[1.12.x] Space Dust - Atmospheric and Exospheric Harvesting (24/06/2022)

[Nertea]

1 minute ago, toric5 said:

How long should one expect to wait to identify resources using the telescope? Ive had a trio (with 1 of each module between them) looking at eve for several days now, and Im wondering when I should move on and decide that eve is devoid of resources.

It's variable depending on resource, distance and instrument. and I've been struggling a bit with how best to represent that to a player without implicitly revealing  the resources present.

With Eve though, you should detect Eve and Argon somewhat rapidly (< 1 week). Unless you're using rescales, that is...

[TBenz]

4 hours ago, Nertea said:

It's variable depending on resource, distance and instrument. and I've been struggling a bit with how best to represent that to a player without implicitly revealing  the resources present.

With Eve though, you should detect Eve and Argon somewhat rapidly (< 1 week). Unless you're using rescales, that is...

Any reason to not just give a timer based on how long it would take to discover a resource if it was there, even if it isn't actually there?

[Nertea]

Resource discovery isn't sequential - you observe with all instruments and make progress on all bands that match those resources. Even showing a timer for each instrument will immediately tell players that the resource is there.

[Streetwind]

Perhaps there could be a function that, after a few days of observation, says "we are fairly certain that resource X is not present", or even "instrument Y does not appear to be picking up anything worth following up on". A timeframe shorter than what the actual discovery takes, but which still requires the instrument to be actively working for a while.

[Horus]

Awesome mod!

However, I'm so dumb that I don't understand how to make a harvester....harvest anything  I've created a simple harvest vessel and put it on the launchpad. It states "Harvester: Disabled".  What am I doing wrong? Testing in Sandbox mode.

[Nertea]

On 11/22/2020 at 12:36 AM, Streetwind said:

Perhaps there could be a function that, after a few days of observation, says "we are fairly certain that resource X is not present", or even "instrument Y does not appear to be picking up anything worth following up on". A timeframe shorter than what the actual discovery takes, but which still requires the instrument to be actively working for a while.

I can think about this, the way discovery is architected isn't super conducive to this, I'm afraid. 

What might be best is to rework things so that discovery is sequential; i.e. you discover resources one at a time. Then you could reasonably elapse the time needed to discover a single band and then declare nothing found.

47 minutes ago, Horus said:

Awesome mod!

However, I'm so dumb that I don't understand how to make a harvester....harvest anything  I've created a simple harvest vessel and put it on the launchpad. It states "Harvester: Disabled".  What am I doing wrong? Testing in Sandbox mode.

A screenshot of your craft might help.

[Horus]

1 hour ago, Nertea said:

A screenshot of your craft might help.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Horus

[Nertea]

On the pad? Also, you don't need that intake, the part has its own intakes. 

[Horus]

7 minutes ago, Nertea said:

On the pad? Also, you don't need that intake, the part has its own intakes. 

Yes, on the pad, static. Also, tried to launch it and land a bit aside. 

[Nertea]

Just now, Horus said:

Yes, on the pad, static. Also, tried to launch it and land a bit aside. 

No, I mean I'd like to see exactly what's going on on the pad in terms of the UI. Also the log. 

[Horus]

7 minutes ago, Nertea said:

No, I mean I'd like to see exactly what's going on on the pad in terms of the UI. Also the log. 

KSP Log

[Nertea]

Yeah log is full of errors. Will investigate. 

[Nertea]

Found the issue, will release a fix tonight if I have time. 

[Terrestris]

Edit: 

I suddenly remembered that someone had asked this question, maybe because I didn't overwrite the original file with the new version of Space Dust.
Please ignore this.

 

Update:

File updated, problem remain.

Log: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gmX4himxyx28wF5BR7rK22LzAwT_iQAm?usp=sharing

 

Original:

Really not sure about this amount of gas intake won't blow up my fuel tank.

