RAJ JAR

Bring back Star Trek: Enterprise

Do you want Star Trek: Enterprise back?  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want Star Trek: Enterprise back?

    • Yes (Please sign the petition)
      5
    • No (If you want, please explain why)
      5
    • Maybe (If you want, please explain why)
      2
    • Other (If you want, please explain why)
      1


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Posted (edited)
On 8/2/2020 at 10:04 AM, Jacke said:

Enterprise only looks "good" when it gets compared to the recent films ("Star Trek" (2009) and its 2 sequels), Discovery, and Picard, which double and triple down on the bad aspects of Enterprise and totally ruin Star Trek.

From what I've seen so far, "crap compared to the previous series" is applied to literally every single Star Trek entry past the original series. When TNG came out, it was crap and TOS was good; when DS9 came out, it was crap but TNG was suddenly the holy grail; when VOY came out, it was crap but DS9 was suddenly good drama; when ENT came out, it was crap but VOY was suddenly good; when Discovery came out, it was polcorrect SJW crap but ENT suddenly became an under-appreciated gem gone too early; around the time when Picard started airing, people suddenly started saying Discovery finally found its own identity.

So to an outsider who's never seen any of it, the nostalgic bellyaching surrounding every single entry post-TOS sounds hollower than an empty fuel tank. And more than a little annoying too. I've been eyeing the franchise for getting into it for a few years now, but by god is the fandom's general attitude so frakking toxic. And people wonder why I watch Gundam instead...

Edited by Fraktal

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3 hours ago, Fraktal said:

From what I've seen so far, "crap compared to the previous series" is applied to literally every single Star Trek entry past the original series.

There's the reaction to something different.  Then there's the reaction to the weakness of a new show that often has to have the writing staff and actors grow into and adjust the show and the characters.  That does happen with almost every new series in a franchise.

But succeeding shows can be very bad too.  Example: Crusade as a sequel series to Babylon 5.  That was obviously a writing staff forgetting those it was a successor show that still needed to make its name.  And it died after 13 episodes.

But Enterprise was much weaker than the previous Star Trek shows.  It was a prequel and they are very challenging to fit into an existing franchise internal history without messing up.  They also had a major time travel arc and time travel again is hard to do well (not so hard if done overall and glibly like older Doctor Who).  Some Enterprise features I learned to appreciate after the fact, like the much different opening credits.  But it was still a substandard Star Trek show in the most part.

And then we've gotten Star Trek Discovery and Picard.  STD, I gave up on that after a single series.  As with any bad show, there are bright spots, like Anson Mount as Captain Pike, who I heard about despite the crappiness of the rest of the show.  In fact, I think I heard that so much because people wanted to point at a good feature.  But STD is a excrementse show.  Reworked and destroyed the Klingons, etc.  Well, STD is now likely effectively cancelled.  Picard was marginally better, but still lacking and disrespectful.  Willing to strip mine and destroy previous Star Trek characters.  I won't expect to see another Picard series either.  Red Letter Media have dissected both of these series if you want more details by people who know Star Trek well.

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10 hours ago, Fraktal said:

From what I've seen so far, "crap compared to the previous series" is applied to literally every single Star Trek entry past the original series. When TNG came out, it was crap and TOS was good; when DS9 came out, it was crap but TNG was suddenly the holy grail; when VOY came out, it was crap but DS9 was suddenly good drama; when ENT came out, it was crap but VOY was suddenly good; when Discovery came out, it was polcorrect SJW crap but ENT suddenly became an under-appreciated gem gone too early; around the time when Picard started airing, people suddenly started saying Discovery finally found its own identity.

So to an outsider who's never seen any of it, the nostalgic bellyaching surrounding every single entry post-TOS sounds hollower than an empty fuel tank. And more than a little annoying too. I've been eyeing the franchise for getting into it for a few years now, but by god is the fandom's general attitude so frakking toxic. And people wonder why I watch Gundam instead...

Yo, Gundam is epic. I would say I like it more than Trek (the Gunpla I've bought should attest to that and I don't think I have any Trek merch). But I think it suffers from similar issues - some people don't like ZZ or Unicorn, for example. And Gundam has its own timeline problems as well, thus why alternate timelines exist... G Gundam, Wing, SEED, IBO, and so on.

Fandoms generally don't like new stuff - it's all too easy to dissatisfy fans. At least diehard fans. Every sequel ever made suffers from this, which is why few are considered to be good - not that they're bad movies but they're bad sequels. There are exceptions like Terminator, though. But those exceptions still had to deal with backlash.

