Which planet/moon i go after taking all the research from Minmus and Mün?

[Dat Kerbal Dude]

7 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

It's also incredibly easy to brake into Eve orbit. Though I'm not recommending landing on Eve - just Gilly.

because Eve's atmosphere is Evil to any kind of object who pass it,so a High tech Probe should be enough to Succesfully land it.

and to land Gilly can be done even with Monopropellant RCS... or in EVA...

[Fraktal]

17 minutes ago, Kane Kerman said:

because Eve's atmosphere is Evil to any kind of object who pass it

Someone really should make a chart for listing safe aerobraking altitude ranges for each celestial body with an atmosphere. I mean, we already have a delta-V map, so...

[catloaf]

I actually prefer doing Ike to Gilly, you can still build a very small lander, but getting to Duna is easier, because you can safely aerobreak, the mission profile I use is having all my science on the Ike lander, as well as my Kerbin re-entry capsule, and only leave tanks in low Ike orbit, and use two radial nerv engines as my propulsion for the entire mission beyond lko.

Wow, a textbook run on sentence! I will keep it (because I'm lazy!)

[Dat Kerbal Dude]

4 minutes ago, catloaf said:

getting to Duna is easier, because you can safely aerobreak

this is because Duna's Atmospherical Pressure is below 0.1

while Eve's Atmospherical Pressure is quite more than 5.

according to KSP Wiki...

however...

DON'T LET THE PLANETS DECEIVE YOU!

Sometimes,you think that going to Eve's Surface is quite easy,unless if you are on a Flyby Trajectory,this kind of effect could Ruin your landing mission,because when getting to the atmosphere,the planet will slow your velocity by attempting to take you down,depending the atmospherical properties!

Jool and Eve are Evil to any kind of Object who pass throught it,so a Small heat Shield will not be enough to survive the aerobraking Phase.

Kerbin(and Laythe?) are quite normal...

Duna is Peacefull to anything who pass through it,Landing on it without a Heat Shield is possible.

(am i wrong?)

[noname_hero]

Aerocapture into Eve orbit is easy if you know what you're doing. But my experience with aerobraking around Kerbin was inadequate for what Eve had in store for me during my first visit. Diving ten or twenty kilometers into atmosphere of Kerbin or Duna is usually a pretty safe thing for a beginner ship. Trying the same around Eve is not.

For Eve, the craft better be designed for aerocapture at Eve, or you'll probably have to spend some more dV first and then spend a *looong* time gently aerobraking into a circular orbit. I know, because I did so during my first visit.

But I've been able to take a Mun lander, make some very small modifications to it, and fly a Dunpollo mission with it. Setting the parachutes to open at max height and minimum pressure means one's experience with parachute landings from Kerbin is enough to safely bring a lander within 1km of Duna at under 50 m/s. And the parachutes plus low gravity mean the experience with landing burns one gains visiting Mun is enough to help one safely slow down for the final 100m of the journey down.

So for a *first* interplanetary mission, I'd say Duna is the easier option. Sure, Eve sans liftoff is basically the same, plus you need more dV and/or a heat shield, but it is a bit more work and you don't get the satisfaction one gets from having one's kerbals plant a flag on another planet and then get home alive.

[Bill Phil]

37 minutes ago, catloaf said:

I actually prefer doing Ike to Gilly, you can still build a very small lander, but getting to Duna is easier, because you can safely aerobreak, the mission profile I use is having all my science on the Ike lander, as well as my Kerbin re-entry capsule, and only leave tanks in low Ike orbit, and use two radial nerv engines as my propulsion for the entire mission beyond lko.

Wow, a textbook run on sentence! I will keep it (because I'm lazy!)

Aerobraking may not be safe at Eve but it's mostly unnecessary - just get as close as you can to the atmo without going into it and then use engines to brake into a highly elliptical orbit. After all, the plan is to go to Gilly anyways, so why brake all the way into Low Eve Orbit? Just brake into an extremely elliptical orbit and then circularize at apoapsis. Then plan a transfer to Gilly. Can do it with a little more than a Minmus rocket since Eve takes less delta-v than Duna to transfer to. Total delta-v to Gilly should be less than Ike by a few hundred m/s. Aerobraking can change this, but Gilly takes less to land on. Plus Eve's SOI is massive so it's a lot easier to encounter. For beginner interplanetary missions, a mission to Eve is a good one. Then you can practice rendezvous with Gilly and get Eve orbit science. 

