Poll on Multi-Window support

[mcwaffles2003]

What I mean by multi-window support:

One instance of the game running that has multiple windows. They can be laid atop one another (single monitor) or separated on multiple monitors.

This is not having a single window span multiple monitors. Nor does it necessitate playing in "windowed mode" (as in not "full screen")

 

 

The intended purpose of this would to have multiple windows open for showing separate facets of the game simultaneously (Ideally, each window would take a monitor for a multi-monitor setup), for example:

One window could display the kerbal craft being flown with the typical KSP in flight UI while another window constantly displays the map with orbit information. Perhaps another window could be dedicated to holding specific UI information such as the KER/mechjeb windows most of us are acquainted with.

 

Now I would like to run the poll questions by everyone to make sure they meet the approval of the community here. The objective is simply to gather data on the preferences of the community surrounding this topic, such as; how many people does this apply to and in what ways?, is this a feature that is desirable or undesirable?, if it is desirable would it be worth the cost of added delay to launch if a delay were necessary to implement and is so to what extent?

 

I would like to create the poll questions in this comment and get a general consensus of approval before I open the poll for everyone  to vote on it. Please make your comments and criticism on the manner of the questions/responses known.

 

Do you want for the game to have multi-window support (multiple independent windows on the desktop)

1. Yes
2. No
3. No opinion

Would you use the described above if it were included in the game?

1. Yes
2. No

If yes to question 1, would including this feature be worth any delay in the release of KSP 2 to you? If yes, how long?

1. No, if it causes delays don't include it in launch and add it in an update.
2. Yes, 2 weeks
3. Yes, a month
4. Yes, 3 months
5. Yes, longer than 3 months

SO.... 

Does anybody object to the wording of the questions and responses?

Feel free to ask for another option if you see your desired reply missing then wait for it to appear before voting

Edited July 30, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[razark]

3 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Please make your comments and criticism on the manner of the questions/responses known.

I think that some people are deliberately making the question more complicated than it needs to be in order to cloud the issue in support of their views.

Edited July 26, 2020 by razark

[Brofessional]

You should probably make a strawpoll or something. Anyway, yes I would use it but no it's not worth a delay. It could simply be added post-release.

 

That said having multiple Unity windows up isn't necessary. Simple browser integration would be adequate. It has a very low impact on performance and extends the feature to not just those with multiple monitors, but anyone with a tablet or smartphone.

[problemecium]

1. Probably, though I can't predict with certainty without a frame of reference. I only have one monitor currently due to space constraints, but having multiple monitors seems like it should come with the ability to customize what's on which monitor.

2. Longer than 3 months. Shorter waits are naturally preferable all things equal but we already have a KSP 1 and I'm fine with waiting as long as it takes to make sure KSP 2 gets done right.

Failing multiple window support (I'm not certain Unity even allows this... they are still using Unity, no?), an evolution of in-game windows would be a big deal, esp. for having the map view and ship visible at the same time. I'm not sure if they've already made mention of this or I just imagined it xP

[The Aziz]

It's the 4th thread regarding the same thing.

[mcwaffles2003]

4 hours ago, Brofessional said:

You should probably make a strawpoll or something. Anyway, yes I would use it but no it's not worth a delay. It could simply be added post-release.

Ill add the poll tuesday morning or something so there is ample time for people to see the questions to critique their "bias"

2 hours ago, The Aziz said:

It's the 4th thread regarding the same thing.

I feel you man but I asked the questions wrong and came off as biased I guess so Im making it again so people stop complaining to and PMing me, asked the mods to delete the last poll so there won't be 2 nearly identical polls next to each other on the forums.

[pandaman]

Yeah, turned out to be a little less straightforward than it initially appeared.  I certainly hadn't fully grasped the implications of the difference between 'multi window' and 'multi monitor'. 

[linuxgurugamer]

13 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

f no to question 1, would you be opposed to the inclusion of this feature?

I feel that this question is inherently biased.  IMHO, you should confine the poll to the desirability of the feature only, and if the person would use it.  Anything else will add bias

[mcwaffles2003]

22 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

you should confine the poll to the desirability of the feature only, and if the person would use it.

Are you for real? You literally argued directly against this exact question in the thread.......................................................

Quote

  On 7/24/2020 at 4:00 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

A better phrasing might be:

• Assuming that there was multi-monitor support in the game, would you use it?
  • Yes
  • No

in response to 

Quote

2. Your opinion on multi-monitor support

• I would like to see this feature in the game and would use it
   
• I wouldn't use this feature but I wouldn't mind it existing in the game for others to use
   
• I do not want this feature to be in the game

Does this not ask about desirability and use as you now recommend?!

Edited July 26, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[linuxgurugamer]

No, you are reading it wrong.

You should not ask if someone does not want a feature to be in a game.  Only ask question about would they want a feature.  There can be three answers to this question:

1. Do you want for the game to have multi-window support (multiple independent windows on the desktop)

• Yes
• No
• No opinion

The next question could be:

2. Assuming that there was multi-monitor support in the game, would you use it?

• Yes
• Maybe
• No

Notice that these questions do not imply anything, and are not leading the person to answer in a particular way.

My words:

2 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

you should confine the poll to the desirability of the feature only, and if the person would use it

do not contradict what I just listed above.  The questions are asking positive, and are not leading the person to an answer.

[mcwaffles2003]

@linuxgurugamer

Is that better now? 

[mattinoz]

To me it's really simple the devs all have multi-screen set up, they know if would be useful. They know what tech they have baked in to the new system. The discussion to date proves a significant part of the user base would want it and will use multi-player(instance)  set ups to get it anyway. 

