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[1.11.x] SystemHeat - a replacement for the CoreHeat system (March 26th)


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Hello, I've noticed a few UI issues appearing after installing System Heat. In addition to System Heat, I'm also using Near Future Electronics, and Near Future propulsions. After installing System Heat, I also added the Nuclear Reactor Configuration and Nuclear Engine Configuration. Here's a screenshot of my CKAN configuration so you can see what mods are installed. I'm running KSP 1.11.1.3066.

qfguwIJ.png

When looking at the Systems Manager, the nuclear reactor doesn't seem to contribute power for these calculations. I'm not sure if there's an option I missed, but no matter what I do to the reactor I can't seem to get it to show anything more than zero. This tool is very useful for figuring out the high power-consumption engines, so this no longer working makes building require a lot more cross-checking. Worth mentioning is that during flight, this does work correctly.

r7LreNA.png

I run the game in 1920x1200, and when I click on the toolbar button for heat, it the values get clipped off the edge of the screen.  I can click and drag the toolbar to the left to momentarily see what's on there, but as soon as I let go, it snaps back and can no longer be read. I think I'd prefer if this was a standalone window.

4rmeKjr.png

After installing System Heat, the Reactor Control Panel that I was used to seeing from Near Future Electrics doesn't seem accessible. Instead, it's been replaced by the nuclear button on the toolbar. This one doesn't have many options or information as I recall the old toolbar having, but the biggest issue is that I cannot view the System Heat and reactor control bar at the same time. These two things are pretty heavily related, so seeing both at once is very valuable.

BaaAdab.png

Edited by Why485
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Thank you for the useful feedback!

On 2/27/2021 at 1:18 PM, Why485 said:

When looking at the Systems Manager, the nuclear reactor doesn't seem to contribute power for these calculations. I'm not sure if there's an option I missed, but no matter what I do to the reactor I can't seem to get it to show anything more than zero. This tool is very useful for figuring out the high power-consumption engines, so this no longer working makes building require a lot more cross-checking. Worth mentioning is that during flight, this does work correctly

Yes, a small bug to solve.

On 2/27/2021 at 1:18 PM, Why485 said:

run the game in 1920x1200, and when I click on the toolbar button for heat, it the values get clipped off the edge of the screen.  I can click and drag the toolbar to the left to momentarily see what's on there, but as soon as I let go, it snaps back and can no longer be read. I think I'd prefer if this was a standalone window

It seems to work ok for me at 1920*1080, I'll have to look at this. I have come to really, really dislike floating windows though, so I will not be changing that.

On 2/27/2021 at 1:18 PM, Why485 said:

After installing System Heat, the Reactor Control Panel that I was used to seeing from Near Future Electrics doesn't seem accessible. Instead, it's been replaced by the nuclear button on the toolbar. This one doesn't have many options or information as I recall the old toolbar having, but the biggest issue is that I cannot view the System Heat and reactor control bar at the same time. These two things are pretty heavily related, so seeing both at once is very valuable

It's important to note that most of that information was fairly pointless and unused. The goal was to significantly reduce the amount of player micromanagement required to use reactors. If there's more information needed, please describe the use case and I will probably work on engineering that out of the mod. 

 

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3 hours ago, Nertea said:

It seems to work ok for me at 1920*1080, I'll have to look at this. I have come to really, really dislike floating windows though, so I will not be changing that.

Thanks for the reply! I don't think it's so much my resolution as it is that at the time I had so few things on the toolbar. Now that I have more mods installed, I can comfortably read it. It's an edge case (literally!), but maybe if the pop ups could be aligned by their right edge, it could prevent the issue from happening.

