Jump to content

Post launch VR support?


VR?  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. VR?

    • Yes and I already have a VR setup
      7
    • Please and I will even buy a VR setup
      4
    • Nah, not my kinda thing
      10
    • No thank you, I'm scared I would never have a life again
      0
    • It would be cool, and I may think about getting VR hardware at some point
      14


Recommended Posts

KSP is the only non-VR game I still play on PC.  For the record, I'm now playing with the Oculus Quest 2, upgraded from first generation 2016 VR.  So the 3-4x increase in resolution is quite an improvement.  The Quest 2 costs $300, and you can use it either as a stand alone system, which I've barely done since my 2014 CPU / 2016 GPU (970) can still handle VR better than the mobile chip in the Quest 2.  I got a generic USB cable for $25 to connect, and it works fine, but I ended up spending $20 on Virtual Desktop to connect wirelessly instead.  You need to have a good WiFi router (WiFI 6 is recommended).  There's a little bit more lag, which may be a problem if you're a Beat Saber Expert+ fiend, but I find it quite OK in the PC VR games I've played so far*.

I prefer "supervising" my KSP gameplay more than actually flying by the seat of my pants, so I'm not super interested in IVA.  Maybe if they really spiff up the stock cockpits, I'll give it a go.  For now, if I want to fly in space, I fire up "Elite: Dangerous" or lately, "Star Wars: Squadrons" - so immersive and breathtaking in VR.

Like several people have mentioned, I'm most interested in VAB / SPH in VR.  I find it very frustrating assembling a 3D craft with 2D tools.  Maybe I should invest in a 3D mouse.  I did try that janky KSP VR mod and was impressed seeing my rocket at full scale in the VAB, but you couldn't actually manipulate the thing.

* Thrill of the Fight (boxing), Elite: Dangerous, Star Wars: Squadrons, Skyrim VR, Lone Echo all work fine, but Half-Life Alyx has a weird voice sync bug for me when playing wirelessly.

Edited by Soda Popinski
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

@Master39 i didn't know that HP and Dell were selling VR headsets and Kits. Still a bit expensive, but much more palatable compared to some other options.

Not only that, the new Reverb G2 it's the weirdest beast on the market.

It costs less than the Index mainly because of the cheaper tracking system (nothing beats Valve's own Lighthouse system and its sub-millimiter precision, but those base stations costs 150 each and the Knuckle controllers go for 300 a pair), but its a HP-Microsoft-Valve collaboration and it has the same audio, lenses and facial interface of the Index while having higher resolution screens.

I totally expect a new wave of WMR VR headsets in 2021, maybe something new from Samsung (the Odissey+ was fantastic for the price) or Lenovo (which is no longer producing those "Oculus" rift S HMDs).

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Master39 said:

Not only that, the new Reverb G2 it's the weirdest beast on the market.

It costs less than the Index mainly because of the cheaper tracking system (nothing beats Valve's own Lighthouse system and its sub-millimiter precision, but those base stations costs 150 each and the Knuckle controllers go for 300 a pair), but its a HP-Microsoft-Valve collaboration and it has the same audio, lenses and facial interface of the Index while having higher resolution screens.

I totally expect a new wave of WMR VR headsets in 2021, maybe something new from Samsung (the Odissey+ was fantastic for the price) or Lenovo (which is no longer producing those "Oculus" rift S HMDs).

The reverb g2 does look promising. The one I think would pair well with KSP is the Microsoft holo-lens. You can turn it on and off when needed. Turn it on when in the VAB/SPH, or when you need a true depth of the environment. Turn it off when you are drifting in space or making maneuvers. At $3500, it would be awfully expensive just for gaming though. 

Personally, I wouldn't buy anything until I can try it out. I'm very sensitive to IPD deviantations. So I need to check if they can be adjusted to not strain my eyes and feel sick.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

The reverb g2 does look promising. The one I think would pair well with KSP is the Microsoft holo-lens. You can turn it on and off when needed. Turn it on when in the VAB/SPH, or when you need a true depth of the environment. Turn it off when you are drifting in space or making maneuvers. At $3500, it would be awfully expensive just for gaming though. 

Personally, I wouldn't buy anything until I can try it out. I'm very sensitive to IPD deviantations. So I need to check if they can be adjusted to not strain my eyes and feel sick.