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Posted (edited)

Gundam's problems are twofold. First is the fact that its equivalent of Roddenberry is a misogynistic misanthrope and let it show in his work, only for others to interpret it as artistic and dramatic and attempt to emulate him. You can best see this in Zeta where a feminist good guy switches sides and assists in genocide with "I am a woman, you can't tell me what to do" as her excuse, as well as in Victory where it's pretty much explicitly spelled out to the audience that women should stay home and crap out kids instead of kicking ass on the battlefield right next to the men.

Second is that unlike the nineties-era Star Trek, every single franchise entry was written and directed by different people, resulting in massively different tone and themes all over the place. Hell, Unicorn was written by a far-right war crimes apologist, which is basically the equivalent of hiring a neofascist to write a Star Trek show about Section 31. Now contrast that to SEED's idealized heroes, then back to IBO explicitly having been written as a yakuza revenge story, then right back to 00's message that understanding brings perfect utopian peace forever, then right back to Turn A's and X's message that humanity wasn't ready to make anything out of the potential shown in Narrative and instead had to bomb itself back to the stone age to get a grip on their war boner, then finally to G-Reco's commentary that present-day people are like children playing with weapons of mass destruction who advocate for war only because they never experienced one on their own skin and failed to heed the lessons of history.

And if anyone asks how is this relevant to Star Trek, it's relevant because Gundam recently got its own equivalent of ENT that angered a fair number of people due to contradicting previous lore (despite it explicitly being an alternate timeline) and introducing blatant moral ambiguity on the Federation's part that was only low-key alluded to in TOS (so basically the same deal as with Picard), plus a not-insignificant number of fans are demanding a full modern remake of Gundam's TOS but Bandai doesn't seem to be playing ball, partially due to several of the TOS actors having died since 1979 (the Japanese entertainment industry doesn't like recasting dead actors because they're as inseparably attached to the works as Shatner is to Kirk).

Edited by Fraktal

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914 people have signed the petition. We only need 86 more signatures to reach 1,000. #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers.

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Posted (edited)

just finished my voyager binge and it seemed less bad than i remember. might do s1 of for all mankind before doing an enterprise binge. it will be shorter fortunately. 

Edited by Nuke

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9 hours ago, Nuke said:

just finished my voyager binge and it seemed less bad than i remember. might do s1 of for all mankind before doing an enterprise binge. it will be shorter fortunately. 

Funny thing is people who watched ST: Enterprise the 1st time had a long break from it then rewatched all of it again realise it is actually good and wish they helped out during the Save Star Trek: Enterprise campaign.

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Star Trek has always been of variable quality, some very good, some bad.

But things started going bad overall when Star Trek: Enterprise was broadcast in 2001.

People focused on trivial differences like the opening credits music when the real rot was deeper and widespread.

I and others have gone over above where Enterprise started going wrong.  It was a prequel that fiddled too much.  Warped the Vulcans.  Way too much stupid time travel plot lines.

And then the break was spread with the film "Star Trek: Nemesis" in 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Nemesis

As a friend of mine said, it was 90% a good Star Trek film.  But that bad 10% was damning.

Blow up Romulus.  Silly Picard clone.  Kill off Data with a lame out to perhaps bring him back.

And then the damn "Star Trek" (2009) doubled down on this.  Stupid red matter to make instant black holes.  Destroy Vulcan (damn Vulcans can't catch a break) in a way that can't happen.  And more stupid time travel stuff.

And every time we hope there's going to be an improvement, new Star Trek just doubles-down on the wrong.

This is a franchise that has had 2 decades of trashing.  It's going to take something amazing to recover.  It's still possible, as the Orville has shown.  Maybe some day....

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On 8/14/2020 at 9:36 PM, Jacke said:

Star Trek has always been of variable quality, some very good, some bad.

But things started going bad overall when Star Trek: Enterprise was broadcast in 2001.

People focused on trivial differences like the opening credits music when the real rot was deeper and widespread.

I and others have gone over above where Enterprise started going wrong.  It was a prequel that fiddled too much.  Warped the Vulcans.  Way too much stupid time travel plot lines.

And then the break was spread with the film "Star Trek: Nemesis" in 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Nemesis

As a friend of mine said, it was 90% a good Star Trek film.  But that bad 10% was damning.

Blow up Romulus.  Silly Picard clone.  Kill off Data with a lame out to perhaps bring him back.

And then the damn "Star Trek" (2009) doubled down on this.  Stupid red matter to make instant black holes.  Destroy Vulcan (damn Vulcans can't catch a break) in a way that can't happen.  And more stupid time travel stuff.

