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When more gameplay is shown


mcwaffles2003
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We haven't seen much gameplay so far. We've seen very short cuts of scenes but no long duration straight play showing the fan base what experiencing the game may feel like. I'm hoping sometime soon we will get to see one of the devs build a small ship and take it to orbit as a demonstration of the very basic processes we will all experience frequently.

The VAB has been shown, ships blasting off/flying have been shown, a wide variety of parts have been shown... None of this is still secret anymore so devs wouldn't be showing us anything new that they want to keep secret.

Anything you guys are hoping the devs show off if/when a narrated gameplay demo is given?

Edited by mcwaffles2003
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Assuming one has played KSP1, i dont think getting into orbit in KSP2 would be very different. Though it would be fun if they added another law of physics to spice up the experience. 

My guess is that the gameplay content most of us are really exited for, interstellar travel and colonies etc., will not be worked on until the later stages of development, when the basics are set in place. 

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46 minutes ago, Cattette said:

Assuming one has played KSP1, i dont think getting into orbit in KSP2 would be very different. Though it would be fun if they added another law of physics to spice up the experience. 

I'm not looking to be surprised, but I would like to get a preview of the game simply being played. 

47 minutes ago, Cattette said:

My guess is that the gameplay content most of us are really exited for, interstellar travel and colonies etc., will not be worked on until the later stages of development, when the basics are set in place. 

We've seen colonies already built and many future tech engines displayed. They've been developing the late game parts/mechanics for a long time already.

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I think it's too early for any real game play footage to be seen right now. I would expect to start seeing it once they get towards the end of the beta.

I'm sure that they have something playable, but knowing this community, they want to be very careful about what they release to the public right now. They don't want the haunting of features they weren't able to implement.

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1 hour ago, shdwlrd said:

I'm sure that they have something playable, but knowing this community, they want to be very careful about what they release to the public right now. They don't want the haunting of features they weren't able to implement.

 

5 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

The VAB has been shown, ships blasting off/flying have been shown, a wide variety of parts have been shown... None of this is still secret anymore so devs wouldn't be showing us anything new that they want to keep secret.

 

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5 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

None of this is still secret anymore so devs wouldn't be showing us anything new that they want to keep secret.

They haven't shown the map screen, the Mun, Kerbin, the finalized flight UI, the map screen UI. When they did show a launch, they got lambasted about the noodle rocket and all the associated physics and part properties. All they were showing at the time was they have working base for the game, and some new explosion fx. 

That's why I'm saying it's too early to see game play footage right now.

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2 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

They haven't shown the map screen, the Mun, Kerbin, the finalized flight UI, the map screen UI. When they did show a launch, they got lambasted about the noodle rocket and all the associated physics and part properties. All they were showing at the time was they have working base for the game, and some new explosion fx. 

We dont need to see the mun, we have seen kerbin plenty, we have seen the UI as it was in the PC Gamer article, dont need to show the map screen, and its been over a year since the noodle rocket (hopefully they've done some work on it since then)...

2 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

That's why I'm saying it's too early to see game play footage right now.

It's been a year and we are about a year out from full release. CP 2077 has been showing gameplay well over a year away from full release and Baldurs Gate 3 has been showing gameplay from over a year out from its EA release. Both have strong communities with high regard in gaming and Larian Studios is on the smaller end of game studios.

Looking for new gameplay by now is well within reason.

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1 hour ago, DunaManiac said:

My guess is that they haven't finalized it yet and aren't willing to show until they are finished with that aspect of the game.

That seems very reasonable.

 

1 hour ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

We dont need to see the mun, we have seen kerbin plenty, we have seen the UI as it was in the PC Gamer article, dont need to show the map screen, and its been over a year since the noodle rocket (hopefully they've done some work on it since then)...

It's been a year and we are about a year out from full release. CP 2077 has been showing gameplay well over a year away from full release and Baldurs Gate 3 has been showing gameplay from over a year out from its EA release. Both have strong communities with high regard in gaming and Larian Studios is on the smaller end of game studios.

Looking for new gameplay by now is well within reason.

But KSP isn't a simple FPS/RPG or top down action game. There are many different parts that make KSP what it is. You have the building aspect, you have the flight sim, you have playable characters, you have high precision of location in an extremely large play area, you have realistic physics. There are many different parts of KSP that have to work well together to make good gameplay footage. If any single one is lacking, why make it? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it, but I feel that it's too soon to show something that doesn't represent what the finished product would look like.

