Will you boycott KSP 2 if T2 throws it under the bus?

[ShakeNBake]

Just now, HansonKerman said:

Why? KSP is a great game. It has nothing to do with stupid intercept stupid games. Don’t do that.

Because toxic capitalism makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t pretend to think that anything I do will affect any of those studios at all. They already have my money and ten thousand hours. I just get extremely frustrated with myself for participating in the system.

[HansonKerman]

5 minutes ago, ShakeNBake said:

Because toxic capitalism makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t pretend to think that anything I do will affect any of those studios at all. They already have my money and ten thousand hours. I just get extremely frustrated with myself for participating in the system.

1. I’m with you. I also hate toxic capitalism.

2. What you said made me feel sick. I’m going to finish one mission and put KSP down for a bit. Maybe days maybe weeks. Thanks.

3. Ugh

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, ShakeNBake said:

Because toxic capitalism makes me sick to my stomach.

 I can't afford not to work because of toxic capitalism.

I can't afford not to pay for a car because of toxic capitalism.

I can't go around naked because of toxic capitalism.

You can be sure I'm not going to live a excrementsty life and avoid every hobby and form of entertainment to combat toxic capitalism.

 

Game developers are not some endangered species, if anything their problems are more felt by the pubblic due to them working on popular products, the company making this forum platform could treat their developers like excrements and literaly nobody would care.

[SpaceFace545]

I think the game had a good and honest start of being a partial revamp of KSP 2 with interstellar parts and mechanics but, I think the devs got a little over ambitious and can't provide to Take Two. This isn't Take Two's fault as they are a big publisher who needs games that take a year to make not games ridden with bugs and delayed multiple times. KSP was an indie game and that suits it best but going with Take Two does give them cash but, it pushes for rapid content that a game of this scope can't provide.

[Pthigrivi]

16 minutes ago, ShakeNBake said:

Because toxic capitalism makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t pretend to think that anything I do will affect any of those studios at all. They already have my money and ten thousand hours. I just get extremely frustrated with myself for participating in the system.

This is legit. Im of the concerted opinion that while investment isn't necessarily exploitive by itself, deregulation and greed have slowly dragged us into an era where baseline expected ROIs are essentially dependent on exploitation and cutthroat business practices. Grotesquely short horizons have empowered vulture capital and made asset stripping more profitable than encouraging sustainable, organic growth. That culture drives dishonorable and inhumane expectations and conduct down the corporate ladder. That said, I don't think the creative team actually building the game can be rightly faulted for the state of modern capitalism. They seem passionate about building a good game and we'll just have to hope they're given the resources and creative license to make it happen. Both T2 and the previous owners of Star Theory were 'in the game', such as it is. I don't think from the outside we are really in a position to judge the truth of how that all went down. 

[sao123]

20 hours ago, Defenestrator47 said:

making this decision based on the game only ignores the unethical way this publisher behaves, and the way that all publishers behave

 

There are no ethics in business, only contracts and profits.   I mean that... if there were no profits to be had, there would be no KSP 2, ever.

Employees work for pay.  Companies sell for profits.  Capitalism is not toxic, though it may be vicious and cutthroat.  There are those companies who will survive, and those who will not.

There are no "feelings" in business, only pure cold logic and contract law.  It takes the highest levels of emotional maturity to truly seperate "feelings" from "business".

 

If KSP2 is fun, i''ll buy it.  If its not fun, I wont.  Period.

 

[ShakeNBake]

9 minutes ago, sao123 said:

 

There are no ethics in business, only contracts and profits.   I mean that... if there were no profits to be had, there would be no KSP 2, ever.

Employees work for pay.  Companies sell for profits.  Capitalism is not toxic, though it may be vicious and cutthroat.  There are those companies who will survive, and those who will not.

There are no "feelings" in business, only pure cold logic and contract law.  It takes the highest levels of emotional maturity to truly seperate "feelings" from "business".

 

If KSP2 is fun, i''ll buy it.  If its not fun, I wont.  Period.

 

This is where it really comes down to an individual’s opinions on what they value as ‘ethical’ or ‘moral’. To stray way off topic into philosophy, those are entirely human constructs. Societies across the world have had massive swings throughout history in what is considered moral or immoral. We can’t know how the future will play out. We can’t know who (if anyone) is right or wrong. This is not a weakness and while it makes us different, it does not imply anything as far as good or bad.

[kerbiloid]

I'm far from judging anybody, but from the moral/ethical point of view, currently ST got with their own measure, after stepping into another one's land.

So, it's ok with moral and ethics. Maybe even that's what we call equilibrium.