PEFmi5e.png

3 hours ago, Nertea said:

It's important to note that most of that information was fairly pointless and unused. The goal was to significantly reduce the amount of player micromanagement required to use reactors. If there's more information needed, please describe the use case and I will probably work on engineering that out of the mod. 

wAXt740.png

xsnjkxS.png

  1. The temperature readout that showed a range where the operator works nominally was really nice to have. I think this mechanic is still in place, but I didn't test in detail, so maybe it's not. Either way it's not really apparent unless you are very closely watching the power generated value on the new panel.
  2. Having a quick way to dial in reactor power was useful because you could more carefully manage a reactor to stay within the appropriate heat levels. You can still do this, but now you need to click on the reactor itself, check manual control, and then do it with that little slider instead. I also really liked being able to run the reactor at lower power levels, because it extended the life of it, though that mechanic seems to have been removed. The auto setting doesn't work as well as I'd like (e.g. not automatically going to full power when something super power hungry like an engine starts running) so I manually set the power to max myself. I really liked having that slider so easily accessible.
  3. While not needed per se, it was nice having quick options for the auto-shutdown and when auto-hibernation kicks in.
  4. A minor thing that I didn't notice until I took these screenshots: it was more intuitive that how much power the reactor was generating in the old popup since it outright said EC/s instead of kW. I kept on clicking on the reactor to see the power output that way instead.

It seems that the two panels overlapping was similarly caused by having so few buttons on my toolbar. Now that I have more mods and stuff cluttering it up, they are spaced out such that I can see both at the same time. I'm not really sure how you handle that kind of edge case, but yeah. That seemed to have been the cause.

Edited by Why485
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It seems like there were a lot of things added in to this that, while cool, were not really connected to heat... I am trying to figure out why all of the nuclear reactor changes were added here and not in Near Future Electric and Kerbal Atomics... 

On 3/3/2021 at 6:01 PM, Nertea said:

It seems to work ok for me at 1920*1080, I'll have to look at this. I have come to really, really dislike floating windows though, so I will not be changing that.

Umm ok...  the problem I found with this is that having the windows anchored to the toolbar icon really limits the amount of info that can be shown on screen.  And as soon as you get a couple of reactors and heat loops on the same vessel its really difficult to manage.  As it stands I am not sure why I would ever use the "Installed Reactors" control... 

The reactor management requiring eva kerbals and special containers seemed to add significant micro management, that while interesting the first time I did it I can see would quickly become more of a headache than it is worth...

 

I really wanted to love this mod but it was just too game breaking to an existing save to stomach...   will have to revisit down the road once it has a bit more polish and I am looking to start a new save.

 

 

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On 3/3/2021 at 7:04 PM, Why485 said:

Thanks for the reply! I don't think it's so much my resolution as it is that at the time I had so few things on the toolbar. Now that I have more mods installed, I can comfortably read it. It's an edge case (literally!), but maybe if the pop ups could be aligned by their right edge, it could prevent the issue from happening.

I'm doing that, but I do have to at some point figure out how to make the UI obey the app toolbar scaling rules correctly. 

On 3/3/2021 at 7:04 PM, Why485 said:
  • Having a quick way to dial in reactor power was useful because you could more carefully manage a reactor to stay within the appropriate heat levels. You can still do this, but now you need to click on the reactor itself, check manual control, and then do it with that little slider instead. I also really liked being able to run the reactor at lower power levels, because it extended the life of it, though that mechanic seems to have been removed. The auto setting doesn't work as well as I'd like (e.g. not automatically going to full power when something super power hungry like an engine starts running) so I manually set the power to max myself. I really liked having that slider so easily accessible.

Yeah that mechanic is gone. It was not what I wanted, to be able to instantly adjust power from 0-100 when the whole point was to make fission reactors slowly adjusting. Your insight did make me see a bunch of ways using the manual option that got around my plans though, so those will be fixed. :)

On 3/3/2021 at 7:04 PM, Why485 said:
  1. A minor thing that I didn't notice until I took these screenshots: it was more intuitive that how much power the reactor was generating in the old popup since it outright said EC/s instead of kW. I kept on clicking on the reactor to see the power output that way instead.

 

I suppose that's fair. I've been working with the 1 kW = 1EC thing for so long that I may have underestimated how other people would see it. Easy change.

