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[1.12.x] SystemHeat - a replacement for the CoreHeat system (October 9)


Nertea
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11 hours ago, modus said:

Have you alt-right clicked?

I've tried it of course, but you might be onto something here. With KSP running on Linux, RShift replaces any use of Alt. e.g. the cheats menu is RShift+F12. Completely guessing, but perhaps the game process can't receive the Alt keydown signal for some reason, forcing the devs to use a different key.

Is it possible this is the problem @Nertea -- some code listening for an Alt keypress it will never be able to receive?

Please believe me though, I've tried every combination of clicking I can think of - right, left, Shift, Alt, RShift... :confused:. There are simply no fuel transfer options showing up anywhere for these nuclear parts.

 

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On 12/13/2021 at 9:40 AM, Electrosynthesis said:

I've tried it of course, but you might be onto something here. With KSP running on Linux, RShift replaces any use of Alt. e.g. the cheats menu is RShift+F12. Completely guessing, but perhaps the game process can't receive the Alt keydown signal for some reason, forcing the devs to use a different key.

Is it possible this is the problem @Nertea -- some code listening for an Alt keypress it will never be able to receive?

Please believe me though, I've tried every combination of clicking I can think of - right, left, Shift, Alt, RShift... :confused:. There are simply no fuel transfer options showing up anywhere for these nuclear parts.

 

Shouldn't be that. It's just the normal fuel transfer system that all the rest of KSP uses, so if you can use that, you can use this.

In terms of why it's not working, do you have the settings option for "Fuel Transfer obey crossfeed rules" enabled?

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19 hours ago, Nertea said:

In terms of why it's not working, do you have the settings option for "Fuel Transfer obey crossfeed rules" enabled?

Aha! That's it! Nuclear fuel transfer is working when that option is off, and not working when it's on. Regular fuel transfer is working as expected in both instances.

Here's a screenshot of my test craft (only NFE and System Heat installed here). I don't really see how crossfeed rules should prevent this transfer, unless I'm drastically mistaken?

 

DKRxsje.png

 

At any rate, as far as I'm concerned it's problem solved. I can just turn off that setting and get on with things. Your help and patience is much appreciated! Thanks once again for making these awesome mods, my main save is practically Nertea Space Program at this point :D

 

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21 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

 

On 12/17/2021 at 6:50 AM, Electrosynthesis said:

Aha! That's it! Nuclear fuel transfer is working when that option is off, and not working when it's on. Regular fuel transfer is working as expected in both instances.

Here's a screenshot of my test craft (only NFE and System Heat installed here). I don't really see how crossfeed rules should prevent this transfer, unless I'm drastically mistaken?

 

DKRxsje.png

 

At any rate, as far as I'm concerned it's problem solved. I can just turn off that setting and get on with things. Your help and patience is much appreciated! Thanks once again for making these awesome mods, my main save is practically Nertea Space Program at this point :D

 

Glad that solved it. The fuel transfer system changes the transfer rules for nuclear fuel in the appropriate times. 

When you have the 'use crossfeed rules'  setting on, KSP uses the 'can fuel flow' rules instead of the 'can fuel be transferred' rules. Because nuclear fuels can never flow, this bypasses the system. I can't really override the 'can fuel flow' rule, because that would have fairly weird consequences. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been thinking about coolant tanks a bit. In the interest of keeping parts count low, wouldn't it be practical to introduce larger coolant tanks? High-temp, short burst usage applications could probably do better simply dumping all that heat into coolant mass, to be slowly radiated away on normally-insufficient radiators. Doesn't seem too hard to make, just dupe some fuel tank, remove the fuel module, up the weight considering the total volume, and slap in the 'ModuleSystemHeat' module in with the right parameters. Before I go fiddling, did anyone else try this before? Putting on an orange tank's worth of coolant into the mix oughta do something at least.

Edited by Axelord FTW
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On 12/19/2021 at 2:10 PM, dave1904 said:

The system heat SystemHeatFissionReactors patch does not work with tac life support backround resource calculations because it changes the module I assume. Can this be fixed somehow with a patch? I do not want to play with reactors without systemheat. 