[DerekL1963]

If you propulsively brake into low Eve orbit, it's astonishingly easy to land on.  Sure, sure, it's got killer gravity - but it's also got a very thick (read: draggy) atmosphere.  You don't even really need to land, you can get quite a bit of science from the upper and lower atmosphere.

Ike is an easy destination for high/low orbit science.   Once you brake into low Duna orbit, it doesn't take much to transfer to Ike orbit.

Even with only stock instruments and standard settings, there's enough science out there that you don't need to sweat returning to complete the tech tree.

[Xavven]

IMO, the progression from easiest to hardest is:

1. Kerbin orbit
2. Mun
3. Minmus
4. Ike
5. Gilly
6. Duna
7. Eve (landing only, no return)
8. Dres
9. Jool system (except Tylo landing)
10. Eeloo
11. Moho
12. Tylo landing/return
13. Eve return

The only reason I put Gilly before Duna is that Gilly requires so little delta-v to move around that it's worthwhile to get there to trigger contracts like "get temperature readings from these locations on the surface". You send one lander with a thermometer, pressure sensor, accelerometer, and gravioli detector with ~3000 m/s of dV on the lander stage and your money problems are over. Each contract will only use about 100 m/s from the existing lander, so you can complete a bunch of them before running out of fuel.

Also, the Jool system might be harder to get to than Dres, but in terms of science it's far more worth it. You can collect a metric ton of science with a fly-by/orbit probe that neither lands on anything nor returns to Kerbin, but that swings around every moon, high orbit and low orbit, transmitting science back. If you have gravioli by this point then it can complete the rest of the tech tree.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Xavven

[catloaf]

1 hour ago, Bill Phil said:

Aerobraking may not be safe at Eve but it's mostly unnecessary - just get as close as you can to the atmo without going into it and then use engines to brake into a highly elliptical orbit. After all, the plan is to go to Gilly anyways, so why brake all the way into Low Eve Orbit? Just brake into an extremely elliptical orbit and then circularize at apoapsis. Then plan a transfer to Gilly. Can do it with a little more than a Minmus rocket since Eve takes less delta-v than Duna to transfer to. Total delta-v to Gilly should be less than Ike by a few hundred m/s. Aerobraking can change this, but Gilly takes less to land on. Plus Eve's SOI is massive so it's a lot easier to encounter. For beginner interplanetary missions, a mission to Eve is a good one. Then you can practice rendezvous with Gilly and get Eve orbit science. 

But Eve's inclination makes it harder, plus Ike is much closer to Minmus than Gilly (in terms of landing procedure.) As you can see though, it doesn't really matter which you pick, especially if you don't plan to land. Once you do either a mission to Eeloo or one of Jool's moons is I  your grasp and you can complete the tech tree, however, I think Ike is better for beginners because it's simpler even though it may require a little more dV. Although it may be unnecessary, once you unlock the nerv a mission Eeloo or Bop is very much possible, and even a Jool 5 for a skilled player. Also it depends on if you can dock or not, if you can you can do Gilly, Ike, Dres, Duna or Bop, and if not it's best to do Gilly.

Edited August 6, 2020 by catloaf

[Bill Phil]

27 minutes ago, catloaf said:

But Eve's inclination makes it harder, plus Ike is much closer to Minmus than Gilly (in terms of landing procedure.) As you can see though, it doesn't really matter which you pick, especially if you don't plan to land. Once you do either a mission to Eeloo or one of Jool's moons is I  your grasp and you can complete the tech tree, however, I think Ike is better for beginners because it's simpler even though it may require a little more dV. Although it may be unnecessary, once you unlock the nerv a mission Eeloo or Bop is very much possible, and even a Jool 5 for a skilled player. Also it depends on if you can dock or not, if you can you can do Gilly, Ike, Dres, Duna or Bop, and if not it's best to do Gilly.

Eve is the easiest planet to get to, it's SOI is quite large and it takes the least delta-v to escape Kerbin. 

[noname_hero]

39 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

Eve is the easiest planet to get to, it's SOI is quite large and it takes the least delta-v to escape Kerbin. 

I don't know how long you've been playing KSP, but I'd guess you have lots of experience. I don't, because I only bought it like last October or so. And I'm afraid your experience makes it more difficult for you to imagine yourself in a newbie-ish player's place. Duna is newbie-friendly. You need next to no inclination changes, a Poodle is enough to get you there and back, parachutes work, your skills do transfer pretty well and I've actually posted a picture of a Duna lander here that's basically a Mun lander with more Terriers.

A newbie-ish player can land on Duna, plant a flag, get the satisfaction of *finally* making it to another planet, and get those kerbonauts back home alive. Bonus points for visiting Ike.