Edited June 4, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Pthigrivi]

1 hour ago, sao123 said:

Employees work for pay.  Companies sell for profits.  Capitalism is not toxic, though it may be vicious and cutthroat.  There are those companies who will survive, and those who will not.

I don't think this is true at all. Humans are emotional creatures and feelings pervade everything we do. Are customers satisfied? Do vendors and subs feel screwed over? Do clients trust you? If you have a bad quarter or make a big mistake does your employer or investors have faith that you'll fix things? It's based on numbers, but having the theory of mind to understand how others will react is absolutely fundamental to it. At its heart it's just a big evolving prisoners dilemma. 

Im old-school about the whole thing though. Of course you can take shortcuts and burn people to eek out a few more bucks, but if you're actually trying to build real value over the long term you need to maintain your reputation. Honor your agreements, pay your bills, and treat people honestly and fairly. Thats just across the board. I've had people tell me thats quaint, only to watch them dragged down and ripped apart in legal fights, drummed out of the industry for ticking off the wrong people, or watch as their contacts dry up as the word got out. You can only play the Theranos game so long.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Pthigrivi

[Lithobrake]

I'm still cautiously optimistic about the game. The fact that about a week before this drama, the massive PCgamer article came out with promising features and the fact that the game is being developed by mostly the same people suggests to me that we'll still have a great game. What Take2 did was disgusting and unfair, we've had updates since the December switchover that have been incredibly promising. I may be playing devil's advocate here, but I think Private Division has to be aware of their audience. 80% of the people who came here suggested they'd boycott if it was bad. I doubt take2 will take that risk.  And if they do, I won't buy it, but this decision happened months ago. I think we'll be mostly ok, fingers crossed.

[Laie]

I will "boycot" KSP2 if it won't run on my machine. Everything else is wait and see.

 

[wumpus]

Did KSP 2.0 go from "almost certainly buy" (barring horrible reviews from trusted folks on this site) to "wait and see"?  Yes, yes it did (no, I won't even pre-order KSP products.  Never pre-order).

Will KSP 2.0 (primarily due to non-existence) alter any purchasing decisions about DLC (or potentials gifts to others) for KSP 1.0?  Not all all (barring changes in the mod scene).

Is this whole thing likely to make me less likely to buy Take 2 products in the future?  Yes, but not nearly as much as some stupid DRM I've encountered in non-KSP Take 2 products...

[Noname115]

Just spreading the message. KSP2 will be ok.

[Levelord]

I've already had my fun with my almost decade long relationship with KSP 1. While I hope that KSP 2 suffers no adverse circumstances, you have to consider what KSP 1 has given us.

 

1. An excellent base game with a great community with all the bells and whistles of unlimited modding potential.

2. FREE DLCs for us original supporters.

3. No microtransactions.

4. No intrusive DRMs

5. Memories and fun times with the KSP 1 team and watching Harvester work on his new game Balsa Model Flight Simulator. You can certainly see a lot of KSP's DNA and passion put into it. (I miss Harv )

 

The space sim of KSP 1 is great, no doubt about it, but a lot of that fun also comes from the complete freedom to do whatever you want, without the constant microtransactions breathing down your neck trying to tell you that you have an incomplete experience, without a restrictive DRM system, and without a restrictive modding API.

 

KSP 2 hasn't been made yet and I have never tried it.  I'm not saying that KSP 2 will eventually have those scummy drawbacks, but if it does, then it'll be a tarnished reflection on it's already well polished predecessor and I will find it very difficult to justify buying another game that essentially does the same thing with just a few new bells and whistles that mods could accomplish on KSP1.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Levelord

[Jacke]

2 hours ago, Noname115 said:

Just spreading the message. KSP2 will be ok.

You keep posting that message across all the varied topics about this matter's different facets.

There is no guarantee that KSP 2 will be okay.

Ignoring the shear extreme nature of what happened just because a dev still has the right vision at this moment is short-sighted.

That vision still has to be delivered.  Even in a less disrupted environment, a team doing that will be challenged.

And this is an excellent comment on all of this, including the impact on delivering a good KSP 2.

In short, this stupidity is far from the industry norm and has hurt the chance of delivering a good KSP 2.

 

[HansonKerman]

there are so many good replies that I can’t give a response to them all with my limited time rn. If you got a like from me... I liked your response. Willbebackgtg

[HansonKerman]

53 minutes ago, Jacke said:

You keep posting that message across all the varied topics about this matter's different facets.

There is no guarantee that KSP 2 will be okay.

Ignoring the shear extreme nature of what happened just because a dev still has the right vision at this moment is short-sighted.

That vision still has to be delivered.  Even in a less disrupted environment, a team doing that will be challenged.

