Jump to content

[1.9-1.12.x] EVE-Redux: Performance-enhanced EVE + maintenance (v1.11.7.1 - 09/09/2022)


blackrack
 Share

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, blackrack said:

Both the map and the curve apply a remap operation to the 3d noise: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3451553/value-remapping

They cause the 3d noise to appear to expand and shrink in a natural way when the value varies, unlike applying a multiply to the noise which causes the overall shape to stay the same but vary in translucency/density.

It is kind of like a threshold where values under this threshold are carved away.

I don't know how much sense this explanation makes but it makes sense when you see it in action.

I'm not sure what you mean about columnar seeds but this does in a way define the width and "connectedness" of nodules. With lower values you get more isolated and disconnected nodules, this usually on looks good on edges. With middle values you get kind of a swiss cheese with holes. With full values you get a fully solid volume.

Ah I actually think I do get what you mean, I'd probably have to read the code to see the actual specifics but I've some experience with modulating noise wrt terrain generation and I think I know what you're referring to here. You mention a remap, I presume you keep some intermediate alpha for soft edges. So something like when I do this in gimp I would presume (but probably with a different noise source and with more than just five seconds of effort)?

Spoiler

DJi794h.png



And what I meant was I was thinking maybe the clouds were something akin to a voronoi with seed points that were columns the height of the deck, and the curve determined the spread from them, but you've got something better it would appear. It sounds like the curve then does multiply the values in the map, before being passed to the remap?

Also, new question, how will colors be handled? Will they be in the same map as the density (with density in alpha presumably), or what?

Edited by WarriorSabe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, WarriorSabe said:

Ah I actually think I do get what you mean, I'd probably have to read the code to see the actual specifics but I've some experience with modulating noise wrt terrain generation and I think I know what you're referring to here. You mention a remap, I presume you keep some intermediate alpha for soft edges. So something like when I do this in gimp I would presume (but probably with a different noise source and with more than just five seconds of effort)?

  Hide contents

DJi794h.png



And what I meant was I was thinking maybe the clouds were something akin to a voronoi with seed points that were columns the height of the deck, and the curve determined the spread from them, but you've got something better it would appear. It sounds like the curve then does multiply the values in the map, before being passed to the remap?

Also, new question, how will colors be handled? Will they be in the same map as the density (with density in alpha presumably), or what?

Indeed, you have to keep intermediate soft edges. The curve editing there is a bit different, the curve looks to be exaggerating the contrast, the remap I do is more like taking a subset like half the range and spreading it to cover the whole range, while discarding the other half, if that makes sense.

You were very close about voronoi, it's actually inverted worley noise, perlin-worley is usable as well but I didn't get good results with it. The 3d texture is actually very small resolution and has to be tiled to keep performance reasonable, the maps and curves combination modulate it.

If you're interested in knowing more, the base of the technique I use (and pretty much anyone who's implemented clouds in the last few years) is described in this presentation: https://www.guerrilla-games.com/media/News/Files/The-Real-time-Volumetric-Cloudscapes-of-Horizon-Zero-Dawn.pdf

Not everything works like they describe it but the basic ideas are there.

As for cloud color, I have a single configurable value per-cloud layer. I can't think of a usecase where you need to pick the cloud color from a map, varying the cloud color looks really weird when you have somewhat physically correct lighting.

Edited by blackrack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, blackrack said:

Indeed, you have to keep intermediate soft edges. The curve editing there is a bit different, the curve looks to be exaggerating the contrast, the remap I do is more like taking a subset like half the range and spreading it to cover the whole range, while discarding the other half, if that makes sense.

Ah, so more like this then?

Spoiler

LBQkP9J.png

 

37 minutes ago, blackrack said:

As for cloud color, I have a single configurable value per-cloud layer. I can't think of a usecase where you need to pick the cloud color from a map, varying the cloud color looks really weird when you have somewhat physically correct lighting.

What about gas giants and such?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, WarriorSabe said:

Ah, so more like this then?

  Reveal hidden contents

LBQkP9J.png

 

What about gas giants and such?

Yep like that.

Good point about gas giants, will see about adding this in, not a big deal either way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/28/2022 at 11:45 PM, blackrack said:

So basically there will be a map defining how much cloud there is and where, giving it it's horizontal shape, kind of like the actual 2d maps, and another map to place cloud types, sort of like biome maps, and perhaps another optional map to modulate heights.

The "biomes" or cloud types properties will be defined separately by the user, they will contain different properties for max height, noise tiling and strength etc, but one of the most important properties is a float curve that will define the cloud's shape over height, giving it its vertical shape. This allows me for example to shape the cumulonimbus "anvil" I've shown in previous images.

