mattihase

Corporate Ethics (An open letter)

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46 minutes ago, harrisjosh2711 said:

Just tell me exactly what "power" take two has?

- More funds for game dev than other studios, thus producing quality games

- Quality games are appreciated by the public, they buy it and get more funds for Take2

- Take2 buys and dissolves up and coming studios, gaining more monopoly

- Repeat

A smartphone better than its competitor will find its way to our pockets, even if we knew it was probably made in bad worker condition in China. Sports wear made in sweatshops in third world country find their space in our wardrobes now, dont they?

The point is: Take2 has the ability to deliver better goods, at the cost of ethics and morals. And as materialistic this society is, we could not give a dang about how the product was made, as long as it works and delivers as promised.

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30 minutes ago, harrisjosh2711 said:

Very well said! Im stealing this.

I'm pretty sure I'm just paraphrasing some quote from somewhere else. I take no credit for inventing it.

Feel free to substitute a grain of sand on a beach, or whatever

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46 minutes ago, Selective Genius said:

And as materialistic this society is, we could not give a dang about how the product was made, as long as it works and delivers as promised.

That is not true for all people.  Some are ignorant.  Some are wilfully ignorant.  Some know and say it doesn't matter.  Some know and act with reluctance.

But no moral boundaries are ever pushed or ignored without eventual consequence.

That consequence may be minor.  TTI/PD has already lost sales of KSP 2 because of how they handled this mess.

Consequences are not always minor.  People have memories and will remind those who've forgotten.

I may buy KSP 2.  Or I may not.  I will always think of this.  And I will be very reluctant to buy other TTI games.

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25 minutes ago, Jacke said:

That is not true for all people.  Some are ignorant.  Some are wilfully ignorant.  Some know and say it doesn't matter.  Some know and act with reluctance.

But we all will buy the cheaper better goods, disregarding where and how it was manufactured, dont you? Or will we cough up more money to buy something 'morally superior'?

If we don't buy Take2 products and buy an equivalent product from other publishers, what would be our choice? EA? Apple? Microsoft? Activision/Blizzard? Which of these do not have skeletons in their closet? Which of these will adhere to our moral standards? We can of course buy from indie studios but is it guaranteed that the quality will match that of the bigger publishers?

People will make a lot of noise against these publishers, but all the publishers have to do is to launch a PUBG, or a Red Dead Redemption 2 and suddenly all sins are forgotten for a while, the publishers line up their pockets with a few hundred million dollars. It is the good old 'Breads and Circuses' which Romans used to distract their discontent populace and get goodwill too, in the process.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Selective Genius said:

A smartphone better than its competitor will find its way to our pockets, even if we knew it was probably made in bad worker condition in China. Sports wear made in sweatshops in third world country find their space in our wardrobes now, dont they?

The point is: Take2 has the ability to deliver better goods, at the cost of ethics and morals. And as materialistic this society is, we could not give a dang about how the product was made, as long as it works and delivers as promised.

Idk man, you sound like someone who has given up hope. You may be correct in your belief that "I have no power", but i will never accept that. Once you lose hope all is truly lost. Since you have allready submitted to the master, take some consolation knowing some of us will continue fighting so that our kids and grandkids might grow up in a better world.

Edited by harrisjosh2711

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1 hour ago, harrisjosh2711 said:

Idk man, you sound like someone who has given up hope. You may be correct in your belief that "I have no power", but i will never accept that. Once you lose hope all is truly lost. Since you have allready submitted to the master, take some consolation knowing some of us will continue fighting so that our kids and grandkids might grow up in a better world.

Nah, I just know what my limitations and weaknesses are, and I have the common sense to side with the winner. While good people like you will continue to wallow in the puddles of mediocrity, smug at your lofty ideals of 'Morality' and 'Justice'; I will lie, cheat and steal my way to the top, so that one day my grandkids will have power over your grandkids and push them further in their ever growing pit of righteousness.

'Fight'. You are 'Fighting', is it? Do you even know who the enemy is? Or are you just shooting arrows in the dark? 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/6/2020 at 9:58 AM, Brikoleur said:

Fully onboard with demands 1 and 6. Won't sign up to 2-5.

What's wrong with 2-5?

Edited by Bej Kerman
Didn't go to reply, clicked button 2 times

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What I don't understand about this whole 'debate' is how easily those claiming to hold the 'moral high ground' seem (to me at least) so quick to assume that T2 must be completely to blame for everything, simply because they are the 'large corporation' and/or 'have done nasty stuff before'.

If your house is burgled it doesn't automatically mean that the guy who lives down the street who was once convicted of burglary did it.  A possible suspect certainly, but not necessarily guilty of this offence.

We don't 'know' any information beyond what is stated in the Bloomberg news article, the rest is pure conjecture.

I find it hard to believe that any sensible company (large or small) would simply want to terminate contracts 'on a whim', and risk jeopardising a project after investing a lot of time and money, without reasonable cause and some sort of legal grounds for doing so.  The stakes would be just too high IMO.