And every time we hope there's going to be an improvement, new Star Trek just doubles-down on the wrong.

This is a franchise that has had 2 decades of trashing.  It's going to take something amazing to recover.  It's still possible, as the Orville has shown.  Maybe some day....

In my opinion, they should have had a break for at least a year or 2 before starting Star Trek: Enterprise.

As for Star Trek: Nemesis, they should have also had a break for at least a year or 2 before starting and let Jonathan Frakes or someone else who knows the official Star Trek direct.

 

 

921 supporters have signed the petition. We are very close to 1,000 signatures. #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, RAJ JAR said:

In my opinion, they should have had a break for at least a year or 2 before starting Star Trek: Enterprise.

As for Star Trek: Nemesis, they should have also had a break for at least a year or 2 before starting and let Jonathan Frakes or someone else who knows the official Star Trek direct.

It comes down to having a production team with enough ideas + support + money to convince the owners of a franchise and a broadcast network to go for it.

Sometimes they let a weak set of ideas go through.  Prequels are especially difficult, worse when they're closely coupled to the previous series.

Star Trek: Nemesis was part of the momentum of keeping TNG cast in films.  The stories were all weak and flawed.  Nemesis just was the worst one.

It's been too long for Star Trek: Enterprise.  Production staff and cast have moved on.  Shows very rarely get restored this long after.  "Twin Peaks" was an exception and it was a mixed bag of good and not so good and it started from a much better place.

 

Edited by Jacke

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Posted (edited)

so a season and a half into my enterprise binge and i am calling it, enterprise > voyager. while voyager was a lot better than i remember, enterprise had better scripts, effects, characters, etc. it might even have the best first season of any star trek spin off. 

so two episodes into season 3 and im really starting to wonder if the whole xindi conflict ruined the show.

Edited by Nuke

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On 8/18/2020 at 9:16 PM, Nuke said:

so a season and a half into my enterprise binge and i am calling it, enterprise > voyager. while voyager was a lot better than i remember, enterprise had better scripts, effects, characters, etc. it might even have the best first season of any star trek spin off. 

so two episodes into season 3 and im really starting to wonder if the whole xindi conflict ruined the show.

I agree that season 1 is one if the best compared to other Star Trek series. Season 3 and 4 helped the series.

 

930 people have signed the petition. We only need 70 more signatures to reach 1,000. #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, RAJ JAR said:

I agree that season 1 is one if the best compared to other Star Trek series. Season 3 and 4 helped the series.

 

930 people have signed the petition. We only need 70 more signatures to reach 1,000. #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers

 

Never could like it. Characters were meh. Too many were token at best (the british enigineer and black pilot). And Tpol could be taken more seriously without the catsuit, just like Jeri Ryan... even though Jeri's acting was so good it made you not see her as merely an object.

Jolene Blalock? Probably did as best she could with a boring Vulcan script.

Unlike DS9 which developed EVERYBODY.

It was basically ST with a bit more S and V.

Unlike Disco and Picard which ramp that up to R rated levels.

Edited by Spacescifi

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1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

 

Never could like it. Characters were meh. Too many were token at best (the british enigineer and black pilot). And Tpol could be taken more seriously without the catsuit, just like Jeri Ryan... even though Jeri's acting was so good it made you not see her as merely an object.

Jolene Blalock? Probably did as best she could with a boring Vulcan script.

Unlike DS9 which developed EVERYBODY.

It was basically ST with a bit more S and V.

Unlike Disco and Picard which ramp that up to R rated levels.

British Engineer? Pretty sure he was from the American South, at least in-universe.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

British Engineer? Pretty sure he was from the American South, at least in-universe.

Meant to say the weapons guy.

Instead of the trinity that made the original work (hammy Kirk,  logical but serious spock, and no nonsense tell you like it is Mcoy), we got initially rookie Captain Archer who knows not what he is doing, a southern american engineer who is just... plain. And a Vulcan who is so obviously a fanservice object that making her Vulcan only makes it worse. Vulcan traditional wear is robes anyway! She should of just worn a starfleet uniform like everyone else.

Edited by Spacescifi

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3 hours ago, RAJ JAR said:

I agree that season 1 is one if the best compared to other Star Trek series. Season 3 and 4 helped the series.

