Duna Surveyor Challenge - Find the best locations for landers and bases on Duna

[It'snorocketscience]

Duna Surveyor Challenge - Find the best locations for landers and bases on Duna

The vast majority of challenges require you to build something that pushes the limits of the game. This one is different! Instead of building something, you must find something: Find the best possible landing site on Duna for bases and landers alike. You see, some sites on Duna are better to land at than others. Much better. Some are surrounded by rich Science biomes, while other areas border mountaintops, places that act as good launch sites for minimalist missions. The list of handy features goes on - sites near Easter Eggs are cool and easily recognizable from afar.

Your task is to pick a landing site that is as close as possible to as many useful features as possible. I’ve created some scoring charts to rank your sites, which appears later on in this post.

So, it’s time to go explore Duna! Deploy the mapping satellites, launch the surveyor planes, and pilot those scouting rovers. But what are we looking for, anyway?
 

The judging process - What makes a site good?

Duna landing sites are judged based on 3 things: How close they are to useful features, how steep they are, and how close they are to the equator or poles. I have created a scoring system that (hopefully) takes into account how useful and common these features are. Feel free to make suggestions.

Stage 1: Closeness to useful features:

Feature name:	Science Biome	Easter Egg	Launch Zone (Land above 6.5km)	Landing Zone (Land below 1km)	Peak of Eternal Light
Points earned if <200km:	2	2	N/A	N/A	N/A
Points earned if <20km:	4	4	3	3	4
Points earned if <2350m:	8	8	9	9	16
Points earned if touching:	N/A	16	27	27	64

 

Why distance requirements?

Spoiler

The distance requirements are selected based on the “15 minute rule” - I think most players don’t want to travel for more than 15 minutes to get somewhere. 3 common modes of transport on Duna set the 3 distance requirements:

• Under 200 km (35.8 degrees): A 15 minute one-way plane trip at 220 m/s.
• Under 20km (3.6 degrees): A 15 minute one-way rover trip at 20 m/s.
• Under 2350m (0.4 degrees): Within a 15 minute EVA jog, or a jetpack’s range. Also close enough for you to see other ships and for physics to work!

Here’s a handy rule of thumb: Duna’s circumference is 2000km, so one degree of latitude is equivalent to 5.55km. Longitude varies, so you might need a calculator for that. All landed crafts in KSP display their latitude and longitude values in map view.

 

What are these features? Why are some worth more points than others?

Spoiler

Some features are more common than others on Duna. 
The score goes up exponentially (2... 4... 8...) because it's easy to find a nice landing area within 200km of 3 features, but very hard to find 3 features within 2km of each other. Feel free to make suggestions.

Note: The points awarded may be changed in the future for balance reasons.

• Science biomes
  • This one is obvious. You may notice that biomes aren’t worth many points—they’re much more common than the other things on the list.
  • No points are awarded for touching a biome... all of Duna is covered in biomes, so you're guaranteed to be in one. Try to land near multiple biomes!
• Easter Eggs
  • Bases near Easter Eggs are cool and make your base easy to spot from a distance, but other than that, they aren’t very useful. So, despite their rarity, they aren’t worth much.
  • Any permanent Easter Eggs are OK, which means no Green Monoliths or Breaking Ground features.
• Launch zones - Terrain above 6.5km
  • A mountaintop is an excellent launchpad. A high mountain will save you a few hundred meters-per-second of dV, which is handy for minimalist missions and resupplying bases alike.
  • You can earn points if your site is within 20km (a 15 minute rover trip) of this. The idea is that a rover could tow rockets up the mountain to save fuel.
  • You can only earn points from a "launch zone" once. So multiple nearby mountains only count once.
• Landing zones - Terrain below 1km
  • A valley is an excellent runway. Spaceplanes and parachutes work very well in low-lying areas, great for resupplying bases.
  • You can earn points if your site is within 20km (a 15 minute rover trip) of this. The idea is that a rover could haul landed supplies to a nearby base.
  • You can only earn points from a "landing zone" once. So multiple nearby valleys only count once.
• Peak of Eternal Light
  • This fancy-sounding feature is special. At the poles of many planets in KSP, special high areas exist where the sun and Kerbin never drop below the horizon. At these places, you can generate endless solar power and communicate with Kerbin no matter what time of day it is! Besides, comsats are overrated.
  • You can only earn points from a "peak of eternal light" once. So multiple nearby peaks only count once.
  • (Yes, RTGs and fuel cells exist, but RTGs are only available late-game, and permanent fuel cells need an ISRU. Fuel cells also slow down ISRU production by 7.5%, unlike solar panels.)

