[1.12.x] CryoTanks: Liquid Hydrogen storage and management (Oct 25, 2021)

[Spaceman.Spiff]

7 hours ago, Apelsin said:

Oooh, looks like we're coming up on the methalox expansion release 

[Rockmonster0921]

22 hours ago, Nertea said:

Thanks, a video is probably useful, I haven't looked at your log yet but I will probably ask for some kind of screenshots in order to see the behaviour of the plugin and how your ship looks. Please ensure the DBS window is open and visible. I need to see what production and consumption numbers the plugin is detecting and from what parts. 

 

Edit: yes I will need to see your craft. Log is not very informative.

I couldn't replicate the bug so for now its a non-issue (strange because I was able to yesterday using the same craft) 
if it comes up again i will make sure to take a video

[Ozzy.R]

Hey, I've been experiencing a bug related to cryogenic boil off. After some testing I'm pretty confident that it's a problem that apereas when  Kerbalism is installed with CryoTanks .

The bug; when activating active cooling on a liquid hydrogen tank the cooling only works for about five seconds before it stops entirely.

Upon activation:  https://imgur.com/yVFRi2F

After five seconds: https://imgur.com/wWXmSw9

Here are some logs I found in the game directory, I don't know which ones are useful so I included all the ones I could find in a quick search: 

Spoiler

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GQBXZDnEAgvv3KM4hJUQdeh1N46rsWjv/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JYvCFM5mZRlktWuCxTPO8dB-REGQ5FeH/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12VjlKxcLRyEGxXUAttVH8_cJ95E143zo/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18KTFOt0h5ZOVFd17phL1JbesPiGOwRx2/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G9GhQZw6pU4gac7leVQcfbUVYNtUlyDn/view?usp=sharing

 

[Spaceman.Spiff]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy.R said:

Kerbalism is installed with CryoTanks

Doesn’t Kerbalism provide its own BoilOff system? 
if it does it’s likely conflicting

[Ozzy.R]

Oh, and here's my mods list: 

Spoiler

000_ClickThroughBlocker

001_ToolbarControl

B9PartSwitch

Bluedog_DB

BoulderCo

CommunityCategoryKit

CommunityResourcePack

CryoEngines

CryoTanks

CTTP

DeployableEngines

DMagicScienceAnimate

DynamicBatteryStorage

EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements

FarFutureTechnologies

HeatControl

InterstellarFuelSwitch

KerbalAtomics

KerbalEngineer

Kerbalism

KerbalismConfig

Kopernicus

Kronometer

ModularFlightIntegrator

ModuleManagerWatchDog

NearFutureAeronautics

NearFutureConstruction

NearFutureElectrical

NearFutureExploration

NearFutureProps

NearFutureSolar

NearFutureSpacecraft

OPM

RealisticAtmospheres

RealisticRescale

SCANsat

scatterer

Sigma

SpaceDust

SpaceTuxLibrary

SystemHeat

SystemHeatConverters

SystemHeatFissionEngines

SystemHeatFissionReactors

SystemHeatHarvesters

Waterfall

GroundEffect

 

 

[Ozzy.R]

43 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Doesn’t Kerbalism provide its own BoilOff system?

Does it? I haven't found a mention of boil off on the Kerbalism page. But I just had an idea, KerbalismConfig has a config file for cryo tanks. Maybe that's what's causing the problem.

[Ozzy.R]

Just tried deleting that file, didn't help the problem.

[MagicCuboid]

9 hours ago, Ozzy.R said:

Just tried deleting that file, didn't help the problem.

You'll want to mention this in the Kerbalism Forum or even better, raise it as an issue on the Kerbalism Github. To my knowledge, Kerbalism doesn't handle any cryogenic fuels specifically, but it does have its own modules for power usage and background resource tracking that is generally incompatible with Nertea's mods without patching. The Kerbalism devs are busy making 4.0, so new patches haven't been released in a while, but it's worth mentioning in case it's an easy fix.

