My Mnemosyne worldbuilding project + the Satis planetary system

[MichaelPoole]

Hello folks, so I'd like to show my worldbuilding project + a planetary system I'd like to eventually incorporate into it. It takes place in the 27th century and is reasonably hard SF, but not "diamond hard". It's a work in progress and the general technological level is advanced fusion/early antimatter drives, strong but not transsapient AI, extensive human genetic tweaking for different conditions is used etc. I'd like to hear some feedback, ask me questions etc. For the reasons of lenght I present it as Dropbox links, keep in mind you don't need to be a Dropbox user or have it installed at all to take a look on it (.rtf is the WordPad format btw).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/si6vhxzbn7yw40g/Mnemosyne-WIP.rtf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tx6l95els5bf5j6/ShipdesignsREDONE-WIP.rtf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8ozmydqdibb9a9/Satis.rtf?dl=0

Some pictures of the Ra/Satis planetary system:

https://imgur.com/a/mUf47Un

EDIT - I'm not sure this is the right subforum for this but I don't know where else to put it. I'd like to ask admins to please move it to the approperiate section if this isn't the right one.

Edited June 21, 2020 by MichaelPoole

[MichaelPoole]

Put it all on Wattspad now too, if you guys prefer that. I'm looking for general feedback:

https://www.wattpad.com/myworks/230084104-mnemosyne-a-portrait-of-the-solar-system-in-the

https://www.wattpad.com/myworks/230086250-the-ra-planetary-system

[SOXBLOX]

Very interesting! I like the US-China Pact thing. Also, I'd suggest moving the exploration of Ceres closer to the beginning of manned spaceflight in your 'verse.

[MichaelPoole]

1 hour ago, SOXBLOX said:

Very interesting! I like the US-China Pact thing. Also, I'd suggest moving the exploration of Ceres closer to the beginning of manned spaceflight in your 'verse.

I gotta admit I was a bit inspired by the CoDominium from Jerry Pournelle's books which was an union of USA and USSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoDominium#Formation_of_the_CoDominium I'd say my union is ultimately more likely though considering that beyond surface squabbles both states are capitalist and authoritarian (though China to a far higher degree, don't want to start a political discussion though) and dependent on each other. As for Ceres, note that it's the third visited Solar system body after Moon and Mars - beginning of manned spaceflight in my verse was in 1961 as until present day it's our verse. If anything, I'd say 2090 is optimistic for a first manned Ceres mission.

Edited June 21, 2020 by MichaelPoole

[KSK]

I like it.

The first few steps along your timeline feel fairly plausible including (unfortunately ) your notes on the 2050s. 

The worldbuilding for your mid-27th century Solar system is very interesting too. I like the way you have the Hegemony on the one hand, with all the tensions that they cause and then, on the other hand, Europa is effectively fenced off as a planetary scale national park. It shows both the best and the worst of humanity very well.

 

[MichaelPoole]

Thank you for all feedback so far

4 hours ago, KSK said:

The worldbuilding for your mid-27th century Solar system is very interesting too. I like the way you have the Hegemony on the one hand, with all the tensions that they cause and then, on the other hand, Europa is effectively fenced off as a planetary scale national park. It shows both the best and the worst of humanity very well.

Indeed I don't want to make my setting either too grimdark or too Trek-style optimism, though some people might say I lean a bit on the grimdark side, but I'd say not too much. Hell, even the Hegemony mostly left old prejudices behind - even though it its case it replaced them by just not viewing any other group as really people.

[SOXBLOX]

The part about Mercury developing antimatter tech is interesting as well. Also, it seems your ships aren't torchships, right? You said they drift, have hibernation systems, etc. Curious as to why you rejected torchdrive tech...

Edited June 22, 2020 by SOXBLOX
My poor English!

[MichaelPoole]

4 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

The part about Mercury developing antimatter tech is interesting as well. Also, it seems your ships aren't torchships, right? You said they drift, have hibernation systems, etc. Curious as to why you rejected torchdrive tech...