 

On 12/30/2021 at 6:07 AM, Axelord FTW said:

I've been thinking about coolant tanks a bit. In the interest of keeping parts count low, wouldn't it be practical to introduce larger coolant tanks? High-temp, short burst usage applications could probably do better simply dumping all that heat into coolant mass, to be slowly radiated away on normally-insufficient radiators. Doesn't seem too hard to make, just dupe some fuel tank, remove the fuel module, up the weight considering the total volume, and slap in the 'ModuleSystemHeat' module in with the right parameters. Before I go fiddling, did anyone else try this before? Putting on an orange tank's worth of coolant into the mix oughta do something at least.

Yes you can do this, it is pretty easy to do. You may find that I have fudged the coolant tanks' volume already to be higher.

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Yep. A cylindrical-ish tank with bulged ends* (of 4m flat length and 2m diameter) will give you about 14.66m3 of volume, which is very close to the 15m3 volume the coolant tank in the mod has. It's obvious the tank model isn't that big, however, so I just assumed the coolant volume metric is just different altogether in the mod to keep every relative changes in line (screw trying to figure out the coolant ratio volume in the piping). I already made 120m3 and a 960m3 tanks for testing. (i.e. for 8Lx4d and 16Lx8d volumes), so each double the size of the previous (resize factor being 2 and 4). Dry weight likewise following the same trend (though not perfectly since pressure container wall thickness doesn't increase linearly with size, assuming the internal pressure stay constant). I gave them a 5% and 7.5% decrease mass from 'nominal' each.

So far, testing has been going well.

*(precisely a 'Horizontal 2:1 Elliptical with 2:1 semi elliptical tank heads' tank is what I used for calculating)

EDIT: As for heat exchangers, could it be possible to also upscale them? Would there be a point, even? Rescaling and changing the internal volume would be easy, but would that change how much heat it can transfer? Might the efficiency keys be softened or something?

Edited by Axelord FTW
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I tested the Resource Harvester Configuration addon again today (in KSP 1.12.2.3167) to see if anything has changed, just in case. It hasn't. I've created a ticket on GitHub, too https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/SystemHeat/issues/91

For those who don't know, SystemHeat doesn't work with modded drills (for example with SME) because the Resource Harvester Config addon is broken (don't install it).

 

Edited by Krzeszny
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So, after a ton of tweaking, I have a collection of USI-System Heat compatibility patches   that are somewhat balanced. 

Spoiler

I3rnDfy.png

6cQw2XA.png

BTQowbU.png

Balance is based on the sm. folding radiator - you should need the same amount of radiators with or without this patch. The exception is the ATLAS harvesters - their heat production values were weirdly low in stock.

  • 1.25M parts need 1
  • 2.5m converters need 4/bay, drills need 2
  • 3.75m converters need 12/bay, drills need 4
  • Sm. Atlas Harvesters need 8
  • Lg. Atlas Harvesters need 20

 

Swap Options, etc, all work as expected. I've been playing with it for a bit, and things seem to be working as expected

Obviously, this would be game-breaking to anyone who already has extensive USI infrastructure built out.

Should I submit these as a PR to System Heat, or is the USI repo the place for these to live?

Edited by AtomicRocketBooster
Updated with pictures, better description.
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So how does ModuleSystemHeatBaseConverterAdapter work?  I've been attempting to use it with WBI Omniconverters which from what I can tell is  derived from ModuleResourceConverter. 

How is the module it is linked to specified? I assumed looking at the code it was the converterModuleIndex parameter, being the module index from 0 to n.  I tried multiple values each time with no luck giving errors like this: 

[ModuleSystemHeatBaseConverterAdapter]: Module at index 0 is not a BaseConverter on part Part

 

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This might be a dumb question - however I only see a small sub-set of the available radiators doing anything in respect to SystemHeat. Further, their dissipation characteristics appears unaffected by their size - e.g. a 10% sized large system performs just as well as a 400% sized one. 