41 minutes ago, Basto said:

It seems like there were a lot of things added in to this that, while cool, were not really connected to heat... I am trying to figure out why all of the nuclear reactor changes were added here and not in Near Future Electric and Kerbal Atomics... 

Can you imagine the whining, teeth gnashing and hair pulling if I did? The reactors stuff is in the dev forum, quite hidden from sight, and an optional patch, so I can work on it and test gameplay things without every NFE user pitching a fit! When everything is stable and I am happy, it may be rolled out into mainline.    

53 minutes ago, Basto said:

Umm ok...  the problem I found with this is that having the windows anchored to the toolbar icon really limits the amount of info that can be shown on screen.  And as soon as you get a couple of reactors and heat loops on the same vessel its really difficult to manage.  As it stands I am not sure why I would ever use the "Installed Reactors" control... 

I don't want info shown on screen, that's not the goal here. The information should be simple, minimal and intuitive. In an ideal world, there shouldn't be a need to open and close windows or monitor things add nauseum. These are supposed to be design constraints, not operational constraints. 

47 minutes ago, Basto said:

The reactor management requiring eva kerbals and special containers seemed to add significant micro management, that while interesting the first time I did it I can see would quickly become more of a headache than it is worth...

 

Yes unfortunately some peculiarities of the stock inventory system haven't let me develop this as I wanted it. However, the old system I felt was super clunky and wanted something better. 

The main issue right now is that you need to make a lot of trips because kerbals aren't very strong. This is perhaps reasonable but not fun. 
 

37 minutes ago, Basto said:

I really wanted to love this mod but it was just too game breaking to an existing save to stomach...   will have to revisit down the road once it has a bit more polish and I am looking to start a new save.

I do like it when I can quote the FAQ:

Quote

Q: Can I add this to a save in progress?
A: Yes, if you use the base mod. However, if you use any of the Extra packages to adjust existing converters, reactors, and such, your existing vessels might overheat as the balance is different and the gameplay paradigms are not identical. 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Nertea said:

I do like it when I can quote the FAQ:

Q: Can I add this to a save in progress?
A: Yes, if you use the base mod. However, if you use any of the Extra packages to adjust existing converters, reactors, and such, your existing vessels might overheat as the balance is different and the gameplay paradigms are not identical. 

Its a totally fair point :lol: and after rereading my post I may have come across a bit crankier than intended.  I think what I meant to say is that I really like the way this is going... and am hopeful that by the time I am ready to give up on my 50+ year career save and start fresh this will have all of the polish that your other excellent mods have.

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So I'm having a problem with the XR-500 and XR-600 radiators, namely, that when they break off in the atmosphere it completely brings the game to a standstill, and I'm getting about 1 frame per 4 seconds.  I have a fairly beefy setup.  I put these on sacrificial stages, or I de-orbit the vessels, but as soon as they blow off the vessel, performance drops to where the game is unusable.

I'm going to take a guess in that this results from the game needing to handle the physics and aerodynamics of the 8 billion little pieces that come off as they disintegrate.  The particular stage I'm using  has 8 XR-500's and the same number of XR-600's.

Is there any way to have these parts meet their aerodynamic demise with more grace?  Could they break off in one part?  They're just flotsam at that point anyway.

 

Cheers!

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On 3/5/2021 at 12:37 PM, Basto said:

Its a totally fair point :lol: and after rereading my post I may have come across a bit crankier than intended.  I think what I meant to say is that I really like the way this is going... and am hopeful that by the time I am ready to give up on my 50+ year career save and start fresh this will have all of the polish that your other excellent mods have.

Yes it may not be visible at this point, but NFE has gone through 2 rewrites and at least one gameplay refresh during its life with countless small improvements. Somewhat optimistic to think I'll get there in one iteration...

23 hours ago, barfing_skull said:

So I'm having a problem with the XR-500 and XR-600 radiators, namely, that when they break off in the atmosphere it completely brings the game to a standstill, and I'm getting about 1 frame per 4 seconds.  I have a fairly beefy setup.  I put these on sacrificial stages, or I de-orbit the vessels, but as soon as they blow off the vessel, performance drops to where the game is unusable.

