mean everything; how many times you loaded from the editor to flight, how many saves you went into, how many times you switched between vehicles, how many times you came in and out of timewarp, how many new vessels were created and if they were created simultaneously or not.

This entire bug reporting nightmare has been plagued by people leaving out important information out of some misguided attempt to help, but then following it up with, "but I can't reproduce it at will." Well, if I can collect a few dozen full reports of everything that has happened in the course of playing the game, I should be able to find a common denominator and work out what happened. For example, one of the issues was because of the editor -> flight transition. Know why I never looked at that? No one ever bothered to say, "I reverted to the SPH X times / launched X number of vehicles" or anything like that. You cannot provide too much information here.

[brusura]

As I said I cant reproduce sorry, I can not remember what you are asking, all I can give you are logs if you think are usefull

[Poodmund]

Ferram would it not be prudent to put a list/procedure of exact requirements for reporting bugs to yourself into the OP. I know you have done it before in other posts but to include it in the OP, you and others could just direct people to it to save you repeating yourself at length over and over.

[JanusKain]

Well, then at least tell me everything that you did that session. And I mean everything; how many times you loaded from the editor to flight, how many saves you went into, how many times you switched between vehicles, how many times you came in and out of timewarp, how many new vessels were created and if they were created simultaneously or not.

This entire bug reporting nightmare has been plagued by people leaving out important information out of some misguided attempt to help, but then following it up with, "but I can't reproduce it at will." Well, if I can collect a few dozen full reports of everything that has happened in the course of playing the game, I should be able to find a common denominator and work out what happened. For example, one of the issues was because of the editor -> flight transition. Know why I never looked at that? No one ever bothered to say, "I reverted to the SPH X times / launched X number of vehicles" or anything like that. You cannot provide too much information here.

I have some information after getting this bug. I started a new save and worked my way through contracts, I used the VAB 6 times, building a total of 6 crafts. On the 7th mission ( the problem one ), I launched the ship then reverted, swapped out the the pilot then relaunched. I achieved orbit, did my deorbit burn and had no drag. The bug persisted through 2 re-attemps ( revert to VAB, launch, orbit, no drag ). I have not had a chance to see if it is effecting the save or not ( I doubt it but I will update you the next time I can play ). None of the other launches I did before the bug had issues, but none of those launches were reverted, all were landed and then recovered.

[jrandom]

Ferram would it not be prudent to put a list/procedure of exact requirements for reporting bugs to yourself into the OP. I know you have done it before in other posts but to include it in the OP, you and others could just direct people to it to save you repeating yourself at length over and over.

It's a good idea, but they'll still not read it.

[JanusKain]

Ok, my first post seems to have been devoured, take 2.

I had the no drag bug occur in my game. It was a new save in which I made a total of 6 sucessful launches. On the 7th launch I reverted a few meters off the launch pad ( to VAB ) and swapped out the pilots. I then launched and reached a shallow orbit, on deorbit I had no drag. I retried ( revert to VAB and launch again, get to orbit, deorbit ) twice and the bug persisted. I don't know if the bug persists with save, I can try that when I get home tonight. I had an upgraded launch pad and mission control.

[technicalfool]

Ok, my first post seems to have been devoured, take 2.

I had the no drag bug occur in my game. It was a new save in which I made a total of 6 sucessful launches. On the 7th launch I reverted a few meters off the launch pad ( to VAB ) and swapped out the pilots. I then launched and reached a shallow orbit, on deorbit I had no drag. I retried ( revert to VAB and launch again, get to orbit, deorbit ) twice and the bug persisted. I don't know if the bug persists with save, I can try that when I get home tonight. I had an upgraded launch pad and mission control.

Hi!

You're new to the forums, so you're still on the mod queue. Your stuff needs to be approved by a moderator (like for instance, me) before it appears. HTH.

And now back to your regularly programmed aerospace-themed schedule...

[sashan]

I have Ferri now, and there's a bug where a certain vessel would trigger recalculation of voxels each second, causing stutters. Is it fixed in Froude? I melieve the error is caused by PorkJet's nuclear lightbulb engine, which has huge gimbal range, and the whole 4-meter long engine swivels around, with its collision mesh.

[Bakase]

You know, there's an easy way to find out...

[scavenger]

please can somebody provide a version of FerramAerospaceResearch.dll without the

&& !IsWin64()

for me to use it with 64bit please?

because to install visual studio 2013 I need 6GB of free space on C: which I do not have...

thank you

Edited June 21, 2015 by scavenger