Ore deposits and Breaking Ground features aren't included as those are randomly generated in each game.

 

Stage 2: Site Flatness

A landing site is useless if it’s a steep hill—your crafts will tip over! Your score from Stage 1 will be multiplied by this table:

Site Slope (steepness):	Points multiplier:
0°-10°	x1.2
10°-20°	x1
20°-30°	x0.8
30°-45°	x0.6
>45°	x0

If you don’t know how to measure slope, it’s easy. Simply land a flat object on the surface, turn off SAS, and watch your navball.
 

Stage 3: Site Latitude

“Latitude” means how far North or South your base is. In the case of Duna, there are two useful latitudes. Your score from Stage 1 and 2 will be multiplied by this table:

Site Latitude:	Points multiplier:
Within 10° of equator:	x1.2
Within 10° of N/S pole:	x1.2
Everywhere else:	x1

 

Why are points only awarded for the equator/poles?

Spoiler

• The Equator - latitudes +/- 10 degrees of the equator.
  • Equatorial bases and landers are always lined up with stations orbiting above the equator, unlike crafts at other latitudes.
  • This saves fuel - you will only need to burn at most 150 m/s of dV when aligning orbits with equatorial stations or bases. 
• The Poles - latitudes within 10 degrees of the North or South poles
  • Polar bases and landers can launch into any polar orbit at any time, which is handy for meeting up with polar space stations or travelling to distant biomes.

 

How to enter:

Find a good landing site, plant a flag, name it, take pictures of the landscape and coordinates (hover over the flag in map view), and post it. That’s it! I'll handle the rest, 3 submissions max per person.

After you post your site here, I’ll score it using the charts above. The site that scores the highest will have the honor of me landing my very first base on it, and the 2nd and 3rd sites will get landers and rovers… eventually. I’ll send screenshots, but until then, my Duna missions are waiting for you!
 

Leaderboard:

Spoiler

1. EveMaster's Polar Highlands site at -89.1641, 176.1450'
   Worth 103.68 points
2. TheFlyingKerman's Midland Canyons site at 2.2548 -17.2240
   Worth 95.04 points
3. RoninFrog's Midland Sea site at -2.938, -23.575
   Worth 67.68‬ points
    

 

Useful links and stuff:

You will need to find some maps and do research to complete this challenge. Here are some places to get started:

• My coordinates-to-distance calculator: - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11ahybKKvft5v7hfzkBEnTdFKhT_f-YsI3ITXKMeZDUw/edit?usp=sharing - I will use this to measure distances to nearby biomes, and you're free to use it too!  
• Official wiki page for Duna: https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Duna
• Unofficial KSP maps site: https://ksp.deringenieur.net/
• HyperEdit mod (to explore Duna quickly) - Nevermind, use your in game cheat menu for that
• Scansat, ISA Mapsat mods (to map out Duna’s features, slope, etc.)
• Your own KSP game—use cheats to turn on biome maps, manually scan Duna with probes, and explore!

 

Good luck!
 

Edited June 26, 2020 by It'snorocketscience
Added leaderboard entries.

[EveMaster]

1 hour ago, It'snorocketscience said:

• HyperEdit mod (to explore Duna quickly)

One tip: In the newest version 1.9.1 you can set your position on the surface using the Alt + F12 cheat menu. HyperEdit is no longer needed for that.

[It'snorocketscience]

5 hours ago, EveMaster said:

One tip: In the newest version 1.9.1 you can set your position on the surface using the Alt + F12 cheat menu. HyperEdit is no longer needed for that.

Oh cool, thanks.

By the way, what did you think of the scoring system I made up? Does it make sense or are some things worth too many/little points?

[EveMaster]

9 hours ago, It'snorocketscience said:

By the way, what did you think of the scoring system I made up? Does it make sense or are some things worth too many/little points?

You described the scoring system very precisely and well structured. You rarely see that in the first post for a challenge. Well done! I especially like that you put the reasoning for the scoring in spoiler tags.

I think the scoring is well balanced, if anything I'd say that the eternal peaks of lights are overpowered especially since they will also get the polar bonus. If such points exist I think they will score the highest. You could also make clear if you have to consider Ike eclipses for the eternal peaks of light.

