Fairings with holes in the bottom

[catloaf]

This is a feature that could have very specific but usually useful features. It would be a special fairing that has a bottom similar to a decoupler, engines can fire through it and parts can go through it. This could have very specific uses but complement the open fairings very nicely.

[James M]

I get why this is a cool idea, but I also have to say I imagine it would be quite difficult to program in a way that would both work and not make things worse than they already are. As of right now, and for the purposes of simplicity, once you put a fairing around something, it essentially eliminates it's drag value. By putting a hole in the fairing, you'd be re-applying all the drag values of all the objects inside the fairing. As a result, your craft would end up flying like it didn't have a fairing in the first place. This is unrealistic obviously. IRL I imagine this would be more like opening a cargo bay on a plane and causing quite a bit of turbulence during flight. In order to do what you're suggesting, the devs would have to restructure how drag actually functions in the game to be based on direction of travel, direction craft is facing, direction of both passive and active air particle movement, lifting bodies and all that mumbo jumbo fluid dynamics stuff I am 100% not experienced with. But I imagine, not only would it be really complex to program but I would be willing to bet the sheer amount of continuous processing necessary for this would probably slow the game down dramatically at worst and if it still somehow worked, would severely hinder flight stability at best. 

Feel free to criticize me here btw. I won't mind. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by James M

[OHara]

Is the image at right, with a fairing turned upside down, what you are suggesting?
Or do you mean a fairing open on both sides (somewhat like the part called 'Structural Tube') ?

It is tricky to put the decoupler on the correct 'interstage node' of the fairing.

There is also a bug that makes this kind of fairing hold on to the detached stage until we quicksave/quickload (or switch to another craft and back) -- or we can avoid the bug by making the root part something in the booster section.

KSPs rules for drag do count the fairing as open if it is open at one end; and people do trick KSP into thinking the fairing is closed for purposes of drag, but open for purposes of the engine thrust, but I don't think that has any effect on your suggestion.

Edited June 26, 2020 by OHara

[catloaf]

44 minutes ago, James M said:

I get why this is a cool idea, but I also have to say I imagine it would be quite difficult to program in a way that would both work and not make things worse than they already are. As of right now, and for the purposes of simplicity, once you put a fairing around something, it essentially eliminates it's drag value. By putting a hole in the fairing, you'd be re-applying all the drag values of all the objects inside the fairing. As a result, your craft would end up flying like it didn't have a fairing in the first place. This is unrealistic obviously. IRL I imagine this would be more like opening a cargo bay on a plane and causing quite a bit of turbulence during flight. In order to do what you're suggesting, the devs would have to restructure how drag actually functions in the game to be based on direction of travel, direction craft is facing, direction of both passive and active air particle movement, lifting bodies and all that mumbo jumbo fluid dynamics stuff I am 100% not experienced with. But I imagine, not only would it be really complex to program but I would be willing to bet the sheer amount of continuous processing necessary for this would probably slow the game down dramatically at worst and if it still somehow worked, would severely hinder flight stability at best. 

 

It's not for aerodynamics, it's a structural part. Kinda like a MH structural tube that can be resized like a fairing or closed at the end. Also the aero model could treat it like a fairing if the more in the bottom node is occupied and as a cargo bay if it is not. (I know this could be abused but for 99% of players it won't matter.)

 

[James M]

3 minutes ago, catloaf said:

It's not for aerodynamics, it's a structural part. Kinda like a MH structural tube that can be resized like a fairing or closed at the end. Also the aero model could treat it like a fairing if the more in the bottom node is occupied and as a cargo bay if it is not. (I know this could be abused but for 99% of players it won't matter.)

 

How would you use this?

[catloaf]

To build Atlas style 1\2 stages that don't rely engine shrouds or offset fairings, more unique cargo bays and surface bases that are larger than mk3 cargo bays and have interiors. Pretty much anything that could be done with procedural structural tubes.

28 minutes ago, James M said:

How would you use this?

Anything that could be done with a procedural structural tube like 1\2 stages massive surface bases with interiors and just as a general structural part.

Sorry for the weird comment, it was auto merged with another that I thought I had not posted and now I can't edit it

[James M]

31 minutes ago, catloaf said:

To build Atlas style 1\2 stages that don't rely engine shrouds or offset fairings, more unique cargo bays and surface bases that are larger than mk3 cargo bays and have interiors. Pretty much anything that could be done with procedural structural tubes.

Oh it's all good. I see what you're talking about though. That would be pretty pretty interesting I guess. I'm not very creative so I couldn't really visualize it until you said it like this. 

[Blaarkies]

You can do this already, but it needs a hack unfortunately

Build a craft such that 
^
top
fairing(upside down)
reliant engine
nosecone(upside down)


Now click-build the fairing so that it ends onto the nosecone on the engine bottom. The fairing will be closed and done, now use the move gizmo on the nosecone to clip it deep into the engine.

The aerodynamics will function based on the pre-gizmo shape? But the engine exhaust will be able to exit correctly. Just use a different nosecone object to modify the fairing hole size, and move the nosecone a bit before building the fairing to adjust it's exit.

Its not the cleanest solution, doesn't work well with copying parts around, but you can make some amazing Eve accent vehicles with this

Edited June 26, 2020 by Blaarkies

[catloaf]

Update: so most of what I wanted can already be done with MH engine plates.