Most ships can actually do brachystochrone trajectories up until a certain distance, but at a relatively low level of acceleration compared to ships in some sci-fi settings that accelerate at 1 G for months (that being said, compared to current or even near future ships, they absolutely are "torchships", as well as by the wider rather than narrow ProjectRho and Orion's Arm definition). This is fusion tech, for which typical "torchdrive" level of performance would be unrealistic. Also, most ships are variable specific impulse/thrust ratio, meaning some can actually produce bone crushing acceleration, but your fuel tank will run out a lot faster. No ship needs to use Hohmann transfers, remember, brachystrome flip n burn vs Hohmann transfers are 2 extremes - plenty of high energy, fast trajectories available that aren't really brachystrochrone.

I actually put some ship specs here https://www.dropbox.com/s/tx6l95els5bf5j6/ShipdesignsREDONE-WIP.rtf?dl=0 though I didn't put it on Wattspad, will do later. A lot of the time, hibernation is used to save costs on food, oxygen etc... or make tiny craft with little supplies viable (I gotta recalculate how long my best ships took to cross between Mercury and Pluto but it was something like 40-70 days). Sometimes, hibernation is part of a sneaky military strategy - the Persecutor one man pirate (well, privateer, they are legal and state ran craft of the Hegemony) spacecraft are often drifting for months with their pilots in hibernation, pretending to be derelict craft or innocent traders. Many people who smugly declare how there is no stealth in space forget that there are other ways to hide your ship than to be completely invisible (and that actual historical pirate ships had no stealth capabilities but I digress.

Edited June 22, 2020 by MichaelPoole

[KSK]

If Mercury to Pluto in a month or two isn’t ‘torchship performance’, it’s close enough in my book.

Edited June 22, 2020 by KSK

[MichaelPoole]

7 hours ago, KSK said:

If Mercury to Pluto in a month or two isn’t ‘torchship performance’, it’s close enough in my book.

I mean, it isn't Heinlein style torchship performance which took a trip to Pluto in four days and can do brachistochrone trajectories to other stars, it also depends on what ship we are talking about, not all ships in  my settings can do a Mercury-Pluto brachystochrone.

EDIT - Another limiting factor when it comes to acceleration for some modified subsets of humanity is actually biology - for example the Mirandan tweaks preferred gravity/ acceleration is around 0.01 G(!) because that's roughly the gravity of Miranda and other "just large enough to be round" bodies in the Solar system (before you say that this is very limiting, keep in mind this includes the vast majority of Solar system bodies - ultra-low G conditions that would lead to total muscular atrophy and bones crumbling like chalk in modern Earth-living humans are not just tolerated but optimum for them).

This could of course lead to a huge military disadvantage which is why I plan to arm them with sophisticated high G defense drones, it would also fit the... weird relationship I plan for the Uranians to have with the Hegemony, they're supposed to be kind of a "hippy brother" to the Hegemony (I intend them to be descended from the same group of refugees who made the Hegemony but unlike them, these guys didn't take to the path of hate and veangance and make an abandoned, angry AI their leader) but one still needs to defend themselves...and their evil brothers are willing to sell them tech...

Low acceleration also means their ships can be much bigger and more efficient.

Edited June 22, 2020 by MichaelPoole

[SOXBLOX]

Cool! Thx for the explanation. I look forward to seeing more of this!

[MichaelPoole]

10 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

Cool! Thx for the explanation. I look forward to seeing more of this!

Thanks for your feedback . Btw folks, what do you think about the Ra solar system and the planet Satis?