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13 hours ago, DunaManiac said:

My guess is that they haven't finalized it yet and aren't willing to show until they are finished with that aspect of the game.

But... they have shown us this stuff, just not in one long take..

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

But KSP isn't a simple FPS/RPG or top down action game.

Ok, first off, calling CP 2077 a "simple FPS/RPG" is wayyy beyond the pale.

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

There are many different parts that make KSP what it is. You have the building aspec

If by building aspect you are referring to colonies, then don't show that. If instead you mean building a ship in the VAB, we've recently seen short clips and it's apparently quite functional. 

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

you have the flight sim

So aerodynamics for a rocket isn't working yet? Because that didn't stop them in the pre-alpha demo

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

have playable characters

The kerbals have already been shown, in cockpits of flying vessels. But if they are a problem, maybe send a probe?

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

you have high precision of location in an extremely large play area

Stay close to Kerbin then? Once again, I doubt this is an issue since we saw gameplay a year ago.

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

you have realistic physics

Hopefully in the last 12 months they've made rockets less noodly, an I would like to see that

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

There are many different parts of KSP that have to work well together to make good gameplay footage

And listing a bunch of them at random with no further explaination doesn't establish a coherent point. 

12 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

If any single one is lacking, why make it? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it, but I feel that it's too soon to show something that doesn't represent what the finished product would look like.

To see the progress? They've already been confident enough to show us gameplay... a year ago, so now, a year later, the gameplay is too incomplete to demonstrate? O_o

By this logic why ever make a gameplay demo until the game is released. Can you flesh out your reasoning a bit more than just listing features/functions because I really don't see what you are trying to say apparently

Edited by mcwaffles2003
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18 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

We've seen colonies already built and many future tech engines displayed.

 

4 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

they have shown us this stuff, just not in one long take

I am almost positive that everything they showed was either a mockup or - if it was actually in a real version of the game it was footage of a test of something specific that happened to also look good. I'd be surprised if any of it was actual gameplay (rendered in the engine doesn't count) and would be doubly shocked if it was part of some actual play session.

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5 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

I am almost positive that everything they showed was either a mockup or - if it was actually in a real version of the game it was footage of a test of something specific that happened to also look good. I'd be surprised if any of it was actual gameplay (rendered in the engine doesn't count) and would be doubly shocked if it was part of some actual play session.

Spoiler

 

This is obviously not pre-rendered, it even says "pre-alpha gameplay". If it was simply to "look good" don't you think they would have at least turned on anti-aliasing? Are you really suggesting they don't even have the game at a playable level when a year ago Nate himself said that he had never laughed so hard when he played multiplayer.

The game is obviously functional and capable of demonstrating it's basic mechanics. We have seen ships take off from KSC, a colony on the mun (with an orion engine), and others traveling in orbit. The game was originally set to release 6 months from its announcement a year ago and has been in the works for over 3 years. I'm sure they have plenty they need to work on and mostly probably touch up the already established framework they have.. but to simply suggest the game is currently unplayable seems extremely flippant.

 

Either way, the objective of the thread wasn't "are we going to see a gameplay demo this week?", but instead:

On 8/25/2020 at 7:13 AM, mcwaffles2003 said:

Anything you guys are hoping the devs show off if/when a narrated gameplay demo is given?

 

 

So instead of a mindless argument that will continue to go nowhere anyway.... what do you wish they would do if there were a 20 minute long demo of plain gameplay? Please, describe what you would hope them to do in such a window.

Edited by mcwaffles2003
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I think what they show is dependant on the release date. Last I heard was Fall 2021. More than a year away, so I think gameplay is unlikely at Gamescom.

That said, I would like the first proper 'footage' we see to include the VAB. Have the commentary demonstrate creating a rocket, then having it launch/crash/repeat. A more fitting into to the game for newcomers, there could never be.

I know we all want to get to 'interstellar' and 'base building', but the original came has two 'creators'. This game will have at least three, and I want to know more about them.

I also hope the 'tutorials' get released early, since they're 2D animations. Release them on YouTube and have everyone learn the theory before we get to the practical.

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13 hours ago, stephensmat said:

I also hope the 'tutorials' get released early, since they're 2D animations. Release them on YouTube and have everyone learn the theory before we get to the practical.

Eh...I doubt they'll do that. They designed the tutorials to pop up when you need them, so that you aren't overwhelmed by information. Dumping the tutorials on the Tube would be the opposite of "not overwhelming" .