Eve is a torture chamber that first tries to fry you if you attempt an aerocapture and then mocks you for your inability to leave should you try to plant that flag. You as a player learn next to no new skills when visiting Gilly compared to visiting Ike.

Sure, one can visit Eve and land on Gilly with low tech and farm science there. But the learning curve is steeper and the emotional reward much smaller.

[Bill Phil]

7 minutes ago, noname_hero said:

I don't know how long you've been playing KSP, but I'd guess you have lots of experience. I don't, because I only bought it like last October or so. And I'm afraid your experience makes it more difficult for you to imagine yourself in a newbie-ish player's place. Duna is newbie-friendly. You need next to no inclination changes, a Poodle is enough to get you there and back, parachutes work, your skills do transfer pretty well and I've actually posted a picture of a Duna lander here that's basically a Mun lander with more Terriers.

A newbie-ish player can land on Duna, plant a flag, get the satisfaction of *finally* making it to another planet, and get those kerbonauts back home alive. Bonus points for visiting Ike.

Eve is a torture chamber that first tries to fry you if you attempt an aerocapture and then mocks you for your inability to leave should you try to plant that flag. You as a player learn next to no new skills when visiting Gilly compared to visiting Ike.

Sure, one can visit Eve and land on Gilly with low tech and farm science there. But the learning curve is steeper and the emotional reward much smaller.

Duna may be friendly to newcomers but Eve is easier to get to - probes and orbiters are easier. It's the easiest to get to but the hardest to get off of. Which is why I recommend going for Gilly. Eve is easy to get to and then you go to Gilly.

You need inclination changes sure. But you need that for Minmus too. So you should have that down already.

A Poodle can get you to Eve and back easy. In fact I recommend using 1.25 meter parts - you don't need 2.5 meter parts for Gilly.

Eve is only a torture chamber if you try to aerobrake and land. Which is why I'm saying don't try to. If you're going for Gilly you just brake into a highly elliptical orbit. Then it's easy (in terms of delta-v) to go back to Kerbin. This is because Gilly is so high up in Eve's gravity well that a lot of the work is already done.

Players learn plenty of new skills if they go to Gilly as their first interplanetary trip. Dealing with small SOIs, dealing with inclination changes if they haven't already, dealing with immensely low gravity, and returning to Kerbin from higher orbits. In fact I would argue that Duna-Ike has much fewer new skills - no need to change inclination as you previously mentioned, Ike is very similar to the Mun, and Duna just adds a thin atmosphere. But the low gravity of Gilly is more challenging than the thin atmosphere of Duna if you ask me, if only because you have to be more precise.

As you mention Duna is more friendly to new players. And that's part of why I recommend Gilly. Because Duna is too friendly. It's too easy, just another rock. Gilly has much lower gravity which necessitates a more precise play style on it - which is a skill that is useful in general. And you can use a Mun rocket. Which is another reason. You don't have to spend much time in the VAB at all - you can just add some fuel, science, and go (waiting for the transfer window, of course). Then it becomes more about your piloting skill and not your building skills. It's because it's a bit more challenging than Duna but also can be done with a rocket you already have that I recommend it. The total difficulty taking into account both game aspects is less. Gilly can be done with a rocket you already have. 

I may be unique, but I have much more fond memories of my Gilly mission than my Duna mission. I'm still proud of my screenshot where you can see the shadow of a Kerbal and his spaceship against the surface. One of the best missions I've ever flown. And with Eve in the sky it's incredibly beautiful. 

[noname_hero]

As you've mentioned, Duna is more friendly to new players. And that's exactly why so many of us recommend it - because this topic seems like a question from a new player. I think even official stats show that most players never make it to another planet, so my view is that an easier first interplanetary mission means a better chance of it being a success. And a better chance the new-ish player will keep playing and trying to get even better.

My own first mission to Gilly left me underwhelmed. I've already had to deal with a small-ish SOI when going to Duna, with inclination changes when going to Minmus, with returns from a high orbit going home from both Minmus and Duna, and the very low gravity you mention made everything seem even easier to me. The only thing I've learned was that I wasn't ready for aerobraking at Eve.

You're right about the Duna mission teaching me about as much as the Gilly mission. But I've felt like I've conquered a planet, not just a moon.

And I guess it is a good thing we have different perspectives and memories of those learning times. The OP can read it all and make a guess at what he might enjoy more.

[catloaf]

The fact is Duna is better, any saving gained from the transfer to Eve can be remedied at Duna, because you can aerobrake without specialized hardware, so you don't need to lug around heat shields or extra fuel. Also, Duna isn't that hard to hit, especially with mods like transfer window planner.