Edited February 27, 2021 by MagicCuboid

[Ozzy.R]

Ok thanks, will do. 

[Nertea]

@Ozzy.R This is a problem with Interstellar Fuel Switch. If IFS is installed, CryoTanks gets out of the way and lets IFS do its thing to avoid conflicts. In your screenshots CT is not doing anything, that 'cryogenic fuel storage' UI element belongs to IFS. 

[flart]

// stock + cryotanks

125
Ore 2.5/s + 30EC/s = LF 0.22/s + Ox 0.28/s
Ore 2.5/s + 30EC/s = MP 0.5/s
Ore 2/s   + 50EC/s = LH2 141/s

250
Ore 0.5/s + 30EC/s = LF 0.45/s + Ox 0.55/s
Ore 0.5/s + 30EC/s = MP 1/s
Ore 1/s + 50EC/s = LH2 141/s

 

Convertotron 250 is giving 10 times more Lf+Ox per Ore, compared to the Convertotron 125, but just 2 times more CryoTanks resources (LH2 for example)

[Nertea]

Ooh, a beautiful candidate for a pull request!

[flart]

6 hours ago, Nertea said:

Ooh, a beautiful candidate for a pull request!

I am not sure how it was calculated originally, so I am not sure which one should be changed for 10 times difference.
For example, converters rate of cryotanks resource could be changes that the same amount of ore fills the same-sized tank in the same time.
But LH2 less dense, so maybe it's should respect that, and fill x2 of LF+OX? Or x3?

@JadeOfMaar How do you set up all converters values in the RR ?

[JadeOfMaar]

@flart I have a calculator spreadhseet (MS Excel only, sorry) which allows you to measure resources (up to 5 inputs and outputs) either by kilograms (always available) or molar mass (when available). Either way I can then see my mass ratios and whether they are equal; the input is too much or the output is too much (the spreadsheet will precisely say this, which is very convenient).

Once I have my numbers I setup the converter modules, and additionally, I have a system that tags converters with a multiplier key ( "RRPower" ) and automatically scales all the resource values for that part according to the multiplier. I also recalibrate the 1.25m Convert-O-Tron to not be deliberately crap and broken, because it is.

[Mystique]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:53 AM, Misguided Kerbal said:

Will version 1.5.6 work on a 1.9.1 install? I've been having a bug with fuel switch in the spaceplane fuel tanks, and I'd really like to fix that.

Just encountered this (I guess) bug: I had NF mod pack + mk2 expansions, all tanks had switches to choose fuel type in VAB. As soon as I've installed Cryotanks (with engines, atomics and FFT), switch appears only for cryo tanks and it's not showing up for regular tanks, structural/tank mk2 parts, etc. Nothing else was changed (besides installing dependencies like waterfall, space dust and system heat, but I don't think they have anything to do with tanks).

I've deleted MM's cache just in case and made clean reinstall of B9 and dependent mods (including all mentioned above) via CKAN (previously deleted CKAN's cache), but it didn't help. Removing Cryo tanks (and above dependent mods) resolved issue, now those parts have fuel switch again. Any ideas how to make them all work together? Really want to play with those FFT engines, but breaking other parts isn't a good way to start

[Nertea]

35 minutes ago, Mystique said:

Just encountered this (I guess) bug: I had NF mod pack + mk2 expansions, all tanks had switches to choose fuel type in VAB. As soon as I've installed Cryotanks (with engines, atomics and FFT), switch appears only for cryo tanks and it's not showing up for regular tanks, structural/tank mk2 parts, etc. Nothing else was changed (besides installing dependencies like waterfall, space dust and system heat, but I don't think they have anything to do with tanks).