[MichaelPoole]

I updated the setting and posted it on Wattspad:

https://www.wattpad.com/myworks/230084104-mnemosyne-a-portrait-of-the-solar-system-in-the

Used Docdroid for my new version of the Ra planetary system for now as Wattspad does not display the pictures I had in the text:

https://docdro.id/DRcjrYn

[Spacescifi]

On 6/20/2020 at 2:20 PM, MichaelPoole said:

Hello folks, so I'd like to show my worldbuilding project + a planetary system I'd like to eventually incorporate into it. It takes place in the 27th century and is reasonably hard SF, but not "diamond hard". It's a work in progress and the general technological level is advanced fusion/early antimatter drives, strong but not transsapient AI, extensive human genetic tweaking for different conditions is used etc. I'd like to hear some feedback, ask me questions etc. For the reasons of lenght I present it as Dropbox links, keep in mind you don't need to be a Dropbox user or have it installed at all to take a look on it (.rtf is the WordPad format btw).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/si6vhxzbn7yw40g/Mnemosyne-WIP.rtf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tx6l95els5bf5j6/ShipdesignsREDONE-WIP.rtf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8ozmydqdibb9a9/Satis.rtf?dl=0

Some pictures of the Ra/Satis planetary system:

https://imgur.com/a/mUf47Un

EDIT - I'm not sure this is the right subforum for this but I don't know where else to put it. I'd like to ask admins to please move it to the approperiate section if this isn't the right one.

 

Interesting yet.... since realism is involved I will point out one thing.

 

Low g humans, or rather those born in low g conditions will be ill suited for higher accelerations. What I am saying is that it won't so much matter if a spaceship can do a 4g acceleration burn if the humans on it were adapted to say... mars gravity.

 

Low gravity humans would I think be restricted to slower accelerations by default, which means it would take them longer to get around the solar system than mark I humans from Earth.

Remote controlled, drone, and robot spaceships by comparison would be the fastest spaceships known.

 

An expanse type of scifi is interesting of course because human adventures go to weird environment of space. Yet when reality is applied it leads to the boring fact that humans are so ill suited for space that robots and drones would be prevail in space and humans would be secondary to them in importance for space travel.

Because

1. Robots and drones  do not require life support.

2. Do  not require anywhere near as much fuel.

3. And can get from point A to point B much faster.

 

I honestly think the only way humans would be more common in space than drones would be if speeds were equalized thanks to scifi inertial dampeners or some other scifi conceit.

In other words, then humans could actually survive high g acceleration without injury or discomfort and accelerate as fast as drones, robots, or even missiles. Although doing so would be more fuel costly then going slower.

[SunlitZelkova]

Nice. I feel that some SF can be a bit pompous in the way they consider that human survival is a guaranteed assurance, but this is done nicely.

One thing though- it is pretty unlikely nuclear war will actually cause a lowering of global temperatures, let alone limited nuclear war described in the 2060s.

Now its still science fiction so you can of course do as you please, but just a comment as a reader: considering the circumstances it might not make a difference anyways to eliminate that factor due to the geoengineering mentioned earlier.

[MichaelPoole]

16 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Although doing so would be more fuel costly then going slower.

This is why. Also, when you need to transport people, you transport people. When you need to colonize moons of Uranus, you transfer people. Drones may get from A to B faster but you are not sending robotical probes, you are sending coloniste. You have a point, partially,  If this was an actual Expense type scifi, then human physiology would be a great limit in acceleration especially for low gravity humans.

Except it is not. It lacks the high G, high specific drives of it. In Mnemosyne, as in the real world, high Isp, high thrust drives are rare - most used drives would still classify as "torchships" by modern standards but generally most civilian vessels have accelerations below 0.5 G. Many military vessels can use high accelerations but it **drastically** cuts fuel efficiency. Most of the ships in my settings use fusion drives for which you can increase the thrust by throwing in inert reaction mass (as opposed to fusion fuel) into the exhaust but that correspondingly decreases specific impulse aka fuel efficiency. Most of Mnemosyne ships put their crew in suspended animation for longer voyages also. It is not like "robots" are invulnerable to space dangers either, they need maintenance and special radiation hardened chips which are typically 2 decades behind their consumer counterparts.