And this is an excellent comment on all of this, including the impact on delivering a good KSP 2.

In short, this stupidity is far from the industry norm and has hurt the chance of delivering a good KSP 2.

 

YES YES YES. This is exactly what I wanted to say. Words out of my mile-away mouth.

6 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

I don't think this is true at all. Humans are emotional creatures and feelings pervade everything we do. Are customers satisfied? Do vendors and subs feel screwed over? Do clients trust you? If you have a bad quarter or make a big mistake does your employer or investors have faith that you'll fix things? It's based on numbers, but having the theory of mind to understand how others will react is absolutely fundamental to it. At its heart it's just a big evolving prisoners dilemma. 

I love this. The unfortunate truth is that capitalists like Intercept Games are the GLaDOS to our Chell, the Vulcan to the human, the Darth Vader to the misbehaving Imperial officer. In short: psychopaths. They don’t care. They just want the money to roll in. Come now. Mummy wants a fifth mansion. The fourth was horrible. I want Intercept games to listen. They won’t. But if they do understand that terminating a company is not cool, and in a humorous contronym, colder than Freeze-Dry. Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps the Lapras will be caught. Perhaps GLaDOS will learn. Perhaps Anakin will remember. But unfortunately, the chance is much higher that it will end like the confrontation on the Death Star- a friend gone. The awakening on Bring Your Daughter to Work Day. The blackout from a final Surf.

Reputation points can go to -900 for all they care. What’s that? Oh yeah, that currency. Doesn’t it affect contracts?

And the worst part is- 

6 hours ago, Lithobrake said:

I'm still cautiously optimistic about the game. The fact that about a week before this drama, the massive PCgamer article came out with promising features and the fact that the game is being developed by mostly the same people suggests to me that we'll still have a great game. What Take2 did was disgusting and unfair, we've had updates since the December switchover that have been incredibly promising. I may be playing devil's advocate here, but I think Private Division has to be aware of their audience. 80% of the people who came here suggested they'd boycott if it was bad. I doubt take2 will take that risk.  And if they do, I won't buy it, but this decision happened months ago. I think we'll be mostly ok, fingers crossed.

The articles don’t care. There’s one. But the way Intercept will get around that is it will try to make KSP2 great. The bolded sentences are showing my shared opinion. They’re right you know. Private Division probably doesn’t care. If they learn to care - be the Caroline to GLaDOS... KSP2 will have a higher chance of being great. If GLaDOS goes back down, KSP2 may be fine. I will hope.

goodbye.

(Klamperture Science holds no responsibility for death of cringe from these game references).

[Pthigrivi]

@HansonKerman has anyone ever told you that you have a very peculiar writing style?

[HansonKerman]

10 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

@HansonKerman has anyone ever told you that you have a very peculiar writing style?

wydm? The game references or the nonstop talking/tapping? Or what, the endless dragging on of metaphors?

On 6/3/2020 at 12:56 PM, Superfluous J said:

but also under a bus?

*attempts to get the box but it’s under a bus so you need to really squat down and reach far in*

Edited June 5, 2020 by HansonKerman

[Jacke]

16 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

@HansonKerman has anyone ever told you that you have a very peculiar writing style?

 

7 minutes ago, HansonKerman said:

wydm? The game references or the nonstop talking/tapping

 

Quote

As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.

“’Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door—

Only this and nothing more.”

 

And I'm already out of likes, else I would like @HansonKerman's post as well.

YongYea put out a video today.  He also brings up past mass poaching attempts from the past by EA.  As @K^2 commented, it's not the industry norm.  But it's not uncommon.  In an industry that really seems a race to the bottom.

[snip]

Edited June 5, 2020 by Vanamonde

[Vanamonde]

Folks, before you link videos on this forum, you need to make sure they do not contain any profanity, and do not refer to people with insulting terminology. 

[HansonKerman]

10 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 

Quote

As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.

“’Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door—

Only this and nothing more.”

 

 

since I’m on mobile I take this to mean that I type too much lmao

[Jacke]

14 minutes ago, HansonKerman said:

since I’m on mobile I take this to mean that I type too much lmao

The Raven by Edgar Allen Poe

[HansonKerman]

9 minutes ago, Jacke said:

The Raven by Edgar Allen Poe

The Raven is so long that I never bothered to read it all. Who knew that it could see the future. (Btw, @Pthigrivi I still dk what u mean)

[Jacke]

23 minutes ago, HansonKerman said:

The Raven is so long that I never bothered to read it all. Who knew that it could see the future.

Took me under 10 minutes to read "The Raven" aloud.  With many a stumble and a stutter.

It's the human condition.  Doesn't really repeat so much as rhyme.