I've deleted MM's cache just in case and made clean reinstall of B9 and dependent mods (including all mentioned above) via CKAN (previously deleted CKAN's cache), but it didn't help. Removing Cryo tanks (and above dependent mods) resolved issue, now those parts have fuel switch again. Any ideas how to make them all work together? Really want to play with those FFT engines, but breaking other parts isn't a good way to start

*shrug* I'm sure you have something else installed that is interfering. Can't do much without actual information, specifically looking for modlist, log, MM cache here. 

[PSA]

How do i remove the boil off?

 

[Mystique]

On 4/29/2021 at 11:37 PM, Nertea said:

*shrug* I'm sure you have something else installed that is interfering. Can't do much without actual information, specifically looking for modlist, log, MM cache here. 

Modlist (btw, installing tanks only didn't cause the issue; then cryoengines - still ok, but after adding atomics fuel switch disappeared for whole bunch of tanks (mainly stock ones); so it's not about FFT, but somehow related to atomics):

Spoiler

AT Utils (AT-Utils v1.9.6)
B9 Part Switch (B9PartSwitch v2.18.0)
BetterCrewAssignment (BetterCrewAssignment 1.4.1)
BetterTimeWarpContinued (BetterTimeWarpCont 2.3.12.6)
Breaking Ground (BreakingGround-DLC 1.6.0)
Chatterer (Chatterer 0.9.99)
Chatterer Extended (ChattererExtended 0.6.2)
ClickThrough Blocker (ClickThroughBlocker 1:0.1.10.15)
Community Category Kit (CommunityCategoryKit v5.2.0.0)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 1.4.2)
Configurable Containers (ConfigurableContainers 2.6.1)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.30.5)
Contract Pack: Bases and Stations Reborn (ContractConfigurator-KerbinSpaceStation 2:3.7.2.5)
Contract Pack: Exploration Plus (ContractConfigurator-ExplorationPlus 2.0.1)
Cryo Tanks (CryoTanks 1.6.0)
Cryo Tanks Core (CryoTanks-Core 1.6.0)
Cryogenic Engines (CryoEngines 1:2.0.1)
Decoupler Shroud (DecouplerShroud 0.7.2)
Deployable Engines Plugin (DeployableEngines 1.3.0)
Distant Object Enhancement Continued (DistantObject v2.0.2.0)
Distant Object Enhancement Continued default config (DistantObject-default v2.0.2.0)
DMagic Orbital Science (DMagicOrbitalScience 1.4.3)
Dock Rotate (DockRotate v1.11.0.53)
Docking Port Alignment Indicator (DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.9.2.2)
Docking Port Sound FX (DockingPortSoundFX v2.1.12)
Dynamic Battery Storage (DynamicBatteryStorage 2:2.2.2.0)
Easy Vessel Switch (EVS) (EasyVesselSwitch 2.2)
Editor Extensions Redux (EditorExtensionsRedux 3.4.2)
