ferram4

[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

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Same here: TweakScale + FAR = floating vessel at start and a crash soon after. Rescale to 100% = no issues

log

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Here's the solution for the Tweakscale interaction issue: wait until 1.1.3.  I'm not going to push a FAR update with that fix when 1.1.3 seems to be so close.

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Im experiencing some phantom rolling on some of my aircraft. Its nothing serious, just a very gradual roll, but Im a bit of a perfectionist and it bothers me. Ive made sure everything was built symmetrically and with angle snap yet sometimes certain wing parts are exerting aerodynamic forces that they shouldnt be. For example, I was just flying a plane where the rudder was producing lift to the left (thus rolling the plane) even tho it was angled straight on into the air flow. I then edited some unrelated part of the plane and it was fixed. I did some more editing and the problem was back again. 

Not exactly a super critical issue but if anyone has experienced this and knows how to prevent it, Id be grateful.

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On 6/17/2016 at 6:03 PM, lasergladiatrix said:

I don't know if this is a known bug, but after I installed FAR, all my vessels start torquing counterclockwise when I turn off SAS, even in vacuum. Uninstalling FAR fixes it. Does anyone know a fix that lets me keep FAR? Thanks!

 

On 6/17/2016 at 11:12 PM, Gryphon said:

Do you have any of the FAR flight assists active (even in a vacuum)?

 

On 6/18/2016 at 3:23 AM, lasergladiatrix said:

Yes, I did have those enabled. Turning them off fixed the issue, thank you.


@ferram4, @Gryphon
I had this exact problem, and I believe it started with 'Knudsen'.  And this solution also worked for me, so thanks for that.

Is there an intent to correct this in a future version (I hope)?   Since FAR knows when you're not in atmosphere, it seems like it should know not to apply these corrections when you are not.

Thanks for any thoughts on that.  This glitch has had me stumped for a while, but since I run a lot of mods, it took me forever to track it down to FAR, and since it was happening in space, FAR wasn't a mod that I suspected until I had eliminated everything else, and then Surprise!

Love your work Ferram.   Keep it up.

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@the_machemer: If the rudder is producing a leftward force on the plane, then the rudder is not on straight.  Angle snap does not always put parts directly straight, especially when they're placed on parts that don't have simple, cylindrical colliders.  This is a long-standing issue in the stock game that will also show itself under stock aerodynamics and it is not something I can fix, nor is trying to fix part attachment issues in the editor in scope for FAR.

@Kurtvw: That is not an issue.  That is exactly how the Flight Assistants have always behaved; they remain on when you leave them on, because you told them to be turned on.  This behavior has existed since the original FAR v0.1 and will not be removed because the game deciding "no, you didn't really want this control system active, I know better than you you poor, dumb player" is the worst kind of behavior to add.

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12 hours ago, ferram4 said:

 

@Kurtvw That is not an issue.  That is exactly how the Flight Assistants have always behaved; they remain on when you leave them on, because you told them to be turned on.  

@ferram4, Fair enough, I never noticed it before... But perhaps you can answer another question on this same topic... That AOA assist, if it is on in space, how is it determining the relative wind to get AOA?   Could an AOA of NaN be the source of what I saw?  (the AOA assist was on).
 

While I agree that trying to out think the dumb user is a bad approach, I think most folks would also agree that if the input to a function is invalid or illogical, then the function should not be continuing to try to do calculations.

Edited by Kurtvw

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5 hours ago, ferram4 said:

@the_machemer: If the rudder is producing a leftward force on the plane, then the rudder is not on straight.  Angle snap does not always put parts directly straight, especially when they're placed on parts that don't have simple, cylindrical colliders.  This is a long-standing issue in the stock game that will also show itself under stock aerodynamics and it is not something I can fix, nor is trying to fix part attachment issues in the editor in scope for FAR.

Thanks for the info. Ive never played without FAR so i kinda assumed :D

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7 hours ago, ferram4 said:

@Kurtvw: That is not an issue.  That is exactly how the Flight Assistants have always behaved; they remain on when you leave them on, because you told them to be turned on.  This behavior has existed since the original FAR v0.1 and will not be removed because the game deciding "no, you didn't really want this control system active, I know better than you you poor, dumb player" is the worst kind of behavior to add.

@ferram4 A little checkbox that says "disable Flight Assist in vacuum" in the dialog would stop these little reports though.

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8 hours ago, ferram4 said:

@Kurtvw: That is not an issue.  That is exactly how the Flight Assistants have always behaved; they remain on when you leave them on, because you told them to be turned on.  This behavior has existed since the original FAR v0.1 and will not be removed because the game deciding "no, you didn't really want this control system active, I know better than you you poor, dumb player" is the worst kind of behavior to add.

I've suggested before, some way for FAR to indicate the Flight Assistant is on might be warranted though. A highlight on the FAR icon, perhaps? Or how about only having it on when the FAR window is open, and turning it off when that window is closed?