I'm going to take a guess in that this results from the game needing to handle the physics and aerodynamics of the 8 billion little pieces that come off as they disintegrate.  The particular stage I'm using  has 8 XR-500's and the same number of XR-600's.

Is there any way to have these parts meet their aerodynamic demise with more grace?  Could they break off in one part?  They're just flotsam at that point anyway.

 

Cheers!

Hmm, I have a fairly pitiful setup and I don't see these issues. Tried a little drop test with smashing 8 XR-600s on the launchpad with no issues. They don't have a significantly larger object count than say, the large stock radiators. 

Post a log of the event, perhaps.

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SystemHeat 0.3.8

  • Fixed fission reactor manual control not respecting minimum reactor throttles
  • Fixed fission reactor catchup not adding waste to reactor and only consuming fuel
  • Fixed fission reactor power generation not being shown in DBS planning UI
  • Fixed fission reactor manual control slider not appearing in editor
  • Normalized fission reactor warm-up rates to 5%/second for power reactors and 10%/second for propulsion reactors
  • Fixed flickering loops when only one SH part is present in a loop and loop rendering is turned on
  • Fixed loops being recreated and destroyed many many times per frame in certain cases
  • System Heat toolbar in the Editor is now pinned to its Right side
  • Normalized System Heat toolbar text element sizes to align with stock
  • Fixed a null reference exception when switching vessels within the same scene to one that has no SystemHeat parts
  • Fixed Horrible Things happening when switching vessels within the same scene to one that has no SystemHeat parts and having the overlay open
  • Changed power displays from kW to Ec/s
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Hia @Nertea,

Finest work, one of my prefered modder :)

I've updated OPT to the latest version and ended up with an issue.

I've posted the details here :

It seems to be caused caused by System Heat, I should precise here that I didn't install any additional configuration available.

Please let me know if I can do something from my end to resolve :)

 

Thank you !

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11 minutes ago, Demcrew said:

It seems to be caused caused by System Heat, I should precise here that I didn't install any additional configuration available.

This new issue is due to my expecting that users would have System Heat's generic extras patch that changes all supported ModuleResourceConverter into ModuleSystemHeatConverter. The errors point at my patch for a B9PS module that changes the options of an EC-consuming converter in the Dark Drive engine.

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Hia @JadeOfMaar, sorry didn't want to bug you more yesterday night...

I've indeed realised you were talking about the additional configs, proposed by @Nertea, but far later.

Assuming B9PartSwitch is a heavily used one, I'm surprised not seeing anyone reporting this issue.

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@Nertea, I don't know if this is a function of NFE or SystemHeat, but I'll post here since it came up as I was testing out SH 0.3.8, with all the Extras installed, NFE 1.2.1, and Heat Control 0.6.0 radiators:

- I'm seeing my NFE reactors all default to Enabled upon launch (I haven't tried KA engines yet).  This is problematic if radiators are not actually active at that time, because the cores destroy themselves within seconds.  There's no Reactor Enable/Disable button in the PAW while in the VAB, only in flight, so I can't launch the reactor in a shut down state.  I tried to set the Auto Shutdown Temp to a level lower than operating temp, but that didn't work.  I've done this with various reactors on a Station Core with a giant stack of unfilled batteries (just to watch the Auto Power setting in action), with and without radiators attached, and with and without the radiators deployed/activated.

- System Temperature doesn't change with power level.  Assuming there's enough radiator capacity, it'll run to max nominal operating temp regardless of Power Setting.  I'm trying to logic out the thermodynamics of this.  Electricity production varies with Power Setting, as does the Core Life clock (although it's not actually extending the clock time, like it used to, at lower power settings, it's just counting down at at lower rate) and EnrU consumption as well.  Presumably, if EnrU is getting burned at different rates, corresponding amounts of heat are getting dissipated somewhere in the chain - reactor, generator, electricity consuming part - which the radiators still have to deal with.  But the radiators aren't showing any variation with reactor power either.