Engine Lighting Relit (EngineLightRelit 1.6.3)
Environmental Visual Enhancements - Stock Planet Config files (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements-HR 2:EVE-1.2.2-1)
Environmental Visual Enhancements Redux (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 3:1.11.2.1)
Field Training Facility (FieldTrainingFacility 1.2.0.0)
Filling Inventory Generously (FIG) (FIG v1.0.1)
Kerbal Actuators (KerbalActuators v1.8.3)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.13.0.0)
Kerbal Atomics (KerbalAtomics 1:1.2.1)
Kerbal Engineer Redux (KerbalEngineerRedux 1.1.8.3)
Kerbal Hacks: Droptank "Wrapper" (KerbalHacksDroptankWrapper 1.0)
KSP AVC (KSP-AVC 1.4.1.5)
Making History (MakingHistory-DLC 1.11.0)
MechJeb 2 (MechJeb2 2.12.0.0)
Mk2 Stockalike Expansion (Mk2Expansion 2:1.8.9.3)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 4.1.4)
My Antennae Never Go Offline (MANGO) (MANGO v1.1.0)
Near Future Construction (NearFutureConstruction 1.3.1)
Near Future Electrical (NearFutureElectrical 1.2.2)
Near Future Electrical Core (NearFutureElectrical-Core 1.2.2)
Near Future Exploration (NearFutureExploration 1.1.1)
Near Future IVA Props (NearFutureProps 1:0.6.4)
Near Future Launch Vehicles (NearFutureLaunchVehicles 2.1.3)
Near Future Propulsion (NearFuturePropulsion 1.3.3)
Near Future Solar (NearFutureSolar 1.3.1)
Near Future Solar Core (NearFutureSolar-Core 1.3.1)
Near Future Spacecraft (NearFutureSpacecraft 1.4.1)
RCS Build Aid (RCSBuildAid v1.0.6)
Real Plume (RealPlume 2:v13.3.2)
Real Plume - Stock Configs (RealPlume-StockConfigs v4.0.7)
RealChute Parachute Systems (RealChute v1.4.8.2)
ReCoupler (ReCoupler 1:1.3.5)
Reentry Particle Effect Renewed (ReentryParticleEffect 1.9.1.1)
scatterer (Scatterer 3:v0.0723)
Scatterer Default Config (Scatterer-config 3:v0.0723)
Scatterer Sunflare (Scatterer-sunflare 3:v0.0723)
ScienceAlert ReAlerted (ScienceAlert 1.9.8.9)
Ship Manifest (ShipManifest 6.0.2.0)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.8.14.0)
SpaceTux Library (SpaceTuxLibrary 0.0.6)
StageRecovery (StageRecovery 1.9.5.3)
Stockalike Mining Extension (StockalikeMiningExtension 1.1.6)
Surface Mounted Lights (surfacelights 1.18)
Targetron (Targetron v1.6.3)
The Janitor's Closet (JanitorsCloset 0.3.7.7)
Throttle Controlled Avionics (ThrottleControlledAvionics v3.7.2)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1:1.8.0.5)
Toolbar Controller (ToolbarController 1:0.1.9.4)
Universal Storage II (UniversalStorage2 1.9.1.2)
VABReorienter (VABReorienter 1.2)
Waterfall Core (Waterfall 0.6.3)
Zero MiniAVC (ZeroMiniAVC 1:1.1.0.1)