[TheFlyingKerman]

I have just been to this place 2* 25' 48" N 17* 22' 40" W. Height is 572m, slope is about 7 degrees (see nav ball in the first pic) and is just as flat for many km. The site is at Midlands Canyon and I think there are 4 other biomes within 20km: Midland seas, highlands, midlands, lowlands.

 

http://www.imagehousing.com/image/ksp/1459283

http://www.imagehousing.com/image/ksp/1459284

 

 

[It'snorocketscience]

6 hours ago, EveMaster said:

I think the scoring is well balanced, if anything I'd say that the eternal peaks of lights are overpowered especially since they will also get the polar bonus. If such points exist I think they will score the highest.

Yeah, you might be right. There was some bias involved (I really want players to explore for something unique that's never been done before), but the peaks have some disadvantages.

For starters, the peaks of light are restricted to the extreme poles of Duna... it will be very hard to earn points for other things because the North and South poles are in the middle of nowhere and have very little biome variety. Also, peaks of eternal light, as the name implies, are usually located on top of mountains. It's quite likely that sites will get penalized for being too steep. But I'll consider nerfing that hefty 64-point bonus if too many entries focus on those peaks.

Quote

You could also make clear if you have to consider Ike eclipses for the eternal peaks of light.

I don't think Ike can eclipse the poles of Duna. I haven't verified it for sure, but I recall watching a normal Ike eclipse (from the equator of Duna) in map view... IIRC only Duna's lower latitudes were affected.

Edited June 23, 2020 by It'snorocketscience

[EveMaster]

I found a peak of eternal light. I no longer think that they are overpowered. "Launch zones" and "landing zones" are also hard to find near the poles.

On 6/23/2020 at 3:38 PM, It'snorocketscience said:

I don't think Ike can eclipse the poles of Duna. I haven't verified it for sure, but I recall watching a normal Ike eclipse (from the equator of Duna) in map view... IIRC only Duna's lower latitudes were affected.

You're right. Ike can be seen from near the poles but is lower than the sun on the horizon.

The position I found is the following:

Spoiler

The position is 89°16'41''S, 176°14'50'' E

1. Closeness to features:

• on peak of eternal light (64pts)
• In biome polar highlands.
• <20km: poles (4 pts)
• <200km: southern basin and polar craters (2x 2pts)
• no landing zones nearby
• no launch zones nearby, height is 6300m so it is just 200m short of being one.
• no easter eggs nearby

2. Site steepness:

• 0° - 10° (factor 1.2)
• Area flatter than 10° is about 90m x 350m , is that enough?

3. Site latittude

• within 10% of south pole. (factor 1.2)

total points:

72 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 103.68

[RoninFrog]

I was actually scouting for a good Duna base site today, so I may as well enter!  I'm actually planning on building a base here tomorrow.

Here's a picture of the spot I chose.  I'm not really sure what a "Science Biome" is, but you can do science here and there are five BG thingies within 1km.  I am planning on landing a spaceplane here, so it's a low altitude Landing Zone at less than 400 meters.

There are a few more reasons for this spot.  A big one is that the ore is in the double digits, the third best spot I found on the planet (in this save).  Another is that it's pretty equatorial, so I don't have to worry much about orbit inclination.  The third reason is that I have 24/7 line of sight to the spot on Ike where I am also planning on putting a base.  The fourth and final reason is that it is perfectly flat, so landing planes is easy and the base won't slide around.

Lemme know if the information in those two pictures is inadequate to score this properly.

Edit:  I would also recommend adding whether Ike is visible to the scoring.  The reasons are that it is possible to get constant coverage from an Ike lander relay, and that I would get more points. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by RoninFrog

[It'snorocketscience]

6 hours ago, EveMaster said:

I found a peak of eternal light. I no longer think that they are overpowered. "Launch zones" and "landing zones" are also hard to find near the poles.

You're right. Ike can be seen from near the poles but is lower than the sun on the horizon.

The position I found is the following:

  Reveal hidden contents

The position is 89°16'41''S, 176°14'50'' E

1. Closeness to features:

• on peak of eternal light (64pts)
• In biome polar highlands.
• <20km: poles (4 pts)
• <200km: southern basin and polar craters (2x 2pts)
• no landing zones nearby
• no launch zones nearby, height is 6300m so it is just 200m short of being one.
• no easter eggs nearby

2. Site steepness:

• 0° - 10° (factor 1.2)
• Area flatter than 10° is about 90m x 350m , is that enough?