- I've clicked the button and looked through the SH and NFE Wikis and I still can't figure it out - what does the reactor hibernation mode do?

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46 minutes ago, KSPrynk said:

- I'm seeing my NFE reactors all default to Enabled upon launch (I haven't tried KA engines yet).  This is problematic if radiators are not actually active at that time, because the cores destroy themselves within seconds.  There's no Reactor Enable/Disable button in the PAW while in the VAB, only in flight, so I can't launch the reactor in a shut down state.  I tried to set the Auto Shutdown Temp to a level lower than operating temp, but that didn't work.  I've done this with various reactors on a Station Core with a giant stack of unfilled batteries (just to watch the Auto Power setting in action), with and without radiators attached, and with and without the radiators deployed/activated.

Hmm I will check this out, I know this wasn't the case in 0.3.7, but maybe there was a regression.

47 minutes ago, KSPrynk said:

- System Temperature doesn't change with power level.  Assuming there's enough radiator capacity, it'll run to max nominal operating temp regardless of Power Setting.  I'm trying to logic out the thermodynamics of this.  Electricity production varies with Power Setting, as does the Core Life clock (although it's not actually extending the clock time, like it used to, at lower power settings, it's just counting down at at lower rate) and EnrU consumption as well.  Presumably, if EnrU is getting burned at different rates, corresponding amounts of heat are getting dissipated somewhere in the chain - reactor, generator, electricity consuming part - which the radiators still have to deal with.  But the radiators aren't showing any variation with reactor power either.

Assume the best way to run the reactor is at nominal temp (good assumption, gives best radiator performance). Reaction rate in the core will control the amount of heat added to the coolant, so increasing power level increases heat -> increases amount of heat to be removed by the coolant -> increases coolant flow rate -> increases amount of heat radiators must handle. Coolant temperature increases only if there is an equilibrium problem. On the generator side, increasing coolant flow at the same temp means the exchanger is adding more flux to the steam loop, which means more steam generation, which means more electrical power. 

It's a more or less good simplification. 

47 minutes ago, KSPrynk said:

- I've clicked the button and looked through the SH and NFE Wikis and I still can't figure it out - what does the reactor hibernation mode do?

  • Added Hibernate On Warp control to fission reactors: if activated, an enabled reactor will turn off when the ship goes on rails. It will reactivate when the ship goes off rails.
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On 3/7/2021 at 2:13 PM, Nertea said:

Hmm, I have a fairly pitiful setup and I don't see these issues. Tried a little drop test with smashing 8 XR-600s on the launchpad with no issues. They don't have a significantly larger object count than say, the large stock radiators. 

Post a log of the event, perhaps.

I'd only seen it on re-entry before, but a launchpad test produced the same problem when I hooked up the drive section with the nuclear salt water engine and the radiators to something that would at least launch.  I found a lot of these in the KSP.log at the time this was happening:

[EXC 09:38:11.820] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)
[EXC 09:38:12.235] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)
[EXC 09:38:12.650] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)
[EXC 09:38:13.067] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)

As an aside, I'm on 1.11.1, Linux, with a bunch of other mods as well.

 

Cheers!

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26 minutes ago, barfing_skull said:

I'd only seen it on re-entry before, but a launchpad test produced the same problem when I hooked up the drive section with the nuclear salt water engine and the radiators to something that would at least launch.  I found a lot of these in the KSP.log at the time this was happening:

[EXC 09:38:11.820] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)
[EXC 09:38:12.235] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)
[EXC 09:38:12.650] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)
[EXC 09:38:13.067] NullReferenceException
	UnityEngine.Renderer.get_material () (at <7d9ec060e791409ab3eb85c61e312ed6>:0)
	SystemHeat.ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator.Update () (at <c7392b4010df46a7af1d4bc1aaa6002c>:0)

As an aside, I'm on 1.11.1, Linux, with a bunch of other mods as well.