KSP.log (dropbox)

ModuleManager.ConfigCache

Many thanks for you attention!

Edited May 4, 2021 by Mystique

[Nertea]

10 minutes ago, Mystique said:

Modlist (btw, installing tanks only didn't cause the issue; then cryoengines - still ok, but after adding atomics fuel switch disappeared for whole bunch of tanks (mainly stock ones); so it's not about FFT, but somehow related to atomics):

  Hide contents

AT Utils (AT-Utils v1.9.6)
B9 Part Switch (B9PartSwitch v2.18.0)
BetterCrewAssignment (BetterCrewAssignment 1.4.1)
BetterTimeWarpContinued (BetterTimeWarpCont 2.3.12.6)
Breaking Ground (BreakingGround-DLC 1.6.0)
Chatterer (Chatterer 0.9.99)
Chatterer Extended (ChattererExtended 0.6.2)
ClickThrough Blocker (ClickThroughBlocker 1:0.1.10.15)
Community Category Kit (CommunityCategoryKit v5.2.0.0)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 1.4.2)
Configurable Containers (ConfigurableContainers 2.6.1)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.30.5)
Contract Pack: Bases and Stations Reborn (ContractConfigurator-KerbinSpaceStation 2:3.7.2.5)
Contract Pack: Exploration Plus (ContractConfigurator-ExplorationPlus 2.0.1)
Cryo Tanks (CryoTanks 1.6.0)
Cryo Tanks Core (CryoTanks-Core 1.6.0)
Cryogenic Engines (CryoEngines 1:2.0.1)
Decoupler Shroud (DecouplerShroud 0.7.2)
Deployable Engines Plugin (DeployableEngines 1.3.0)
Distant Object Enhancement Continued (DistantObject v2.0.2.0)
Distant Object Enhancement Continued default config (DistantObject-default v2.0.2.0)
DMagic Orbital Science (DMagicOrbitalScience 1.4.3)
Dock Rotate (DockRotate v1.11.0.53)
Docking Port Alignment Indicator (DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.9.2.2)
Docking Port Sound FX (DockingPortSoundFX v2.1.12)
Dynamic Battery Storage (DynamicBatteryStorage 2:2.2.2.0)
Easy Vessel Switch (EVS) (EasyVesselSwitch 2.2)
Editor Extensions Redux (EditorExtensionsRedux 3.4.2)
Engine Lighting Relit (EngineLightRelit 1.6.3)
Environmental Visual Enhancements - Stock Planet Config files (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements-HR 2:EVE-1.2.2-1)
Environmental Visual Enhancements Redux (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 3:1.11.2.1)
Field Training Facility (FieldTrainingFacility 1.2.0.0)
Filling Inventory Generously (FIG) (FIG v1.0.1)
Kerbal Actuators (KerbalActuators v1.8.3)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.13.0.0)
Kerbal Atomics (KerbalAtomics 1:1.2.1)
Kerbal Engineer Redux (KerbalEngineerRedux 1.1.8.3)
Kerbal Hacks: Droptank "Wrapper" (KerbalHacksDroptankWrapper 1.0)
KSP AVC (KSP-AVC 1.4.1.5)
Making History (MakingHistory-DLC 1.11.0)
MechJeb 2 (MechJeb2 2.12.0.0)
Mk2 Stockalike Expansion (Mk2Expansion 2:1.8.9.3)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 4.1.4)
My Antennae Never Go Offline (MANGO) (MANGO v1.1.0)
Near Future Construction (NearFutureConstruction 1.3.1)
Near Future Electrical (NearFutureElectrical 1.2.2)
Near Future Electrical Core (NearFutureElectrical-Core 1.2.2)
Near Future Exploration (NearFutureExploration 1.1.1)
Near Future IVA Props (NearFutureProps 1:0.6.4)
Near Future Launch Vehicles (NearFutureLaunchVehicles 2.1.3)
Near Future Propulsion (NearFuturePropulsion 1.3.3)
Near Future Solar (NearFutureSolar 1.3.1)
Near Future Solar Core (NearFutureSolar-Core 1.3.1)
Near Future Spacecraft (NearFutureSpacecraft 1.4.1)
RCS Build Aid (RCSBuildAid v1.0.6)
Real Plume (RealPlume 2:v13.3.2)
Real Plume - Stock Configs (RealPlume-StockConfigs v4.0.7)
RealChute Parachute Systems (RealChute v1.4.8.2)
ReCoupler (ReCoupler 1:1.3.5)
Reentry Particle Effect Renewed (ReentryParticleEffect 1.9.1.1)
scatterer (Scatterer 3:v0.0723)
Scatterer Default Config (Scatterer-config 3:v0.0723)
Scatterer Sunflare (Scatterer-sunflare 3:v0.0723)
ScienceAlert ReAlerted (ScienceAlert 1.9.8.9)
Ship Manifest (ShipManifest 6.0.2.0)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.8.14.0)
SpaceTux Library (SpaceTuxLibrary 0.0.6)
StageRecovery (StageRecovery 1.9.5.3)
Stockalike Mining Extension (StockalikeMiningExtension 1.1.6)
Surface Mounted Lights (surfacelights 1.18)
Targetron (Targetron v1.6.3)
The Janitor's Closet (JanitorsCloset 0.3.7.7)
Throttle Controlled Avionics (ThrottleControlledAvionics v3.7.2)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1:1.8.0.5)
Toolbar Controller (ToolbarController 1:0.1.9.4)
Universal Storage II (UniversalStorage2 1.9.1.2)
VABReorienter (VABReorienter 1.2)
Waterfall Core (Waterfall 0.6.3)
Zero MiniAVC (ZeroMiniAVC 1:1.1.0.1)

KSP.log (dropbox)

ModuleManager.ConfigCache

Many thanks for you attention!

