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Arrow Bow Archer V5 (SSTO/SSTA that can reach all planets)


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This is the updated version of the Arrow V3 / Bow V3. See initial thread at https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/160475-arrow-bow-archer-dual-ssto-can-reach-all-planets/. Using the Arrow V5 and Bow V5 you are able to visit all planets and land on most of them with the Arrow. The same chart applies as per the V3 with some in most part:

Object Can it reach this orbit? Can it land on it? Which part can land? How difficult is it?
Kerbol Yes (fly by only) No N/A Very hard
Moho Yes Yes Both Hard
Eve Yes No N/A Impossible*
Gilly Yes Yes Both Easy
Kerbin Yes Yes Arrow only Medium
Mun Yes Yes Both Easy
Minmus Yes Yes Both Easy
Duna Yes Yes Both Medium
Ike Yes Yes Both Easy
Dres Yes Yes Both Hard
Jool Yes (fly by only) No N/A Medium
Laythe Yes Yes Arrow only Medium
Vall Yes Yes Both Medium
Tylo Yes Yes Arrow only Very hard
Pol Yes Yes Both Easy
Bop Yes Yes Both Easy
Eeloo Yes Yes Both Medium
Asteroids No No N/A Impossible*

*The new version no longer supports Asteroids landing / catching since this is a very rarely scenario anyways and just adds weight. You can modify the Bow V5 to install the Claw. Not recommended unless this is a common scenario you need.

DO NOT attempt to land any of the ships on Eve as they were not designed for it. Use a different ship to visit Eve. The Arrow V5 does not have the needed dv to reach orbit from the surface of Eve.

 

What's been updated:

Arrow V5

itT3v5N.jpg

Redesigned Arrow V3. The new model keeps most of the traits of the old one but it has been optimized to make it more maneuverable and balanced. The difference is listed in the table below:

Ship Arrow V5 Arrow V3
Type
SSTO / SSTA (w/ Bow)
SSTO / SSTA (w/ Bow)
Range Short Short
DV (Atm)
15000m/s 18000m/s
DV (Vac)
2600m/s 3000m/s
Weight Class
Medium
Heavy
Weight (Max)
99t 120t
Weight (Min)
42t 44t
Crew (cabin + extra seats)
4+2 4+2
Mining config 1 Large Drill + Large ISRU (5 days refuel time) 1 Large Drill + Small ISRU (50 days refuel time)

The main reason to redesign the Arrow V5 was the long refuel time, which would take up to 50 days, due to the small ISRU used. The new version refuels in about 5 days, 10 times faster, allowing for easier navigation when planning travel from planet to planet.

The reduced weight allows for better control especially in atmospheric conditions. The big downside is the somewhat reduced dv which now makes landing on Tylo more challenging. In order to land on Tylo you can use the Bow V5 to drop the trajectory to surface, then decouple the Arrow V5 and circularize the Bow V5 again. Such maneuvers should be done between 15000-30000m because any higher or lower orbits interfere with the dv reserves or may cause to hit the ground too early. For expert players landing with 2600m/s can be done with 100-200m/s dv to spare without the use of the Bow V5.

The Arrow V5 has dropped all RCS controls as they are heavy and are not needed. Use the Matt Lowne docking method instead. It takes practice but it saves a lot of weight if no RCS is used. If you find it too difficult then use the Arrow V3 instead but expect longer waiting times to refuel. If you use the Arrow V3 you need to use the Bow V3 also since the V5 is not recommended to be used with older versions and should not be mixed.

Instructions on getting to orbit are available in the imgur album at https://imgur.com/a/fGer9Og

Do not change the fuel loadout when taking off from base. To get to orbit in atmospheric conditions you will need to have 100% Lf and 50% Ox loadout. Otherwise it will be too heavy to get to orbit and will have unused Ox.

 

Bow V5

jPinhdy.jpg

The redesigned Bow V5 (top ship in the picture) is also lighter than the V3 model and is represented by the ship at the top. Due to the reduced weight on the Arrow V5 the requirements have also been updated. The difference is listed in the table below:

Ship Bow V5 Bow V3
Type SSTA (w/ Arrow) SSTA (w/ Arrow)
Range Long Long
DV (Atm)
0m/s 0m/s
DV (Vac)
9500m/s 9000m/s
Weight Class
Very heavy Super heavy
Weight (Max)
355t 493t
Weight (Min)
82t 120t
Crew
0 3
Mining config 3 Large Drills + Large ISRU 4 Large Drills + large ISRU

The main reason for redesigning the Bow V5 is the lower requirements for pushing the Arrow V5. The Bow V5 should not be used with the older Arrow models. Despite the better dv, the TWR is lower and will struggle with the older heavier Arrow models.

One disadvantage that can be seen compared to the older versions is the somewhat lower TWR which will result in longer burn times. TWR can be improved when burning the Lf+Ox (Rhino) first then the Lf (Nerva) after. For going to Moho this requires careful planning since the usage of Lf + Of (Rhino) is required to land on Moho. Other planets or moons require less dv and can be landed on with Lf (Nerva) only.

Launching is tricky due to top heavy ship. Instructions on getting to orbit are available in the imgur album at https://imgur.com/a/wVAlRwW

Do not change the fuel loadout when taking off from base. It has been optimized for reaching orbit and then Minmus for refueling with the Arrow V5 attached.