The vantage in the VAB would be mostly in the motion controllers, I can see the advantage of a semi-transparent headset, but honestly removing the Headset it's not the worst part about switching to the "pankake" portion of the game that would be putting down the motion controllers and rotate your seat back toward your screen.

BUT

Elite Dangerous Odissey.

Back in June Frontier announced their new expansion to Elite Dangerous: Odissey, a paid DLC that will bring on foot action to the game. When asked they replied that, sadly, the expansion will not work in VR (understandable, VR Shooters are a completely new genre and it's still way to early to mix them with traditional FPSs). That sparked a lot of complaints by the VR community but, above all else, confusion. How would the thing work?

We thought the options were 2:

  • The DLC is completely incompatible with VR, you either play the "legacy" ED in VR or the new expansion in pancake.
  • The  DLC is compatible with VR but to leave your seat and engage in the FPS content you would have to restart the game in 2D.

A couple of weeks ago Frontier replied to those doubts presenting what I think could be the perfect solution for a lot of games: the game work in VR as long as you are piloting your ship then, when you leave the ship, the game automatically switches to 2D mode, not only permitting you to remove the headset and play on the screen without shutting it down and restarting the game, but also by giving you the possibility of projecting a 2D monitor directly into the headset and play from there and this, is what I think could work with KSP.

Immagine this: 

VAB, Hangar, BAE, first person and IVA in VR.

Third person works by putting you in some sort of mission control room setting, with a big virtual monitor on the scene your're actually controlling (just like ED with Odissey but maybe in 3D?) and, instead of a mouse and Keyboard you have the motion controllers analogic sticks plus the VR equivalent of a custom KSP controller, maybe even customizable. (or maybe just skip the virtual control room and put the player and the virtual controllers in the same 3D space of the ship you're controlling, like Moss)

This would work especially well on KSP since we're used to play it without analog controls on PC (usually WASD) and most of the other keybinds are functionality toggles or throttle (which, being a lever, works just fine in VR without IRL hardware).

Edited by Master39
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Master39 What you're describing would work. I think it would be a matter of preference of the player and the type of hand controls the player may have. If you have the cheap joycons I can see it limiting what you can do compared to have the more expensive, better featured controllers. I know that some people would rather use a joystick or hotas when flying or a keyboard and mouse when walking around. That's just a matter of preference though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

@Master39 What you're describing would work. I think it would be a matter of preference of the player and the type of hand controls the player may have. If you have the cheap joycons I can see it limiting what you can do compared to have the more expensive, better featured controllers. I know that some people would rather use a joystick or hotas when flying or a keyboard and mouse when walking around. That's just a matter of preference though.

Obviously mine was an example, point is that VR allows for far more than first person.

Only a small correction, no VR kit (none of the gaming One at least) has motion controllers like the joycons.

Joycons and Wiimotes are 3DOF accelerometer based controllers, VR motion controller from the cheap WMR controllers all the way up to the Index Knuckle Controllers are hand tracking devices that bring the position of the hand 1:1 into the game.

It's a big difference because while with 3DOF controllers you play by doing "gestures" in proper VR you're not memorising gestures, you're using your hands, 1:1.

Let's take a shooter as example, with a wiimote/joycon you do a gesture that triggers a generic reloading animation, in VR you have to physically pick a magazine from your belt/backpack and put it in the gun, as fast as you can, without dropping it (and when there's a headcrab jumping at your face that's not easy).

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Master39 said:

Only a small correction, no VR kit (none of the gaming One at least) has motion controllers like the joycons.

I know, it's what popped in my head as I was typing. I didn't notice it until you pointed it out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shdwlrd said:

I know, it's what popped in my head as I was typing. I didn't notice it until you pointed it out.

I thought so, but the main problem with VR is that most people don't actually know what it is, so over-explaining everything it's a job that automatically comes with the HMD when you buy one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Master39 said:

I thought so, but the main problem with VR is that most people don't actually know what it is, so over-explaining everything it's a job that automatically comes with the HMD when you buy one.

Now a days that's true. There's still an argument for using base stations to track too.

It sucks that most software requires a click of a button to do something. Click to select, click to grab, etc. You still have to hold onto something if you want interact with the software.

That's the whole thought of having to hold a controller with using VR.