I agree with you on the VAB, tho. I want to see more of the resource system teased...

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14 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

How so? You can watch them at your own pace and re-watch what you don't understand.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that since they're made to pop up exactly when they are needed (i.e. a maneuver nodes tutorial when you create your first maneuver node), the devs' objectives are to give you just enough information to take the next little step, and work your way up to "giant leaps" that way. They're probably doing this to avoid info dumps, which can be overwhelming. Also, the info being dumped can be forgotten easily, while information gained gradually can be retained.

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2 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that since they're made to pop up exactly when they are needed (i.e. a maneuver nodes tutorial when you create your first maneuver node), the devs' objectives are to give you just enough information to take the next little step, and work your way up to "giant leaps" that way. They're probably doing this to avoid info dumps, which can be overwhelming. Also, the info being dumped can be forgotten easily, while information gained gradually can be retained.

Well whats the point of having someone experience the docking tutorial at liftoff? By the time you're docking you will have long forgotten what you learned. Also, there is an obvious difference between a game playing 30 tutorials at you and having the ability to go online and watch whatever tutorial you like.

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You miss the point. You get docking tutorial when you're attempting to dock. Or at least, that's the idea.

IMO, this is not a good idea, and I hope it's not a cheap way to avoid doing actual tutorial missions. KSP1 already works that way with building tutorials.

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On 8/28/2020 at 12:13 AM, mcwaffles2003 said:

Well whats the point of having someone experience the docking tutorial at liftoff? By the time you're docking you will have long forgotten what you learned. Also, there is an obvious difference between a game playing 30 tutorials at you and having the ability to go online and watch whatever tutorial you like.

My guess is that it will be a mixture of 'pop up' messages asking if you want to see the tutorial at the relevant time, and a KSPedia type 'library' where you can access them all at anytime.

I also expect there will be tutorial missions and scenarios too. 

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3 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

and I hope it's not a cheap way to avoid doing actual tutorial missions.

I would argue that the process of designing and producing 47 minutes of animation is way longer than what it takes to make a bunch of missions in the mission editor.

The point is that nobody plays tutorial missions and most players are used to go on YouTube/wiki when they fail to see why they failed, having contextual video tutorials is a good choice.

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1 hour ago, Master39 said:

The point is that nobody plays tutorial missions and most players are used to go on YouTube/wiki when they fail to see why they failed, having contextual video tutorials is a good choice.

I suspect that's because they're not that easy to find, and not a part of the main sandbox. They were a late addition and, like most late additions to KSP, they have problems. Not to mention, they're not all that great. Ideally, this would be an extended, hands-on tutorial that would seamlessly cross from one missions to the next, and let you out into a career game. Most other games have such tutorials. Of course, most other games also have a "career" of some description that doesn't suck.

Doing a tutorial in Mission Builder is fast, but doing a good tutorial is definitely harder and more difficult than making a simple animation.

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14 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Doing a tutorial in Mission Builder is fast, but doing a good tutorial is definitely harder and more difficult than making a simple animation.

Nope, even if designing a good tutorial for the mission editor would require the same time as designing the animation then you still have to decide the style of the animation, hire someone to actually to draw it (as they did), draft it, draw the final version, record and add the sounds, and then implement it into the game, 47 minutes of animation takes a lot more time and effort than just firing up the mission/scenario editor and use already made in-game assets to make a mission.

There's no way than 47 minutes of animations spread over 32 tutorials can be easier or cheaper to implement than a tutorial mission, and that's only the animated part, nobody said nothing about the script of such animation, and if a text-based wiki or some tutorial missions will actually be there.

The reason why they choose animations here is simpler, the tutorial mission is the most skipped part of every game ever, nobody wants to sit 50 minutes reading instructions before starting to play.

"Nobody ever reads the instructions or plays the tutorial" is a good starting point to design any game or program. 

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This is why the proper way of doing them is to integrate tutorials into the start of the career mode. Skippable, maybe, but it should be the first thing the new career player will see. There's simply no substitute to doing things hands-on. Oh, and the animations will be skipped, too, especially if they pop up at inconvenient times.

Also, it's not a single "tutorial mission". Yes, you could do it that way, but that's bad design. Making a series of missions (one for each subject), each with their own scripting, text and everything (ideally also voiceovers, though they'll probably just go with funny Kerbal noises for those), is a harder task than drawing and animating a cartoon.

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