The controls have been updated as well

Controls Arrow V5 Bow V5
1 Rapier toggle N/A
2 Rapier mode toggle N/A
3 Vector toggle N/A
4 Aerospike toggle* N/A
5 N/A NERVA toggle
6 N/A Rhino toggle
7 Fuel cells, cargo bay doors toggle, lights on Fuel cells toggle, lights on
8 Converter, drills, radiators toggle, shutdown all engines Converter, drills, radiators toggle, shutdown all engines
9 Surface harvester toggle / collect all science data** Surface harvester toggle
0 Turn off converter, drills, radiators, lights, fuel cells, retract antenna and ladders, toggle bay door Turn off converter, drills, radiators, fuel cells lights, retract antenna
B Brakes Brakes
G Gear Gear
U Lights Lights
Abort Button Fuel drain*** N/A

* The Aerospike is only to be used when trying to take off vertically on high gravity objects (Tylo) where it would be risky to go too fast on the surface. Fire the Aerospike to tilt the Arrow V5 vertically then use the rear engines. Shut down the Aerospike right away to avoid being tipped over.

** This button allows the option to collect all data from the instruments without having to do it manually (for convenience purposes or when it is too dangerous to collect it manually). All the data is stored in the main control unit located in the first bay just before the Junior Science module. The data can then be collected or transferred from there if needed later on.

*** The fuel drain valve can be configured to drain either Lf or Ox or both. It should only be used if it is needed to lose weight. Such a scenario is a landing on difficult terrain in atmospheric conditions where you need maximum lift and low weight or when you need to take off a planet with oxygen but you loaded too much Ox and thus are too heavy to reach orbit (Lf should be 100% and Ox should be 50% in such conditions). There is no such option on the Bow since the Arrow can be used to transfer and then drain any excess fuel. Also, it's not very common to need to perform such an action on the Bow since it should be landing only on low gravity objects where the excess fuel should not be a problem. For Moho you will need all the fuel you can spare.

The completed Bow V5 and Arrow V5 ships should look like this and you should get anywhere between 7500-7800m/s. Unfortunately due to bugs in the interface this value is calculated incorrectly in the game. It is enough to get you from Gilly to Moho and land with some careful planning (average skill, nothing too fancy, no Scott Manley level required). You can get to Moho and land with either the Arrow V5, the Bow V5 or both depending on how conservative you have been with the route planning. Once you land with at least one you can then refuel and return to orbit to fuel the other and enable it to land as well. Before departing Moho you should dock in orbit, then land them docked and refuel and start from there to make sure you have the maximum available fuel.

fQaHQAo.jpg

Refueling:

To refuel the Arrow V5, Bow V5 or both docked where possible follow the following procedure:

1. Land;

2. Press 7;

3. Press 8;

4. Wait 10 seconds for the drills to extend;

5. Press 9 and wait for the refuel to complete (you can time warp safely);

6. Press 0 to stop the refueling which automatically resets the ship refueling and can be started all over again using the same steps.

 

Downloads:

Arrow V5

https://kerbalx.com/mystik/Arrow-V5

Bow V5

https://kerbalx.com/mystik/Bow-V5

 

Known issues/bugs

Q: The Bow is difficult to get to orbit and it tilts on the way every time.

A: This happens because the ship is very top heavy. To get it into orbit is tricky but not too difficult. Instructions are available in the album at https://imgur.com/a/wVAlRwW. The idea is to get a small angle at start of 1-2 degrees and keep it to prograde (use the prograde inteface button) until you reach orbit. It may take a few tries but it can be done. I tried many models but they ended up being worse than the original and decided to keep this one despite the stability flaws.

 

Q: The dv indicator is all wrong in Kerbal Engineer during flight.

A: This is a possible bug in the game and / or KER. If this occurs on the Arrow V5, toggle the engines on / switch modes until the value is shown correctly. If this occurs on the Bow V5 when the Arrow V5 is docked then try enabling / disabling the fuel crossfeed at the docking ports until the correct value is shown. If the fuel crossfeed is disabled please note that the ships may not automatically transfer fuel in flight or during the refuel (if both are connected when landed and the Bow V5 is doing the refueling of both). You may need to transfer fuel manually. I was not able to determine where the bug is coming from with the incorrect dv but this has worked in restoring the values during flight.

 

Q: I can't manage to dock the two crafts together without RCS.

A: Docking two crafts in KSP is difficult for beginners and advanced players alike. It takes practice and understanding of orbital dynamics. I found that the RCS engines are quite heavy and without them the overall size and weight of the ship could be greatly improved. A single Vernor engine weighs 80kg and the Arrow V5 would require 12-16 of them to make any difference which means an extra 960kg-1280kg just to gain some easier docking maneuvers plus the atmospheric drag that comes with them. On top of this the Vernor would use precious Lf + Ox and would degrade the overall range of the ship. If Monoprop would be used instead that would require additional weight for storage and the added weight of the additional engines. The decision was made that it would be better to drop all RCS on both ships. To dock easily use the Matt Lowne docking method. He describes it here: https://youtu.be/toulv4suzNw?t=750

Edited by mystik
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