Hopefully if VR sticks around long enough, the software and hardware can allow you to completely drop the controllers or change the input methods to something more natural.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

completely drop the controllers or change the input methods to something more natural.

Quest is already doing that, good for pausing Netflix or browsing Internet, terrible for gaming. Gaming in VR will have to find the balance between having to "suit up" to play and haptic feedback.

2 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

something more natural

On the other hand the Index controllers strap to your hands, allowing you to use them with the hand open and only close it when you're grabbing something (instead of using a button to grab).

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Master39 said:

 

Quest is already doing that, good for pausing Netflix or browsing Internet, terrible for gaming. Gaming in VR will have to find the balance between having to "suit up" to play and haptic feedback.

On the other hand the Index controllers strap to your hands, allowing you to use them with the hand open and only close it when you're grabbing something (instead of using a button to grab).

More natural to me would be similar to the setup depicted in "Ready Player One". A HMD, and haptic feedback gloves for a basic setup. You can add more sensors for better control for what you're doing or go full nerd with the whole body suit. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shdwlrd said:

More natural to me would be similar to the setup depicted in "Ready Player One". A HMD, and haptic feedback gloves for a basic setup. You can add more sensors for better control for what you're doing or go full nerd with the whole body suit. 

Or the James Dashner series about VR.

I think its called Eye of Minds

EDIT: Yes it is.

Edited by Kerminator1000
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
49 minutes ago, MaximilianIV said:

Wow! This is very pleasant to see such results. It seems like most people deal with virtual reality and they know everything. However, this is wrong. Most of them definitely need to read pros and cons of vr. I think that this article gives the fullest information about the main features of virtual reality.

The article you linked is about a digital services company offering VR services to estate agencies and not even of the gaming kind as the article only image clearly shows a tablet with a 2D "stree view like" tour of an apartment.

They're right, choosing to offer a VR tour option is a thing that estate agents have to carefully consider, balancing pros and cons, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with the implementation of VR in KSP2, especially since we were discussing while giving for granted today's gaming VR standards (a 6DOF HMD with 2 6DOF controllers) and the article vaguely talks about "glasses or similar".

 

Please, VR is a serious thing that require costly and delicate equipment, do not take the result of a "I'm feeling lucky" research on Google as anything close to enough research on the subject.

Edited by Master39
Link to post
Share on other sites

Neat thing about Unity is that standing up VR support is a snap. I really wouldn't expect the entire game to be playable in VR, but a mode that lets you fly ships you've already built in first person in VR would be really easy to put in. I'll happily take it as experimental feature without official support.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/30/2020 at 12:15 PM, K^2 said:

Neat thing about Unity is that standing up VR support is a snap. I really wouldn't expect the entire game to be playable in VR, but a mode that lets you fly ships you've already built in first person in VR would be really easy to put in. I'll happily take it as experimental feature without official support.

While it's relatively easy to activate VR support, having a good VR implementation means a lot more work for the developers.  A lot of the shortcuts 3D modelers do in games go out the window, as now the cockpit needs to be pretty much fully modeled.  A lot of cockpits in games are missing the faces that are hidden from the player's point of view.  Same thing holds true for FPSs, where the 1st person gun models are often incomplete, and make no sense if viewed from other angles.

That said, I'd love to see KSP in VR, but mostly because I want to build in VR, not so much fly in VR.  But to each their own.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Soda Popinski said:

While it's relatively easy to activate VR support, having a good VR implementation means a lot more work for the developers.  A lot of the shortcuts 3D modelers do in games go out the window, as now the cockpit needs to be pretty much fully modeled. 

Yeah, but KSP cockpits seem to be in good shape for that. There are a few controls that aren't represented that you'd probably need, and it'd take a few days of code to make it possible to interact with all the controls in VR. But overall, it's in a very good shape, and I can see someone taking this on as a small side project. It's also why I mentioned doing this as "experimental" feature, as supporting stuff like that usually eats a lot more resources than implementation.

Likewise, you need some minimal VR UI to get to the cockpit, but I don't think it needs to be anything fancy. So long as we don't expect it to be convenient and fully playable in all situations, it can be clobbered together with minimal effort. Honestly, I would almost expect modders to pick up most of the slack. We really just need a way to run the game in VR mode.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...