This will be complex to configure but will allow a lot of variety and flexibility.

So good ! It's about I expected.

And I suppose there will be a fading to the 2d map when we will going to orbit ? If it's the case, will there a normal map support ? Or I'm totally wrong and we will can see your 3d clouds from orbit (without any loss performance :P) ?

Edited by Vandest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Doc Shaftoe said:

I think I said something like this when you first debuted those new clouds, but hot damn! Blackrack your work never ceases to amaze!

Thank you!

6 hours ago, Vandest said:

So good ! It's about I expected.

And I suppose there will be a fading to the 2d map when we will going to orbit ? If it's the case, will there a normal map support ? Or I'm totally wrong and we will can see your 3d clouds from orbit (without any loss performance :P) ?

Yeah there will be fades and the volumetrics will probably kept until a certain altitude, I haven't worked on it yet.

Normal maps are already supported but scatterer integration breaks them because it runs out of texture samplers, there is a workaround but I couldn't get it to work for now.

Edited by blackrack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, blackrack said:

Yeah there will be fades and the volumetrics will probably kept until a certain altitude, I haven't worked on it yet.

Ooh! I wonder if we could get this to work with geysers. @HafCoJoe already got some working with AVP. Imagine, seeing plumes from space, like Enceladus!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also curious, will you be making a wiki like for Scatterer? I've had a pretty hard time trying to figure out how to make configs through reverse-engineering, and a major rework like this seems like a good opportunity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, blackrack said:

Yeah there will be fades and the volumetrics will probably kept until a certain altitude, I haven't worked on it yet.

Normal maps are already supported but scatterer integration breaks them because it runs out of texture samplers, there is a workaround but I couldn't get it to work for now.

I hope one day you will found how to make this workaround get it to work with scatterer, it would be such powerful !

But for now, I just can't wait to try this volumetric clouds. :happy:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, WarriorSabe said:

Also curious, will you be making a wiki like for Scatterer? I've had a pretty hard time trying to figure out how to make configs through reverse-engineering, and a major rework like this seems like a good opportunity

I plan to have a wiki/tutorial but for the new volumetric clouds only. I'm not an expert on configuring regular EVE and I haven't dug into it apart from the performance/rendering details.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jacktical said:

This is gonna make the game 1000x better, would these clouds be applicable in making 3D gas giants surfaces?

See the source image

Would be too good an opportunity to pass up :D

1 hour ago, dok_377 said:

Is there going to be shadows from the clouds on the ground like it is right now with 2D layers? 

Rendering shadows that would match them is expensive, for now I will keep using the same shadow we have now from the 2D layer, sometimes you'll be able to notice they don't match perfectly but it's not a big deal. Maybe I will blur and diffuse them a bit for good measure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, blackrack said:

Rendering shadows that would match them is expensive, for now I will keep using the same shadow we have now from the 2D layer, sometimes you'll be able to notice they don't match perfectly but it's not a big deal. Maybe I will blur and diffuse them a bit for good measure.

I don't think it really matters that much, any shadow map will do, especially if it doesn't destroy the performance. It's just a bit weird without shadows. Amazing job by the way, good to see that you are actually making proper 3D clouds work. Some time ago I couldn't even believe it was possible in the game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, blackrack said:

Would be too good an opportunity to pass up :D

This will be so cool for atmospheric probes :D Will it work with planet packs like ksrss?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, blackrack said:

I plan to have a wiki/tutorial but for the new volumetric clouds only. I'm not an expert on configuring regular EVE and I haven't dug into it apart from the performance/rendering details.

That's fair, maybe I'll just dig through the code to find the api myself, since I frankly have no clue what half the things I use actually do

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, blackrack said:

Enjoying the view
chqORDc.png

llMXL8e.png

How is this even possible? Also please make weather system, it would make sense for a planet with water.

also I forgot to mention that is there rss support?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, WarriorSabe said:

That's fair, maybe I'll just dig through the code to find the api myself, since I frankly have no clue what half the things I use actually do

Are 't there tooltips for what each setting does or do those not appear in-game? In any case if you look in the code you will find tooltips defined for most settings which explain what they do.

 

4 hours ago, MrPoker said:

How is this even possible? Also please make weather system, it would make sense for a planet with water.

also I forgot to mention that is there rss support?

 

15 hours ago, Jacktical said:

This will be so cool for atmospheric probes :D Will it work with planet packs like ksrss?

Yeah other mods/planet packs will work, they have to be configured for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...