Configurable Containers overrides all fuel switches as far as I know. So CryoTanks will not do anything to tans that CC touches. From inspecting the configs, this is correct. 

[Mystique]

14 hours ago, Nertea said:

Configurable Containers overrides all fuel switches as far as I know. So CryoTanks will not do anything to tans that CC touches. From inspecting the configs, this is correct. 

Interesting. Before adding cryotanks+atomics I had possibility to use both B9 switch (i.e. just choose LF+O/Mono/etc by switch) and also had CC button to customize tank. After adding cryotanks+atomics I still seem to have CC button, but that B9 switch is gone (for stock parts and mk2 expansions tanks at least), at the same time cryotanks have their B9 switch as intended. Will try to remove CC, perhaps it will solve the issue.

[Nertea]

9 hours ago, Mystique said:

Interesting. Before adding cryotanks+atomics I had possibility to use both B9 switch (i.e. just choose LF+O/Mono/etc by switch) and also had CC button to customize tank. After adding cryotanks+atomics I still seem to have CC button, but that B9 switch is gone (for stock parts and mk2 expansions tanks at least), at the same time cryotanks have their B9 switch as intended. Will try to remove CC, perhaps it will solve the issue.

Well, I don't know what to tell you - all I can say is that when I look in the cache, anything related to CryoTanks is not present on tanks, there's only ConfigurableContainers stuff. 

[Mystique]

On 5/5/2021 at 10:07 PM, Nertea said:

Well, I don't know what to tell you - all I can say is that when I look in the cache, anything related to CryoTanks is not present on tanks, there's only ConfigurableContainers stuff. 

It seems that removing CC did the trick, thanks again!

Now I just have to free up few hundreds of hours to play with atomics, cryo and FFT stuff..))

[Nertea]

So judging from the vast number of reports I've got in the last few days, I may need to change something with how other mods interact with CryoTanks.

The real primary problem boils down to the universal switcher for the stock tanks (and mod tanks). 

• CryoTanks patches all tanks that contain LF/O to have a B9PartSwitch based switcher, which gives options for LF/O,  LF, O, LH2, LH2O/, LCH4, LCH4/O
• This switcher only operates if a tank it touches has not been patched by one of
  • Interstellar Fuel Switch
  • Firespitter Fuel Switch (not frequently used these days)
  • ModularFuelTanks
  • Wild Blue Industries fuel switchers (convertible storage, resource switcher, omni switcher)
• There are also edge cases of things that remove what CryoTanks does, like Configurable Containers

I honestly don't know the best way to proceed. If a user has any of those mods installed, they'll have functional issues using stock tanks for 'my' fuels. 

• They may not have access to the correct fuels for engines (either the other fuel supplier doesn't include the right fuels)
• They may not have appropriate cost and mass balance, leading to over or underperforming engines

I'm open to suggestions. 

[lemon cup]

9 hours ago, Nertea said:

I'm open to suggestions. 

Did a little bit of brainstorming on this. To reiterate on your remarks, the problem stems from
   A) each fuel-switching mod possessing different resource definitions for what should be - as far as the end user is concerned - the same tangible resource (Liquid Hydrogen, for example).
   B) many end-users not understanding that said definitions cannot (rather, should not) be used simultaneously on the same tank. 

The two obvious trains of thought would be to either:
   -come together and settle on common resources definitions and tank switchers, then basically the "losers" would have to rewrite configs or their parts to change compatibilities - I think it's safe to say no one wants to do that - OR:
   -get a team together that is familiar with the balance meta present for Interstellar Fuel Switch and Configurable Containers, and have them provide patches to make CryoEngines and FFT engines reference those respective resource definitions if the :NEEDS [InterstellarFuelSwitch] (etc.)block is satisfied.  Also tedious and more importantly, detracts from the fine-tuned gameplay balance you worked very hard to craft.