-Is the expectation not that there would be a raft of radiators that could work with this mechanic?

-Would they not scale with size? (having 200 10% sized radiators doesn't do any favours for frame rates)

-What is the most likely culprit here? Incompatibility with other mods, or...?

 

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There seems to be a problem on the editor when clicking on the button. It does not calculate the generation and rejection. Or am I doing something stupid?

It only happens in the editor. It works as expected when I launch the craft.

PTK2nFv.png

List of installed mods (the "SystemHeatExtras" contains all the files from the extras folder of the mod):

Spoiler

B9PartSwitch
CommunityResourcePack
CryoTanks
DeployableEngines
DynamicBatteryStorage
FarFutureTechnologies
ModuleManager.4.2.1.dll
NearFutureElectrical
NearFuturePropulsion
NearFutureSolar
SpaceDust
Squad
SystemHeat
SystemHeatExtras
Waterfall

EDIT: Tried to run KSP with ONLY SystemHeat and the problem persists.

Edited by mateusviccari
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3 hours ago, mateusviccari said:

There seems to be a problem on the editor when clicking on the button. It does not calculate the generation and rejection. Or am I doing something stupid?

It only happens in the editor. It works as expected when I launch the craft.

PTK2nFv.png

List of installed mods (the "SystemHeatExtras" contains all the files from the extras folder of the mod):

  Reveal hidden contents

B9PartSwitch
CommunityResourcePack
CryoTanks
DeployableEngines
DynamicBatteryStorage
FarFutureTechnologies
ModuleManager.4.2.1.dll
NearFutureElectrical
NearFuturePropulsion
NearFutureSolar
SpaceDust
Squad
SystemHeat
SystemHeatExtras
Waterfall

EDIT: Tried to run KSP with ONLY SystemHeat and the problem persists.

Have you tried clicking on the additional option "Simulate (fuel production here)"?

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Just now, Zelda said:

Have you also turned on the converter in the editor via the PAW? I might be remembering incorrectly but I think you need to enable anything that generates heat in order for the simulation to run.

 

Just now, Davi SDF said:

Have you tried clicking on the additional option "Simulate (fuel production here)"?

OMG sorry guys, turns out I was just being stupid using KSP version 1.10 - updated to 1.12.1 and it works now.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Is anybody using SystemHeat/NFE in conjunction with the MK2 stockalike expansion? I'm running into issues with the Mk.2 Reactor, which apparently produces "-500 kW" of waste heat and crashes the game when used in conjuntion with other parts like ISRUs (which might have something to do with teh heatflux not being a number). Anybody having similar issues or know how to fix this?

13vjus.jpg2scjf7.jpg

 

Edited by krautbernd12
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23 hours ago, Draconiator said:

Question - This was installed with Far Future Tech as a dependency...but it seems that SH does NOT like time warps for some reason.  Whenever I auto-timewarp, the craft explodes.  How do I fix this?

Never seen that at all. There's in fact practically nothing in SH that can cause explosions. Please create a reproducible test case.

11 hours ago, krautbernd12 said:

Is anybody using SystemHeat/NFE in conjunction with the MK2 stockalike expansion? I'm running into issues with the Mk.2 Reactor, which apparently produces "-500 kW" of waste heat and crashes the game when used in conjuntion with other parts like ISRUs (which might have something to do with teh heatflux not being a number). Anybody having similar issues or know how to fix this?

13vjus.jpg2scjf7.jpg

 

I don't support that part so the dev of that mod will need to look into what they are doing wrong.

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10 hours ago, Nertea said:

I don't support that part so the dev of that mod will need to look into what they are doing wrong.

Just trying to make sure it's not something on my end. Looking at the config the HeatGeneration entry might be invalid - it's not a curve but a single value. Unfortunately the github repository is missing documentation for ModuleSystemHeatFissionReactor and the other modules. I have been able to "fix" this manually by adding the missing entry, but I don't what else I might be missing - or for that matter why the in-game value for heat generation is lower than the one in the config.

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Update:

Something was borked with my System Heat install.