[Bill Phil]

3 minutes ago, catloaf said:

The fact is Duna is better, any saving gained from the transfer to Eve can be remedied at Duna, because you can aerobrake without specialized hardware, so you don't need to lug around heat shields or extra fuel. Also, Duna isn't that hard to hit, especially with mods like transfer window planner.

You don’t need extra fuel, it’s just helpful for extra margin to make up for mistakes. There’s no saving in going to Eve, you’re looking at two different missions with two different rockets.

Again, a Mun rocket can do a Gilly mission. No aerobrake needed. No changes needed - only new science experiments and probably getting rid of landing legs. But the rocket itself would be the same. The only changes are on the lander - and they’re minor changes. Some extra fuel would be helpful. Maybe a heat shield if you’re worried but you can get rid of most of the ablator. But it isn’t strictly necessary.

[KerbalKiller2000]

Duna is probably one of the easiest interplanetary missions. Gilly is also pretty easy to get to as well.

[Lewie]

I would recommend Duna. It’s easy to get to-very small inclination change, aerobraking, and the atmosphere allows parachutes while it’s still tenuous enough to make ascending from the surface a breeze. Gilly is much cheaper in terms of deltav, but getting an encounter and messing around with inclination will take a very long time. I do. Not recommend Gilly to newbies for this reason. It’s harder to get an encounter with gilly then it is to dock. (Seriously!) So do Duna and Ike, and by then you should have orbital maneuvers down cold. At this point, gilly should prove to be quite fun and easy, while providing a fun challenge. Good luck, most people never make it to this stage!

[cubinator]

Unmanned probes to Eve can be quite fun. Maybe you can try to send a rover to one of the planets. The Jool system is easy enough to fly around as long as you've got a big enough antenna.

[catloaf]

The progression is Eve probe than crewed Ike than crewed Duna. Gilly is hard for a newbie and even I waste a lot of dV on inefficient maneuvers when going to Gilly. Eve is the easiest for a probe because all you need to do is launch a probe with drouge and regular parachutes, science, solar panels and an antenna. Above it in a fairing with two heat shields stacked on top of each other (in case one explodes) then send it in an impact trajectory with Eve. The atmosphere will slow it down before reaching the surface and then once your going slow jettisom the heat shields and deploy fairing and the drouges to get slowed down to a safe speed for the main chutes, deploy the main chutes about 800 meters above the surface and slowly drift down.

[Xavven]

8 hours ago, catloaf said:

Gilly is hard for a newbie and even I waste a lot of dV on inefficient maneuvers when going to Gilly.

That's a good point. It took me a lot of trial and error before I settled on my current plan for Gilly.

1. Start with a low Eve PE on the intercept
2. Lower the AP to about Gilly's altitude on the orbital insertion burn
3. Go to AP and raise PE to about Gilly's altitude as well
4. Orbit is now slow enough that inclination change isn't expensive.

However, this assumes you also get yourself a low inclination in a mid-course correction on the way to Eve. Which, yeah as a newbie I never knew to do this or even how to do this.

[Lewie]

54 minutes ago, Xavven said:

That's a good point. It took me a lot of trial and error before I settled on my current plan for Gilly.

1. Start with a low Eve PE on the intercept
2. Lower the AP to about Gilly's altitude on the orbital insertion burn
3. Go to AP and raise PE to about Gilly's altitude as well
4. Orbit is now slow enough that inclination change isn't expensive.

However, this assumes you also get yourself a low inclination in a mid-course correction on the way to Eve. Which, yeah as a newbie I never knew to do this or even how to do this.

It’s pretty easy, actually!

after you get an encounter with Eve, about halfway to your encounter on your orbit, just make a maneuver node. Use the maneuver node gizmo to gradually tweak your orbit to your liking. Bam!

It’s going to take a while to get a gilly encounter,  but all you have to do is get those gray encounter markers really close, and keep on tweaking your orbit to get said encounter. Good luck!

[Kermandd]

Gilly. It requires less dv to get to than The Mun with the right transfer window. Search up “KSP dv map”; it’s the first image; You’ll see what I mean

[Kermandd]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:08 PM, N_Danger said:

 Duna is my go to for the first interplanetary mission. A mun lander with added parachutes will work there easily enough. Ike is nearby also.

  With a good launch window, it is not that much more d/v required for the mission over going to the Mun.

 

YOUR THE MUN LANDER WILL NOT BE SUFFICIENT! You more dv for Duna. This is incorrect