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Dr.Lxweei

[Idleness]

3 minutes ago, Dr.Lxweei said:

Really not sure about this amount of gas intake won't blow up my fuel tank.

 

23,000,000 litres per second... my oh my! 

[JadeOfMaar]

HOOOOLY. I don't even know anymore!

[Nertea]

18 hours ago, Dr.Lxweei said:

Edit: 

I suddenly remembered that someone had asked this question, maybe because I didn't overwrite the original file with the new version of Space Dust.
Please ignore this.

 

Update:

File updated, problem remain.

Log: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gmX4himxyx28wF5BR7rK22LzAwT_iQAm?usp=sharing

 

Original:

Really not sure about this amount of gas intake won't blow up my fuel tank.

 

Wow... so that part doesn't seem to have a cap on it, so it is taking the full amount of air movement through the volume. I'll add a cap in the next FFT release . I think the other intakes that part has (fan, ram) do have caps.

New update, 0.2.0:

• Fixed harvesting that broke last update
• Added SystemHeat integration: when SystemHeat is installed, ModuleSpaceDustHarvester can add heat to the system, and will overheat
• Improved ModuleSpaceDustTelescope
  • Occlusion is now a thing: can't observe planets through planets
  • Atmospheric effects are now enabled: discovery rates are modulated by atmosphere (if your observatory is on a planet with atmo)

[RedParadize]

2 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Can you provide a full example of the config you are testing so I can take a look? Also, better to put it in the SpaceDust thread. 

I am using your config in SpaceDust\Definitions, only changed altitude really. At around 206 000 m of altitude tanks goes from empty to full, regardless if I change top altitude or falloff.

 

Spoiler

// Defines LqdDeuterium definitions for stock planets

// An example configuration for a SpaceDust resource
SPACEDUST_RESOURCE
{
  resourceName = LqdDeuterium
  body = Jool

  RESOURCEBAND
  {
    name = joolAtmo
    title = #LOC_SpaceDust_Band_Atmosphere

    // Maximum and minimum abundances (variation is by game seed)
    // In t/m^3
    minAbundance = 0.00033915
    maxAbundance = 0.00063915

    // Discoverability Data
    // --------------
    alwaysDiscovered = true
    alwaysIdentified = false

    // The lower this number, the longer the band will take to discover with a Remote telescope
    remoteDiscoveryScale = 0.5

    // Scale abundances by air density
    useAirDensity = False
    // Distribution model to use, can be Uniform or Spherical
    distributionType = Spherical

    // These parameters are specific to the Spherical model
    // -------
    // Altitudes are in km from sea level
    // Maximum altitude for a distribution
    altUpperBound = 280000
    // minimum altitude for a distribution
    altLowerBound = 0
    // peak of a distribution
    altPeak = 0
    // maximum variation of these altitudes (variation is by game seed)
    altVariability = 0
    // Falloff for altitude, can be Linear or None
    altFalloffType = Linear

    // lats in degrees
    // Maximum latitude for a distribution
    latUpperBound = 90
    // Minimum latitude for a distribution
    latLowerBound = -90
    // peak of a distribution
    latPeak = 0
    // maximum variation of these latitudes (variation is by game seed)
    latVariability = 0
    // Falloff for latitude, can be Linear or None
    latFalloffType = Linear
  }

  RESOURCEBAND
  {
    name = joolExo
    title = #LOC_SpaceDust_Band_Exosphere

    // Maximum and minimum abundances (variation is by game seed)
    // In t/m^3
    minAbundance = 0.0000000000000000000012
    maxAbundance = 0.0000000000000000000025

    
    // Discoverability Data
    // --------------
    alwaysDiscovered = false
    alwaysIdentified = false

    // The lower this number, the longer the band will take to discover with a Remote telescope
    remoteDiscoveryScale = 0.25    

    // Scale abundances by air density
    useAirDensity = False
    // Distribution model to use, can be Uniform or Spherical
    distributionType = Spherical