 

Cheers!

Hmm, I can see from the code why that might happen, but not certain why I don't see it, Maybe linux thing. I'll see about a fix. 

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Hi all. i am very confused while using this mod..I have the 1.11.1 version of ksp..Today I downloaded this mod. I ve read thst there are new radiators etc..The confusing thing is thst part of the mod is working. I can use system heat etc but i can't see ANY new radiator parts. I ve uninstalled the game, freshly installed it and put only this mod in the Gamedata folder (thinking that there was a conflict with other mods).But nothing..no new parts.I began a new sandbox mode but there is nothing there. Only the system heta tab at the low right corner shows up and works correctly   but mothing new shows up.Am i doing something wrong?

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2 hours ago, Confusedbob117 said:

Hi all. i am very confused while using this mod..I have the 1.11.1 version of ksp..Today I downloaded this mod. I ve read thst there are new radiators etc..The confusing thing is thst part of the mod is working. I can use system heat etc but i can't see ANY new radiator parts. I ve uninstalled the game, freshly installed it and put only this mod in the Gamedata folder (thinking that there was a conflict with other mods).But nothing..no new parts.I began a new sandbox mode but there is nothing there. Only the system heta tab at the low right corner shows up and works correctly   but mothing new shows up.Am i doing something wrong?

SystemHeat does not add radiators, it just changes the mechanics behind them. The radiator parts you are most likely come from a different Nertea mod, Heat Control.

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On 3/9/2021 at 8:14 PM, Nertea said:

Hmm, I can see from the code why that might happen, but not certain why I don't see it, Maybe linux thing. I'll see about a fix. 

I'm with system heat 0.3.9, still getting the same NullReferenceException after returning from EVA to a craft. (also using heat control, far future technology and most of the near-future mods).
 

P.S. I worked around it by saving the game in EVA, quitting the game, relaunching and reloading.

Edited by Omeran
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18 hours ago, Omeran said:

I'm with system heat 0.3.9, still getting the same NullReferenceException after returning from EVA to a craft. (also using heat control, far future technology and most of the near-future mods).
 

P.S. I worked around it by saving the game in EVA, quitting the game, relaunching and reloading.

I can't reproduce this, can you detail it? Logs, specific events, repro steps.

SystemHeat 0.3.10

  • Improvements to Russian localization form r4nd0m
  • Potential fix for stack of exceptions when radiators broke sometimes
  • Tweaked radiator thermal emission values to look less obnoxious in everyday operation

@barfing_skull I can't reproduce your issue but this *might* fix it, please let me know

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hi, great mod and has helped me a lot in building my long distance vessel. I would like to ask, and I'm sorry if it has already been asked, but how exactly do the coolant tanks work? I have a couple placed on my vessel but they show up *I think* as though they will overheat. could you kindly look at my screenshot and tell me what is required for coolant tanks to be stable. thanks!

UEMq1DS.png

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2 minutes ago, si2504 said:

hi, great mod and has helped me a lot in building my long distance vessel. I would like to ask, and I'm sorry if it has already been asked, but how exactly do the coolant tanks work? I have a couple placed on my vessel but they show up *I think* as though they will overheat. could you kindly look at my screenshot and tell me what is required for coolant tanks to be stable. thanks!

UEMq1DS.png

The coolant tanks merely increase the loop volume. This increases the amount of time it takes for the loop to heat up.
 

If you want to keep the loop from overheating, you need radiators. Based on the SystemHeat UI, you have enough heat rejection. I’m not sure what issues you’re having. 

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Just now, Spaceman.Spiff said:

The coolant tanks merely increase the loop volume. This increases the amount of time it takes for the loop to heat up.
 

If you want to keep the loop from overheating, you need radiators. Based on the SystemHeat UI, you have enough heat rejection. I’m not sure what issues you’re having. 

that's what I thought which is why I wondered why the coolant tanks show up the overheat icons...

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