Nuked it from orbit ( or at least from my GameData folder ), and re-installed a fresh downloaded copy, and it's all working as expected.

I have loops, I have heat generators, I no longer have explody kraken vessels.

Not sure exactly what went wrong where, but a re-install of the SH mod seems to have corrected whatever it was.

----- Original Message for Posterity -----

Looking for some help on where to begin trying to debug why I'm only seeing a portion of System Heat.

KSP 1.12.3 w/ JNSQ + RationalResources plus lots of part packs like all of the Restock, Near Future, Far Future families, plus Planetary Base systems.  No Life Support mods anywhere, just parts and helpers ( Engineer, MJ ).

I'm seeing the System Heat entries on the radiator parts and the NF radiators, but I do not see System Heat entries on any of the heat generators ( Reactors, ISRUs, Drills, Nuke Engines, etc. ).  I get the system heat UI which will show me loops, but in the VAB they are all 0's, no matter what I add.  I have SH loop ids in the PAW for radiators, but again, not on any of the heat generators.

I have some custom patches to add the RationalResource conversion chains to the PBS drills and ISRU, but even if that is hosing up those, it doesn't touch engines or reactors, which likewise seem to be impacted/missing the System Heat entries.

I have combed through the logfiles, and nothing is jumping out as a red flag to me, so looking for pointers if anyone else has encountered this, and whether anyone is successfully using System Heat with JNSQ + RR in 1.12.3.

Edited by coredumpster
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  • 3 weeks later...

So I installed SystemHeat, SpaceDust, and FFT a few days ago to try them out, and see if they're stable in my current mod configuration (now that there's a partial Kerbalism patch for FFT).

Anyways, today I got a NullReferenceException in SystemHeat.SystemHeatEditor.FixedUpdate(), after it finished loading the settings, and apparently while it was loading assets (unless there is a stage that there isn't a log message about). If I'm understanding this log correctly, this was while I was entering the VAB? I was working on a ship without any SystemHeat components, but most of my existing ships don't have them either. That probably has nothing to do with it, however, looking at the code. It looks like the only way it could throw a NRE there is if one of SystemHeatUI.Instance or SystemHeatUI.Instance.toolbarPanel are null when FixedUpdate is called (Presumably, by random chance, they hadn't been set up yet).

When I went to launch the rocket I was working on, GravityTurn (GravityTurn Continued, to be precise) failed to work properly - The UI appeared and the launch button worked, but that's about it. It shows no errors or exceptions in the log, and I've never seen it do this before, so I'm thinking it's because these exceptions crashed the thread(s) it ran on. I tried returning to the main menu and reloading my game to see if that would fix it, but it didn't. I guess that doesn't reset crashed thread(s).

If you want the full KSP.log, let me know - I've made a copy of it so it doesn't get overwritten. (I don't see a button on the post interface to upload it, and I don't remember what I did last time, since it's been months since I last posted here.)

[LOG 14:42:58.584] [SystemHeat][Settings]: Started loading
[LOG 14:42:58.584] [SystemHeat][Settings]: Located settings file
[LOG 14:42:58.585] [SystemHeat][Settings]: Loading coolant types 
[LOG 14:42:58.586] [SystemHeat][Settings]: Loaded coolant Basic Coolant: Density 1000, heat Capacity 4
[LOG 14:42:58.586] [SystemHeat][Settings]: Loaded coolant types
[LOG 14:42:58.586] [SystemHeat][Settings]: Finished loading
[ERR 14:42:58.586] Cannot find config in file : WATERFALL_SETTINGS