I do have a page with some ship designs it in which I will post once I make it Wattspad ready.

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

One thing though- it is pretty unlikely nuclear war will actually cause a lowering of global temperatures, let alone limited nuclear war described in the 2060s.

Thank for for feedback but according to whom? I do not like the "follow the latest papers" style of hard scifi which pretends to be 100 percent accurate by exactly parroting often low quality scientific papers (which often directly contradict each other) and retconning itself endlessly to be as "real as possible". Nuclear winter is something still considered possible by many scienticists and from what I see on wiki, while a 2018 model predicted little cooling, another model a year after that predicted rather intense cooling, so I take these with a grain of salt. Besides, the cooling in Mnemosyne is far, far lower scale than the old nuclear winter scenarios predicted. Plus, is a long standing scifi and science trope tbh and I like it.

Geoengineering lacks the "humanity accidentally resolved one problem by causing another" vibe I was going for in that part tbh.

Don't get me wrong though, I appreciate the feedback !

Edited May 6, 2022 by MichaelPoole

[SunlitZelkova]

I'll be completely honest, it is not a specific paper (which would be a little lame to use for recommendation to a change of the story when there are just as many papers probably refuting it/arguing against it) so much as it is common sense-

1a. It is possible cities will not firestorm. Nagasaki didn't firestorm, and even then-

1b. It seems unlikely enough soot will either get high enough or remain aloft long enough to cause "nuclear winter" effects. The massive wildfires experienced here on the West Coast in 2020 were, in all likelihood, far worse than the types of fires that could be expected after a limited nuclear exchange in Southeast Asia, yet there hasn't been any real change in the climate.

2. There are a number of holes in some papers in favor of the hypothesis. Emphasis added.

Quote

A paper by the United States Department of Homeland Security, finalized in 2010, states that after a nuclear detonation targeting a city "If fires are able to grow and coalesce, a firestorm could develop that would be beyond the abilities of firefighters to control. However experts suggest in the nature of modern US city design and construction may make a raging firestorm unlikely".^[157] The nuclear bombing of Nagasaki for example, did not produce a firestorm.^[158] This was similarly noted as early as 1986–88, when the assumed quantity of fuel "mass loading" (the amount of fuel per square meter) in cities underpinning the winter models was found to be too high and intentionally creates heat fluxes that loft smoke into the lower stratosphere, yet assessments "more characteristic of conditions" to be found in real-world modern cities, had found that the fuel loading, and hence the heat flux that would result from efficient burning, would rarely loft smoke much higher than 4 km.^[11]

Quote

MIT meteorologist Kerry Emanuel similarly wrote in a review in Nature that the winter concept is "notorious for its lack of scientific integrity" due to the unrealistic estimates selected for the quantity of fuel likely to burn, the imprecise global circulation models used. Emanuel ends by stating that the evidence of other models point to substantial scavenging of the smoke by rain.^[168] Emanuel also made an "interesting point" about questioning proponent's objectivity when it came to strong emotional or political issues that they hold.^[11]

3. Cities have burned before during WWII (more of Tokyo burned than Hiroshima) but the smoke didn't cross the Pacific or remain in the atmosphere for long at all. Apart from happening with one bomb vs. thousands, there isn't much reason to think it will somehow be worse for modern cities when attacked with nuclear weapons, especially when construction materials and urban planning was rather poor before and during WWII to allow those things to occur in the first place.

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8 hours ago, MichaelPoole said:

Don't get me wrong though, I appreciate the feedback !

This is all merely a comment as a reader. You are not inclined to effect changes according to such criticism.

From a literary point of view, I think the story/world would/will be (is) much more interesting with you (the author) making the decisions regardless of "realism", even if it isn't "realistic"; much more interesting than a borderline-community-edited work. I simply wanted to offer the information in case you would like to make use of it. Not a "demand" or complaint or whatever