3. Site latittude

• within 10% of south pole. (factor 1.2)

total points:

72 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 103.68

Very nice! I'm really happy to see a good peak of eternal light site. It makes for a very unique base location, even if it's far from science.

Your entry qualifies for the 0-10 degree flatness bonus and the polar bonus, and it does indeed add up to 103.68 points.

I will update the leaderboard to rank it as time goes on. Currently, it looks like you have the best spot, but I think I might've just found a good equatorial location to steal the throne... I'll get back to you on that. 

 

- - - - - 

2 hours ago, RoninFrog said:

I was actually scouting for a good Duna base site today, so I may as well enter!  I'm actually planning on building a base here tomorrow.

Here's a picture of the spot I chose.  I'm not really sure what a "Science Biome" is, but you can do science here and there are five BG thingies within 1km.  I am planning on landing a spaceplane here, so it's a low altitude Landing Zone at less than 400 meters.

[image]

There are a few more reasons for this spot.  A big one is that the ore is in the double digits, the third best spot I found on the planet (in this save).  Another is that it's pretty equatorial, so I don't have to worry much about orbit inclination.  The third reason is that I have 24/7 line of sight to the spot on Ike where I am also planning on putting a base.  The fourth and final reason is that it is perfectly flat, so landing planes is easy and the base won't slide around.

[image]

Edit: Your entry at -2.938, -23.575 is worth 67.68‬ points. Not bad, but try placing the site closer to multiple biomes.

Scoring:

Spoiler

Stage 1: Useful Features:

• Touching a Landing Zone (land <1km) = 27 points
• 1 Easter Egg within 200km = 2 x 2 = 4 points
• 1 biomes within 20km = 4 x 1 = 4 points (actually 28km, close enough)
• 6 biomes within 200km = 2 x 6 = 12 points

Stage 2: Flatness:

• Slope is under 10* = Score x 1.2

Stage 3: Latitude:

• Within <10* of equator = Score x 1.2

Total score: 67.68‬ points.

--- End of edit ---

 

Quote

I'm not really sure what a "Science Biome" is, but you can do science here and there are five BG thingies within 1km. 

A biome is an area of land on a planet or moon that lets you collect Science points. You can only repeat Science experiments a certain amount of times before they stop returning Science, but travelling to another biome lets you earn more Science. The KSP wiki has a map of biomes on each planet, and your own game's cheat menu has a "Show biomes" option.

Unfortunately, Breaking Ground features and ore deposits don't count in this challenge. They are randomly generated in each game, so if other people wanted to try out your spot, there's no guarantee they could mine ore or find the Breaking Ground stuff. But don't worry, your spot earns a good amount of points for other things! It qualifies for the equatorial and flatness bonus for sure. I'll calculate the score soon.

 

Edit: @RoninFrog

Quote

 I would also recommend adding whether Ike is visible to the scoring.  The reasons are that it is possible to get constant coverage from an Ike lander relay, and that I would get more points.

  I could do that, however there is one issue. If Ike is visible, and you're near the equator, Ike will sometimes get in between your solar panels and the sun or your antennas and Kerbin. You could get around this problem however by moving North or South so that you can still see Ike but Ike won't block the sun completely... let me know how it goes!

 

- - - - -

@TheFlyingKerman I got around to scoring your site:

On 6/23/2020 at 6:58 AM, TheFlyingKerman said:

I have just been to this place 2* 25' 48" N 17* 22' 40" W. Height is 572m, slope is about 7 degrees (see nav ball in the first pic) and is just as flat for many km. The site is at Midlands Canyon and I think there are 4 other biomes within 20km: Midland seas, highlands, midlands, lowlands.

[2 Images]

http://www.imagehousing.com/image/ksp/1459283

http://www.imagehousing.com/image/ksp/1459284

Your entry is worth 95.04 points. Good location!

Scoring:

Spoiler

Stage 1: Useful Features:

• Touching a Landing Zone (land <1km) = 27 points
• Within 20km of a Launch Zone (land <6.5km) = 9 points
• 1 Easter Egg within 200km = 2 x 1 = 2 points
• 1 biome within 2350m = 8 x 1 = 8 points
• 3 biomes within 20km = 4 x 3 = 12 points
• 4 biomes within 200km = 2 x 4 = 8 points (two of them are just a little over, but that's close enough)

Stage 2: Flatness:

• Slope is under 10* = Score x 1.2

Stage 3: Latitude:

• Within <10* of equator = Score x 1.2

Total score: 95.04 points.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by It'snorocketscience
Added scoring info, responses to other posters.