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Mod Request: Larger Jet Engines


Northstar1989
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KSP desperately needs larger (1.875 and 2.5 meter) jets, to bring down part and engine-count for players who build really large spaceplanes (since they take so long to get to orbit, the only way to do them, IMHO).

I would like to request a modder build a simple mod with stock-alike 1.875 and 2.5 meter jet engines.

The objective, eventually, would be to hopefully get SQUAD to work with that modder to make the engines Stock.  So focusing on doing a really, really good job with just a few parts would be preferable.

Edited by Northstar1989
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@Northstar1989 oh hello again. I didn't think of it earlier (because it's WIP and semi-abandoned) but I have something already (outside of OPT) that you might really like. There's no 1.875m engine but a large part of why I made this is what you're asking for-- saving on part count (and drag issues) when building heavy spaceplanes.

M1H6o1M.png

Included is a rather long but very capable 2.5m engine derived from SABRE, "SCIMITAR," a Mach 5 jet engine and the proposed main engine for the LAPCAT family concept hypersonic airliner. I left it alone because I got the strong impression that the audience I made it for...will largely never notice it or accept it...and I like scramjets more so my own desire for it faded.

SABR3 is release ready. It's just "meh" on textures.41NFH1s.png

 

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Pretty awesome @JadeOfMaar

I'm not sure why you'd think players would never notice/appreciate this!  In my own experience (from the Netherdyne Mass Driver Mod, and before that KSP-Interstellar Extended) is that a lot of it comes down to luck, publicity, and time really.  For instance, both of those mods never really took off until Scott Manley (one of my fav YouTubers) did videos on both, and Kostabos Gaming one on the Mass Driver!

Though, to be fair, I'll admit the whole spaceplane crowd can be a rather whiny and obnoxious bunch at times...

For people building something that's NEVER been done in real life (a single-stsge, HTHL Orbital Spaceplane), on a downsized solar system that is the only thing that even makes it technically feasible, they sure complain a lot about "overpowered" parts- which makes sense if it's a purely fictional engine with no obvious real-life basis, maybe (like some of the engines in OPT, actually- I'm not aware of any real life parallels to some of them : though maybe that's just a shortcoming in providing real-life background for the mod so players understand it...) but is just plain krakens for something like a SABRE mod that's actually based on real-life experimental engine performance...

In KSP-Interstellar Extended, I learned to ignore such critics early on, fortunately.  Plus I made it known that we WEREN'T TRYING to balance anything for Stock sized Kerbin: if they wanted a properly "challenging" playthrough with our parts they should go and play Real Solar System.

It managed to shut most of the critics up.

Especially the lazy ones (most of 'em) who couldn't be bothered to try Real Solar System for more than a few hours at most (not NEARLY enough time to learn a new playstyle based around it...) or hunt down the half-sized configs like 64k (my personal favorite and where I built the first-ever spaceplane for that size, using nothing more than KSP-I fission hybrid open/closed-cycle thermal turbojets, and really, really extreme mass-ratios...  Your SABRE mod would have given me a higher payload than nukes, actually- had it been available: as you noted somewhere on your thread about the relative utility of nukes...), 2.5x, or 3.2x if they found full-sized RSS a little too slow/hard...

 

TLDR: I support what you were doing man!  Having been a modder myself, who worked almost EXCLUSIVELY on futuristic technology mods, my best advice is not to let the critics get you down.  Those who say "it can't be done" (or, in KSP: "it's impossible in real life") are always best answered by those quietly doing exactly what they said was infeasible...

I do believe we'll (as a species, if not in my lifetime) see Mass Drivers, widespread use of precoolers and intercoolers in hybrid jet/rocket spaceplanes, Propulsive Fluid Accumulators, Orbital Electrodynamic Tethers, Microwave Beamed Power, Mars colonies, and a lot of other cool stuff someday if we just trust in science (and fund ambitious and not-so-ambitious projects!) and don't nuke ourselves first...

Keep imagining the future man!

Edited by Northstar1989
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By the way, you might find this new interesting:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/10/22/british-made-hypersonic-engine-passes-key-milestone-at-colorado-test-site/

Apparently the SABRE precoolers (by far the most revolutionary part of the design) have been validated at Mach 5 conditions in hypersonic wind-tunnels now.

The British government is already preparing funding to equip future combat jets with precoolers to improve their high speed performance...

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@Northstar1989 I wholly agree. It took me quite a while, actually, to learn to tune out OPT critics. Incidentally I now hope (likely in vain) for RSS players to notice the potentials for use in RSS that I've added into OPT since I started taking over. But OPT is far from realistic(tm) so, meh.

There's no real life parallel in OPT's engines...Except the WarpJet concept that I devised, partially based on a real concept for a high powered ion engine that uses air and could lift airliners and later empower SSTOs, and partially based on something that I believe is hard sci-fi and would be easily possible once magnetic confinement and magnetohydrodynamics become easy to us. OPT is half inspired by the Avatar Valkyrie shuttle, and half inspired by an anime OVA movie. Tweakscaled parts aside, the one thing out of place here is that the J-60 ScreamJet (center engine, not obvious) isn't K or Humpback sized.