If it is going to happen it probably already has, maybe not completely, maybe not shipable but ground work laid. So framing of the pole to ask if it has support is slightly academic. If it's not happening they aren't likely to change tack.

If it doesn't happen I'm sure mods will take care it quickly anyway.

 

 

[linuxgurugamer]

14 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

@linuxgurugamer

Is that better now? 

Yes, much better.  Now it's mostly positive.

I'd like to compliment you on this thread.  I had been planning on posting in the previous one, suggesting that you do exactly what you are doing here.  

Just keep in  mind that this is a very unscientific poll, meaning that people who will answer it will most likely have fairly strong feelings either for or against.  When you post it, I'll make a point to mention it when I stream and ask people to go answer it, hopefully that will help get more answers

Edited July 27, 2020 by linuxgurugamer

[MechBFP]

I personally have never really liked games that use a "window" style. I think the last ones I liked was SimAnt or SimFarm (or both maybe, I can't remember anymore which used window interfaces). Something about it just seems wrong or strange to me. Maybe it feels like I am at work, I don't know, lol. Maybe those types of games just aren't my style, but I find I end up constantly moving/resizing windows because without 2 monitors because you usually just can't see enough.

I wouldn't mind multi-monitor support, were you could pick what you want on the other monitor (i.e. map view or whatever), but in the end I really don't care if either are in the game as I doubt I would use either of them.

[mcwaffles2003]

@MechBFP

I think you are talking about "windowed mode" as opposed to full screen, that is not what is being discussed. Multi-window support is the thing that would allow 

2 hours ago, MechBFP said:

were you could pick what you want on the other monitor (i.e. map view or whatever)

Multi-monitor support would only imply stretching one window across multiple monitors which would not allow customization of multiple windows of configurable data (map window, ship window, data table window). Also SimAnt was awesome, ant lions were terrifying to me as a 5 year old though. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[DeadJohn]

On 7/25/2020 at 8:32 PM, mcwaffles2003 said:

If yes to question 1, would including this feature be worth any delay in the release of KSP 2 to you? If yes, how long?

[Choice] 1. No, if it causes delays don't include it in launch and add it in an update.

Questions 1 and 2 seem ok as written. I have concerns about Question 3 quoted above about delays. It's diving too much into the internal dealings of KSP 2 development and I think it's best not asking in a poll.

if you keep question #3, you need more multiple choice answers. Choice #1 is the only "don't delay release" option. All the other choices are "yes" with varying amounts of delay. #1 needs additional variations:

1. No, if it causes delays don't include it in launch, and add it later in a paid update that I'm willing to pay for.
2. No, if it causes delays don't include it in launch. Add it later if it can be done in a free update.
3. No, if it causes delays just forget about it. I want multi window support but only if it can be put into the initial release without causing any delay.

 

 

 

 

[mcwaffles2003]

Just gunna share my opinion on Q3. I wouldn't mind a month delay to see this, maybe even 2 or 3. It is a feature I think would enhance gameplay drastically and I'm concerned about putting large base game features in later on with updates/patches. The release is far off enough that an extra month wouldn't make a difference to me. Perhaps patching/updating it in wouldn't cause problems but KSP 1 leaves me with some doubts on that, either way hopefully my doubts are unfounded.

[razark]

@mcwaffles2003

Quote

If you did not answer yes to question 1 please do not respond to this question!

If you don't mark an answer to it, you cannot submit a response to the survey.

Note that Q3 has 12 responses at this time, and Q1 has 11 "Yes", and 1 "No".

Edited July 30, 2020 by razark

[AlamoVampire]

How can those of us who do not want such a thing in ksp2 answer when those of us who do not want/need multi monitor/multi window in ksp are told to not answer question 3 as we will mark No on question 1 and as Razark says, we cannot submit our votes if we leave a question blank. In complete honesty this forces a skew in favor of a desired outcome and shows bias, which frankly invalidates the poll.

 

204107292020

Edited July 30, 2020 by AlamoVampire
205507292030

[mcwaffles2003]

5 hours ago, razark said:

@mcwaffles2003

If you don't mark an answer to it, you cannot submit a response to the survey.

Note that Q3 has 12 responses at this time, and Q1 has 11 "Yes", and 1 "No".

 

5 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

How can those of us who do not want such a thing in ksp2 answer when those of us who do not want/need multi monitor/multi window in ksp are told to not answer question 3 as we will mark No on question 1 and as Razark says, we cannot submit our votes if we leave a question blank. In complete honesty this forces a skew in favor of a desired outcome and shows bias, which frankly invalidates the poll.

 

204107292020

 

My mistake, could have sworn on other polls I've submitted answers without giving a response to every question

[MechBFP]

On 7/27/2020 at 2:57 PM, mcwaffles2003 said:

I think you are talking about "windowed mode" as opposed to full screen

Nope, I am not.

[mcwaffles2003]

5 hours ago, MechBFP said:

Nope, I am not.

Then I don't know what you are referring to when you say

On 7/27/2020 at 2:48 PM, MechBFP said:

a "window" style.

 

[MechBFP]

24 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Then I don't know what you are referring to when you say

 

Why do you think the operating system "Windows" is called windows?

[mcwaffles2003]

4 hours ago, MechBFP said:

Why do you think the operating system "Windows" is called windows?

Can you not beat around the bush and just say what you mean without the passive sarcasm? What do you mean by 

On 7/27/2020 at 2:48 PM, MechBFP said:

 a "window" style

Edited July 31, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[MechBFP]

12 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Can you not beat around the bush and just say what you mean without the passive sarcasm? What do you mean by 

I mean quite literally a windows style. Like Windows the operating system. You know WINDOWS like in the title of this thread and what you are talking about. The exact thing I already said 3 times now. 
I honestly don’t think I can be anymore clear about this.