 

930 people have signed the petition. We only need 70 more signatures to reach 1,000. #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers

i liked the loose serial format from the first couple season, events in one episode has consequences in the next, but still more or less being self contained stories. gone was a huge problem with voyager where despite the ship getting trashed in almost every episode still managed to look pristine in the next. 

a lot of people say that season 3 and 4 helped the series but i think that's where they went wrong. going with a season long serial for the xindi plot kind of got tedious towards the end. the whole thing seemed implausible. then season 4 was a lot of 2 and 3 part episodes (and most of them had me falling asleep).

i don't think a thousand signatures will bring the show back. and if they did it would just attract the current iteration of star trek writers and would just be bad. if strange new worlds cant fix trek i don't know what can. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Nuke said:

...events in one episode has consequences in the next, but still more or less being self contained stories. gone was a huge problem with voyager where despite the ship getting trashed in almost every episode still managed to look pristine in the next.

I've been watching Voyager recently (I only caught a few episodes while it was on the air), and aside from bringing up aliens they met in previous episodes, each episode seems pretty "bottled".  Enterprise (Seasons 1 and 2) had a flow to episodes that put them into a framework, but Voyager seems like you could just shuffle the order the episodes occurred in, and you wouldn't lose anything.  (As a big fan of TOS, I am going to completely ignore the fact that it was largely the same.  Voyager had a big, long, semi-plot of getting back home, and Enterprise had humanity's first voyages into a large galaxy.  Enterprise seemed to hold to the premise better, IMO.)  I think Enterprise benefited from its premise of "we're making up the rules as we go along and encounter things we never thought of" to show the beginnings of the Prime Directive and other concepts.  Voyager seems to throw them out the window and have the characters either hold the Federation rules as sacrosanct or considered an irrelevant obstacle to be discarded as the plot demands.

 

4 hours ago, Nuke said:

a lot of people say that season 3 and 4 helped the series but i think that's where they went wrong. going with a season long serial for the xindi plot kind of got tedious towards the end. the whole thing seemed implausible. then season 4 was a lot of 2 and 3 part episodes (and most of them had me falling asleep).

I largely agree with this.  I think season 4 was building to something beyond, but the series got canceled before it could have a payoff.  All the time-travel crap could have been done away with, though.  And that series finale was a disgrace.

 

DS9?  I tried to watch it.  It bored the hell out of me for several reasons.  I am also opposed to a Star Trek series set on a space station.  The idea was to boldly go, explore new worlds, and meet new people.  Not to boldly sit here at the same location and wait for the same repetitive people to show up to the same already explored place.  It's Star Trek, not Star Sit Here.

Edited by razark

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, razark said:

DS9?  I tried to watch it.  It bored the hell out of me for several reasons.  I am also opposed to a Star Trek series set on a space station.  The idea was to boldly go, explore new worlds, and meet new people.  Not to boldly sit here at the same location and wait for the same repetitive people to show up to the same already explored place.  It's Star Trek, not Star Sit Here.

idk, deep space nine was actually one of the better ones once they get past all the regurgitated tng scripts. they seemed to know where they were going by season 2 and stayed the course for the rest of the show. and while they were at a fixed location they did do quite a bit of exploration of the gamma quadrant via the worm hole.

its also a deconstruction of star trek. the federation is shown not as a utopian society but as bungling bureaucracy. starfleet is shown not as an exploration fleet, looks past the propaganda, and shows it as what it really is, a military. even the commander/captain is a down to earth realist rather than the over idealized figurehead of high moral character that picard or even kirk was. janeway, archer, and pike (discovery) were just cookie cutter captains in comparison. kirk only stands apart by being a bit of a cowboy. 

also hands down it had some of the best space battles star trek had ever seen.

Edited by Nuke

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942 people have signed the petition. We only need 58 more signatures to reach 1,000. Tomorrow is Star Trek Day. Lets show them we want Star Trek: Enterprise back. #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers

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962 supporters have signed the petition. We only need 38 more signatures to reach 1,000. Lets do this Star Trek fans. Lets show them we want Star Trek: Enterprise back. There is another petition available with more details on why the petition is there, https://www.change.org/p/bring-back-star-trek-enterprise-7a2836de-73e4-4b6c-a3b0-f3669ce5a68c . #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers

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16 hours ago, RAJ JAR said:
962 supporters have signed the petition. We only need 38 more signatures to reach 1,000. Lets do this Star Trek fans. Lets show them we want Star Trek: Enterprise back. There is another petition available with more details on why the petition is there, https://www.change.org/p/bring-back-star-trek-enterprise-7a2836de-73e4-4b6c-a3b0-f3669ce5a68c . #BringBackStarTrekEnterprise #StarTrekEnterprise #StrengthInNumbers

 

How?

The status quo is Kurtzman and CO.

Talk to them. Otherwise this is futile.

1,000 fans won't move most

 

$$$ will. Can bringing it back do that?

Did it when it aired?

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