Spoiler

ZDWXTb6.png

I never considered the potential of exposure by someone big like Kottabos or Scott Manley. That's a big duh. *facepalm* But in retrospect, I'm glad that hasn't happened. Now that I'm pretty good at part making, I'm very unhappy with how SABR3 looks and I'd rather take it down than finish and release as-is.

Before I made SABR3 I wanted to have a whole parts pack based on CFASTT-1, an aerodynamically sound, blended wing-body derivative of Skylon. But with my takeover of OPT Legacy and Captain Kipard's 5m Skylon, it would be really redundant to make that.

Spoiler

fig31.jpg

I have a lot to ponder re: making (and re-making) engines but I'm highly considering revising and expanding SABR3 (vs stuffing even more engines into OPT). Once I get far along, I'll be sure to ping you so you can see. :)

...

18 minutes ago, Northstar1989 said:

By the way, you might find this new interesting:

ooooh!

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On 5/23/2020 at 10:00 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

 

I never considered the potential of exposure by someone big like Kottabos or Scott Manley. That's a big duh. *facepalm* But in retrospect, I'm glad that hasn't happened. Now that I'm pretty good at part making, I'm very unhappy with how SABR3 looks and I'd rather take it down than finish and release as-is.

Manley, and particularly Kottabos, were pretty good with my Mass Driver mod- warts and all.  Kottabos, in particular, quite carefully explained how to get past many of the things players found most confusing about using it, and even discussed some of the apparent bugs/glitches it had.

And now, maybe in part thanks to that publicity (which gave the mod some legitimacy in player's eyes), more talented modders than myself have taken it over! (With my request for help/takeover)

On 5/23/2020 at 10:00 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

 

Before I made SABR3 I wanted to have a whole parts pack based on CFASTT-1, an aerodynamically sound, blended wing-body derivative of Skylon. But with my takeover of OPT Legacy and Captain Kipard's 5m Skylon, it would be really redundant to make that.

A 5 meter Skylon?!  What witchcraft is this?!  I must see!  :)

On 5/23/2020 at 10:00 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

 

I have a lot to ponder re: making (and re-making) engines but I'm highly considering revising and expanding SABR3 (vs stuffing even more engines into OPT). Once I get far along, I'll be sure to ping you so you can see. :)

I'd really love to have my hands on a working rendition of 2.5/3.75 meter Skylon engines right now.  :)

I'm sure that you'll come up with something even better- but there's a lot to be said for just giving players something they can work with, and bringing some publicity to a mod, in the meantime...

i used to play with the Project Orion (nuclear mini-bomb propulsion!) mod, back when that was current.  And let me tell you, boy was that fun, even if it wasn't polished! (And, it would probably be even better now, what with mods to add actual additional star systems to KSP...  Never did find out if they solved the whole "solar panels can't derive energy from other stars" problem in those mods though...)

Keep up the good work!

Edited by Northstar1989
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With input from my favorite KSP streamer, I've settled on a reference for a 1.875m afterburning turbofan (Whiplash alike), and already drafted it. I've worked out the "turkey feathers" so that they can animate. That'll be epic... But I won't be making a 2.5m such engine. It's improbable IRL. My pre-existing SCIMITAR will have that seat.

lBS0FnP.png

The roster is now (as of this post):

  • 1.875m turbofan "Whiplash" (new codename TBD)
  • 2.5m turbojet SCIMITAR
  • 2.5m SABRE
  • 3.75m SABRE

I would like to add other engines by class as well, specifically propfan, turboprop/UDF, and scramjet. But they're not immediately important to this topic and my to-do list has quickly gotten full.

The 5m Skylon is here.

Note that its engines, although 3.75m, are far more powerful than a 9x RAPIER cluster (or my custom engines = 7x RAPIER) due to the sheer amount of mass they're meant to push.

 

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1 hour ago, JadeOfMaar said:

The 5m Skylon is here.

Note that its engines, although 3.75m, are far more powerful than a 9x RAPIER cluster (or my custom engines = 7x RAPIER) due to the sheer amount of mass they're meant to push.

That was interesting!

Although it looks like it's a mod where everything is meant to fit together "just so", and doesn't really leave much room for customization.  So I probably won't actually be playing with it...

I presume your own engines won't be restricted to HydroLox?  I don't use it, because if I did, I'd have to go to RealFuels (so all my engines used it and I'd have more customizability), and then I'd end up playing an upscaled Kerbin system... (right now I'm just trying to stick to Stock size and default fuels because I really don't have the time to invest in too complicated a playthrough of KSP right now...)

Edited by Northstar1989
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Yeah. Kipard's Skylon is like that, unfortunately. It's a "specialized" parts pack in that sense. You build it one way. It does one job. You will find yourself needing to play an upsized system anyway with how large Skylon is, and hence how much dV it allows you. Similar situation as Bluedog Design Bureau and Tundra Exploration. They are, by nature, best fit for use in 2.7x scale, and OP for stock scale.

My engines will use stock fuels by default. They are fully expected to be used in the greater majority of craft designs and with stock fuels with them.

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