It is always tragic when a business fails, for whatever reason, and it's staff lose their jobs through no fault of their own.  I feel sad for them all and wish them good luck.

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2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

What's wrong with 2-5?

They have nothing to do with corporate ethics. 

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11 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:
3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

What's wrong with 2-5?

They have nothing to do with corporate ethics.

And?

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Some comments about politics have been removed. Please stick to the subject, people. 

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More political argument removed. Please stop or we'll be forced to start issuing warns. 

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3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

And?

 

Quote

KERBAL SPACE PROGRAM 2 MUST NOT FEATURE EXCLUSIVE PRE-ORDER CONTENT

They put a old MK1 pod as a symbolic preorder bonus, are you going to boycott the game over this?

101px-Command_Pod_Mk1.jpg

Quote

DAY-ONE DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT (DLC) OR PAY-LOCKED CONTENT (PLC)

They put said pre-order bonus into a "Legacy DLC-Pack" of old alpha and beta KSP models and textures as a bonus for KSP-1 players, they also sell this "Veteran pack" for 5$ because why not? 

Are you going to boycott the game over it?

Quote

 IN-APP PURCHASES IN ANY OTHER FORM, COSMETIC OR PAY-TO-WIN MICROTRANSACTIONS

They put paid hats for colonist kerbals, are you going to boycott the game over it?

Quote

 MUST BE RELEASED ON ALL PROMISED ONLINE STOREFRONTS, STEAM, THE XBOX MARKETPLACE AND THE PLAYSTATION STOREAT THE POINT OF LAUNCH

They release later on console, this is not a hypothetical thing, it was the original plan, are you going to boycott the game over it?

Quote

AND AT THE SAME POINT IN TIME REGARDLESS OF REGION.

They delay the release in WakandaR by one year, are you going to boycott the game over it?

Quote

MUST NOT RELEASE ON PC PACKAGED WITH INTRUSIVE DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT (DRM) SOFTWARE,

DRM for multiplayer, are you going to boycott the game over it?

 

If you replied "No" to one of these but you have a problem with the acquisition anyway then you have a problem with the OP hijacking the controversy to project his personal point of view on the whole community.

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11 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

And?

And the open letter was supposedly about corporate ethics. Mixing in consumer preferences trivializes ethics and dilutes the message. I also don’t care about some of the concerns at all.

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On 6/15/2020 at 1:06 PM, Master39 said:

They put a old MK1 pod as a symbolic preorder bonus, are you going to boycott the game over this?

101px-Command_Pod_Mk1.jpg

theres a pre-order? shut up and take my money!

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You know folks, it's a game, and they can do whatever the hell they want to with it and their only responsibility to their employers is to try hard to make a game that sells as well as possible. They don't owe you, me, or anyone else anything but that, and the extent of your control over the output consists of being willing or unwilling to pay for said output.

Anyone taking this seriously really needs to go do something else until basic perspective is regained.

 

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Posted (edited)

I don't know who to blame for the whole mess of the transfer.

I do not see anything wrong with the change of development company.  Star Theory didn't want to continue developing under the terms provided by Private Division, so they decided that a new company would be made.

The problem is that the developers weren't consulted in all of this.  I don't know who is to blame, but if Star Theory was in these negotiations and they are the formal employer, it is their duty to consult them and bring them in on the discussion. 

Honestly, Star Theory has had a lot of problems, and 2K's largest ethical problems have been in not mandating that their subsidiaries follow proper ethical behaviour, and then taking the blame so they can be the big corporate bad guy and the middle management gets off with no blemishes on their reputation.     So I think logic says that 2K didn't make Star Theory bring in the programmers, and Star Theory didn't think to.   Making Star Theory at fault, and 2K Negligent (as usual with anything that happens under their umbrella, which is why I was so glad to see Squad keep it's current management lineage in the merger.) 

Fortunately nothing here is more than bad corporate practice.  Nothing illegal, and everything did get sorted out in the end.  Still, it is a good reason to pressure 2K to try to at least give some decent advice to their subsidiaries about when something is a bad idea.  They also should probably go and maybe get some people with some real world experience to consult in these sort of things as to know what sort of things can go wrong, and what the fallout might be from it.  I think part of the problem is that 2K's business division is too far detached from the real world and doesn't know what kind of mistakes can happen and what the press will think of it.  The later one is the bad part. 

For instance, letting the greedy stand-up guys at RockStar request cease and decist letters against modders was a clear and obvious bad press moment.  A more kindly worded letter saying to restrict particular usages of the modkit would have been better.  Even better would be to provide guidelines for modding in an EULA ammendum for GTA V and GTA V Online, with separate designations of what is acceptable for regular play and online play.

As of what I would like to see now, as of cleaning up this mess on KSP 2 should be done in a fully transparent manner.  They also need to make sure this kind of mess doesn't happen again.

Edited by Ruedii

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