[LOG 14:42:58.586] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Started loading
[LOG 14:42:58.586] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Loading models
[LOG 14:42:58.586] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Loaded 18 models
[LOG 14:42:58.586] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Loading textures
[LOG 14:42:58.587] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Loaded 28 textures
[LOG 14:42:58.587] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Loading shaders
[LOG 14:42:58.588] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Loaded 11 shaders
[LOG 14:42:58.588] [Waterfall][Asset Library]: Finished loading
[EXC 14:42:58.589] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	SystemHeat.SystemHeatEditor.FixedUpdate () (at <faa8f438e27f4148b7041ce82be5b9c9>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)
[LOG 14:42:58.589] 3/9/2022 2:42:58 PM,DeepFreeze,There are 0 unknownKerbals in the game roster.
[LOG 14:42:58.589] 3/9/2022 2:42:58 PM,DeepFreeze,There are 24 crew Kerbals in the game roster.
[EXC 14:42:58.656] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	SystemHeat.SystemHeatEditor.FixedUpdate () (at <faa8f438e27f4148b7041ce82be5b9c9>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)
[WRN 14:42:58.682] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Cernunnos'
[WRN 14:42:58.695] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'RAB-58E'
[WRN 14:42:58.708] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Rosmerta'
[WRN 14:42:58.721] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Epona'
[WRN 14:42:58.735] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Damona'
[WRN 14:42:58.748] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Brovo'
[WRN 14:42:58.761] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Airmed'
[WRN 14:42:58.774] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Caireen'
[WRN 14:42:58.787] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Sucellus'
[WRN 14:42:58.800] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Belisama'
[WRN 14:42:58.813] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Nodens'
[WRN 14:42:58.826] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Toutatis'
[WRN 14:42:58.839] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Taranis'
[WRN 14:42:58.852] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Lon'
[WRN 14:42:58.865] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Soden'
[WRN 14:42:58.878] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Archae'
[WRN 14:42:58.891] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Ervo'
[WRN 14:42:58.904] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Flake'
[WRN 14:42:58.917] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Mracksis'
[WRN 14:42:58.929] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'KiKi'
[WRN 14:42:58.942] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Kal'
[WRN 14:42:58.954] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Havous'
[WRN 14:42:58.967] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Karen'
[WRN 14:42:58.979] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Plock'
[WRN 14:42:58.992] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Nissee'
[WRN 14:42:59.005] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Thatmo'
[WRN 14:42:59.018] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Geito'
[WRN 14:42:59.030] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Tal'
[WRN 14:42:59.043] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Wal'
[WRN 14:42:59.055] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Priax'
[WRN 14:42:59.068] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Polta'
[WRN 14:42:59.080] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Crokslev'
[WRN 14:42:59.093] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Tekto'
[WRN 14:42:59.106] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Slate'
[WRN 14:42:59.132] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Ovok'
[WRN 14:42:59.145] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Hale'
[WRN 14:42:59.157] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'LintMikey'
[WRN 14:42:59.232] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Zore'
[WRN 14:42:59.257] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Vant'
[WRN 14:42:59.270] Cannot find preset 'Default' for pqs 'Edas'
[WRN 14:42:59.405] HighlightingSystem : Framebuffer depth data is not available and can't be used to occlude highlighting. Highlighting occluders enabled.
[LOG 14:42:59.467] [SystemHeat][DebugUI]: Initializing
[LOG 14:42:59.469] [SystemHeat][UI]: Loaded Assets
[LOG 14:42:59.526] Read value of:KeypadMultiply

[LOG 14:42:59.526] Read value of:KeypadPlus

[LOG 14:42:59.526] Read value of:KeypadMinus

[LOG 14:42:59.526] Read value of:KeypadDivide

[LOG 14:42:59.526] Read value of:End

[LOG 14:42:59.526] Read value of:Home

[LOG 14:42:59.526] Read value of:PageUp

[LOG 14:42:59.526] [UiApp] Awake: EngineersReport
[LOG 14:42:59.526] [UiApp] Awake: KSPedia
[LOG 14:42:59.526] [UiApp] Awake: Missions App
[LOG 14:42:59.526] [UiApp] Awake: DeltaVApp
[LOG 14:42:59.526] [UiApp] Awake: ActionGroupsApp
[LOG 14:42:59.526] [UiApp] Awake: AlarmClock
[LOG 14:42:59.526] [ApplicationLauncher] OnSceneLoadedGUIReady: scene EDITOR ShouldBeVisible() True ShouldBeOnTop() False iIsPositionedAtTop False

 

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