But I have come up with a third option that may be possible. I wonder if a PLUGIN could be developed that scans MM patches and determines if multiple fuel switch mods are installed. If so, it could allow all fuel switching mods to patch tanks in their own unique ways under the hood, BUT, when the user selects any given tank in the VAB and right-clicks the Part Action Window - before showing any resource values - a large clearly-visible UI would pop up and force the user to manually select which of the available tank mods they would like that tank to be set up for. 

Perhaps it could also inform the user of faulty set-ups. For instance if the user places a tank and selects (InterstellarFuelSwitch) as it's tank type, but then attaches a CS-68 "Etna" Liquid Hydrogen Engine to it, the plugin would generate a notification that looked something like "Warning: the CS-68 'Etna' requires CryoTanks. Please select "CryoTanks" from the Tank Type Selector."

It's still a little messy but might be a good workaround for those who unknowingly (or knowingly) have different fuel-switch mods. For those of us who just stick to one fuel-switcher, the Plugin would not be necessary. 

Not sure who would be up for developing said plugin, but I know of several mod authors qualified to pull it off if that is something you decide to look into.

[Nertea]

5 hours ago, lemon cup said:

Did a little bit of brainstorming on this. To reiterate on your remarks, the problem stems from
   A) each fuel-switching mod possessing different resource definitions for what should be - as far as the end user is concerned - the same tangible resource (Liquid Hydrogen, for example).
   B) many end-users not understanding that said definitions cannot (rather, should not) be used simultaneously on the same tank. 

So there's a bit of subtlety here.

• Resource definitions are shared - this a feature of CRP. This means that functionally fuel densities, names and costs should be fine and identi
• The problem arises with the tank, which can have a a volume, dry mass and dry cost that varies depending on the mod that 'wins' the MM battle to be used on the tank. 
• A second problem arises when the tank switching mod that is winning the MM battle doesn't provide the resource that the other mod needs. Either something from CryoTanks is missing or CryoTanks messes up something from another mod. 
• There is another edge problem with some mods that mess with the actual resources (e.g. saying that Oxidizer should be replaced with LqdOxygen but that IMO maybe not need to be dealt with here

6 hours ago, lemon cup said:

   -come together and settle on common resources definitions and tank switchers, then basically the "losers" would have to rewrite configs or their parts to change compatibilities - I think it's safe to say no one wants to do that - OR:

Yeah I don't think we'd ever get IFS/CC to use a different switcher. 

6 hours ago, lemon cup said:

   -get a team together that is familiar with the balance meta present for Interstellar Fuel Switch and Configurable Containers, and have them provide patches to make CryoEngines and FFT engines reference those respective resource definitions if the :NEEDS [InterstellarFuelSwitch] (etc.)block is satisfied.  Also tedious and more importantly, detracts from the fine-tuned gameplay balance you worked very hard to craft.

To some extent this might be realistic. Some combinations can be eliminated (for example, FFT and KSPI-E installed together should always use KSPI-E's balance) and such. 

6 hours ago, lemon cup said:

But I have come up with a third option that may be possible. I wonder if a PLUGIN could be developed that scans MM patches and determines if multiple fuel switch mods are installed. If so, it could allow all fuel switching mods to patch tanks in their own unique ways under the hood, BUT, when the user selects any given tank in the VAB and right-clicks the Part Action Window - before showing any resource values - a large clearly-visible UI would pop up and force the user to manually select which of the available tank mods they would like that tank to be set up for. 

I would hate to be the person who owns that, they would need to be constantly up to date on all the switchers and adapt to ensure the plugin was constant.

A more limited approach to at least inform the user that something is wrong might be more possible.