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5 hours ago, cantab said:

I've suggested before, some way for FAR to indicate the Flight Assistant is on might be warranted though. A highlight on the FAR icon, perhaps? Or how about only having it on when the FAR window is open, and turning it off when that window is closed?

I like your first suggestion (indicating that one or more Flight Assists are active by "lighting up" the toolbar icon) but not so much your second one - you gotta be able to close the window without affecting the mod behavior.

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12 minutes ago, Gryphon said:

I like your first suggestion (indicating that one or more Flight Assists are active by "lighting up" the toolbar icon) but not so much your second one - you gotta be able to close the window without affecting the mod behavior.

Take a look at the way Automated Screenshots & Saves works.  The button icon changes color depending on what's going on

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@the_machemer and @ferram4: actually guys... ferram, remember that old voxelization problem with those pwings I reported and you solved? Well, thats the cause, except there's no need for mod parts (I sent you a stock plane that exhibited the behaviour right?). I just noticed it tonight, took a screen of the voxel debug showing the problem. Gotta go sleep now, but will post it tomorrow.

Fact is, that problem never went away completely for me.

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And now, FAR v0.15.7 "Küchemann" is out, with 1.1.3 compatibility and a few bugfixes and voxel optimizations.  Also a fix for a possible race condition that might have been hitting some people.

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9 hours ago, ferram4 said:

And now, FAR v0.15.7 "Küchemann" is out, with 1.1.3 compatibility and a few bugfixes and voxel optimizations.  Also a fix for a possible race condition that might have been hitting some people.

This changelog seems great, but this version broke solar panels here. They no longer produce electricity. Reverting to the previous one fixes it.

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@Ilya: I have tested all stock panels on the pad and each of them produces a electricity.  I need full reproduction steps and a copy of the log.

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27 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

@Ilya: I have tested all stock panels on the pad and each of them produces a electricity.  I need full reproduction steps and a copy of the log.

There aren't really reproduction steps in particular. Panels aren't working, whether it's on my already existing crafts or new ones on the launch pad, even though clicking on the panels tell me they're receiving light.

Log: https://files.fm/u/s8ge5zw2

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@Ilyawhat is the exact version of Kopernicus that you are using? There has been a "silent" bugfix release for exactly the problem that you are facing here.

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16 minutes ago, Phineas Freak said:

@Ilyawhat is the exact version of Kopernicus that you are using? There has been a "silent" bugfix release for exactly the problem that you are facing here.

Pretty sure I was up to date, but I just downloaded the latest one anyway to test, and the problem is still there.

Edited by Ilya

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1 hour ago, Ilya said:

There aren't really reproduction steps in particular.

Full reproduction steps includes details of your KSP installation, including what other mods if any you have installed. And if you can't reproduce the issue in a clean install with as few mods as possible, then it's an issue with FAR interacting with some other mod.

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Yeah, I've isolated the problem to a compatibility issue between Kopernicus and Küchemann (specifically). There's no doubt that those two are causing the issue.

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I only got lift in campaign and sandbox

If I play tutorials or scenarios, I only get drag

 

Got that problem with 15.6 and 15.7

and with ksp 1.1.2/ 1.1.3

 

EDIT: seems that if I start the game, then load a tutorial or a scenario, I got no lift.

BUT, if I load a campagn, or a sandbox, and then start a tutorial or scenario I'll get lift

Edited by genbrien

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5 minutes ago, genbrien said:

I only got lift in campaign and sandbox

If I play tutorials or scenarios, I only get drag

 

Got that problem with 15.6 and 15.7

and with ksp 1.1.2/ 1.1.3

If you install any mod, it can break tutorials. Tutorials are kind of special when comes to moding.
If you want to go trough tutorials you should do that without any mod installed.

That was known issue for all previous versions of KSP.

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3 hours ago, Ilya said:

Yeah, I've isolated the problem to a compatibility issue between Kopernicus and Küchemann (specifically). There's no doubt that those two are causing the issue.

@Ilya I experience this bug now and I am still running the previous version of FAR: v0.15.6.5 "Knudsen", so I don't believe that it is new to Küchemann, or even necessarily related to FAR.

Edited by Wedgenet
@

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Just now, Wedgenet said:

I experience this bug now and I am still running the previous version of FAR: v0.15.6.5 "Knudsen", so I don't believe that it is new to Küchemann, or even necessarily related to FAR.

I found the real issue thanks to the Kopernicus thread. It's actually Modular Flight Integrator. It seems that kuchermann came with an old version of it that still had the bug. Just go in the MFI thread and download the newest one.

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5 hours ago, Ilya said:

I found the real issue thanks to the Kopernicus thread. It's actually Modular Flight Integrator. It seems that kuchermann came with an old version of it that still had the bug. Just go in the MFI thread and download the newest one.

Solution confirmed. I was having the same issue, gone now. Thanks.

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