    // These parameters are specific to the Spherical model
    // -------
    // Altitudes are in km from sea level
    // Maximum altitude for a distribution
    altUpperBound = 2000000000
    // minimum altitude for a distribution
    altLowerBound = 0
    // peak of a distribution
    altPeak = 200000
    // maximum variation of these altitudes (variation is by game seed)
    altVariability = 0
    // Falloff for altitude, can be Linear or None
    altFalloffType = Linear

    // lats in degrees
    // Maximum latitude for a distribution
    latUpperBound = 90
    // Minimum latitude for a distribution
    latLowerBound = -90
    // peak of a distribution
    latPeak = 0
    // maximum variation of these latitudes (variation is by game seed)
    latVariability = 0
    // Falloff for latitude, can be Linear or None
    latFalloffType = None
  }
}

 

 

[Nertea]

2 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

I am using your config in SpaceDust\Definitions, only changed altitude really. At around 206 000 m of altitude tanks goes from empty to full, regardless if I change top altitude or falloff.

Which config are you changing, there's two here.

Thinking a bit, you're saying 'tanks go to empty', which says to me you're testing with a harvester. You should check with a scanner. A harvester has its own subtleties.

[RedParadize]

9 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Which config are you changing, there's two here.

Thinking a bit, you're saying 'tanks go to empty', which says to me you're testing with a harvester. You should check with a scanner. A harvester has its own subtleties.

I am changing atmo setup of Jool only. Next will be exo... so far I didn't got any amount at all using the exo.

On another try I had the planet fully scanned with all the related sensor... If I understand how it work at least.

Edit: It goes from empty to full... not to empty.

Edited December 2, 2020 by RedParadize

[Nertea]

5 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

I am changing atmo setup of Jool only. Next will be exo... so far I didn't got any amount at all using the exo.

Ok what I mean is that when you change the distribution and try to harvest it, you are subject to the limitations of the harvester, which includes cutoff for when 'atmosphere' no longer exists. So if you check with a local scanner that shows you the concentrations, you will get the real things. 

 

[RedParadize]

2 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Ok what I mean is that when you change the distribution and try to harvest it, you are subject to the limitations of the harvester, which includes cutoff for when 'atmosphere' no longer exists. So if you check with a local scanner that shows you the concentrations, you will get the real things. 

 

But... atmosphere do exist. I have 40m/s of drag at 208 000m. I will check the concentration give me a minute.

[RedParadize]

@NerteaHere is few image of what happen during the decent, Sensor and scoop are selected and you can see atmo drag in vessel info:

First image: I am clearly in the atmosphere given the drag I have, given what I have in SpaceDust\Definitions I should have been since 280km

Spoiler

Here is the moment where I detect something, value are low, but its there:

Spoiler

Just before I hit the magic 206 000m alt:

Spoiler

And when I finally hit the 206 000m, tanks go full instantly. Note that hydrogen volume isn't that much higher than it was at 210km

Spoiler

Edited December 2, 2020 by RedParadize

[Nertea]

3 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

@NerteaHere is few image of what happen during the decent, Sensor and scoop are selected and you can see atmo drag in vessel info:

Ok thanks. I'm pretty sure I'm correct. SpaceDust determines that you're in the atmosphere by a threshold, it has nothing to do with other systems. 

Your second image, you're in the atmosphere according to the sensor, which is more sensitive than the harvester (static pressure > 0.00001 atm). Third, you're now in according to the harvester (static pressure > 0.0001 atm). This probably doesn't show up unless in rescaled systems because the gradients are wider and the speeds are higher.  

I can make some mitigations to this to make both thresholds more sensitive. 

[RedParadize]

@NerteaI see, so the minimal static pressure is 0.0001? I think you might want to either raise that or factor in the fact that at that speed the actual pressure in front of the intake would be much higher (that is if it didn't had a inflatable shield in front of it!)

I think that I found a bug while going up:

Pressure displayed by the scoop do not reset it seem.