[1.9.1-1.10.1] Kiwi Tech Tree Overhaul 1.3.0 (17 December 2020)

hemeac · October 27, 2020

A "Probes/Planes Before Crew" type overhaul of the Tech Tree inspired by Zee's PBC Mod and Spink Akron/theonegalen's UnKerballed Start. It builds on that concept by further providing an upgrade path (via B9PS or the stock upgrade system when B9 is not available) for many of the parts, such as decreased dry mass, increased thrust/efficiency, or improved SAS levels. I attempt to balance the improvements by having the upgrades come with an increased cost and come later in the tech tree. This should leave a choice between getting upgraded tech at a slightly lower cost first. I am mostly testing this in 1.9.1 with limited testing in 1.10.1, but the new 1.10.1 parts should be in the correct nodes.

Download (Github) (Spacedock)

Dependencies (Not Included)

Support on Discord

Recommended Mods (with custom configs in KTT)

BetterSRBs
- Better SRBs is how KTT is handling the "upgrades" for SRBs. I also modify SRBs from mods not directly supported in Better SRBs custom configs if BetterSRBs is present.
Custom Barn Kit
- Increases the initial number of parts for the VAB and SPH to be 46 as I did not want part counts to be as binding as a game mechanic. If JNSQ or Sigma Dimensions is detected, will increase the part count limits to 72 to help offset the availability of only smaller fuel tanks in the beginning of the tech tree.
Engine Ignitor Reignited
- Provides a new gameplay challenge to consider how to best balance engine burns alongside limited ignitions
Kerbal Construction Time
- It is hard to argue that this mod should not be part of any game. The costs reflected in the engines and structural part upgrades are intended to have trade-offs through the increased construction time of your craft, thus balancing deltaV versus the time it takes to construct the vessel and completing contracts quickly.
Rational Resources
- Rational Resources implements some cold gas RCS modes into stock, ReStock+ and NF RCS blocks. I've added upgrades to these parts and this will be how KTT handles RCS upgrades. Be aware that this mod changes the distribution of planet resources and ISRU chains!
Science Param Editor
- Support for Stock; GPP, GEP, OPM; and MPE.

Recommended Mods with Compatibility via Mod

KSP Interstellar Extended
- KSPIE extends the late end of the tree by providing new parts and new game mechanics to KSP. @FreeThinker is providing compatibility with KTT via KSP Interstellar itself and has a plugin to help transition players currently using another tree. KSPIE will generally have the final say on part placements and game mechanics to maintain balance for KSPIE. The 2.0 version of KTT will formally adapt the late end of the tech tree used by KSPIE as well as color-coding part upgrades.

Other Recommended Mods

MandatoryRCS
Persistent Rotation
StageRecovery
- Entry costs and upgrades can get expensive, so it is good to recover as much of your vessel as possible.

Videos

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Objectives

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The Kiwi Tech Tree (KTT) overhaul, like its predecessors, revolves around the premise that probes should come before crewed space missions. You begin with 0.625m parts and work progressively larger, but also have access to plane cockpits from the start. To limit early crewed missions using plane cockpits, I have nerfed the skin temperature of crewed cockpits, but provide an upgrade for higher skin temperatures once you reach the High Altitude tech node (same tier as the Mk3 cockpit). I have made heat shields available relatively early, so you are of course free to experiment with re-entry.

KTT is a Tech Tree mod at it's core, however, I have tried to align stock parts and other mods to have similar functionality available with Nertea's NF Suite (if the relevant NF mods are installed). I further implement some optional mods within the NF Suite using B9PS functionality. This removes the need to choose one or the other within the gameplay environment. If you like to play with new parts as the modder intended, this is not the right tech tree mod for you.

Many parts have available upgrades such as engine upgrades which increase thrust/isp or structural upgrades which decrease the mass of the part. These upgrades generally come paired with a 50% increase in the part cost and available later in the tech tree. The rebalance is an attempt to make my tech choices a bit more meaningful and allow my kerbins to spend some time testing jets in Kerbin's atmosphere earlier in the career prior to launching in space.

I have added another 70+ tech nodes across the tree, but leave the general layout of the tree consistent with the Community Tech Tree, although some branches have shifted the relative location. While I shift some nodes, all nodes are present, thus leaving some compatibility with any mod not currently supported. To balance the additional number of science nodes, I have reduced unlock costs. Expect to collect around 40% more science points over the course of your career to unlock the majority of the tree. Science multipliers have increased within Kerbin, but have generally been reduced outside of Kerbin's Sphere of Influence. Expect to need to visit more planets to complete the tech tree.

I calibrated the nodes around stock, expansion packs, Restock/Restock+ and Missing History. The name of the nodes do not fully indicate the type of technology within the node, but rather the type of technologies that you should expect to find along the branch. However, some branches do not fully represent their current use (ie. miniaturization where you will find ground science). I have decided at this point to not rename them. Given the number of nodes, you will benefit by having several parts mods.

I have not spent excessive time balancing costs. Costs for some mods have been aligned roughly to stock costs. My general feeling is that money rewards should not be set too low in the difficulty settings, particularly if you are paying for parts to unlock. My cost revamps are fairly ad-hoc. If this a bug bear for you and you want to tackle a comprehensive review of the cost structure, please get in touch. I may readjust a few pieces if they are fundamentally out of proportion to other parts, but revamping costs are beyond the scope of what I will tackle.

In some cases, I have added rescaled parts, but indicated when and from what mod I have rescaled the parts within the description. In cases like Missing History, I will use the Restock texture when available for consistency in the visual style.

I have asked Nertea for permission in regards to using Restock/NF models for resizing (if they are installed) and have tried to indicate in the part descriptions which parts I have added in order to avoid confusion. However, please do not take this as Nertea's endorsement of the mod.

General Gameplay Changes

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Probe behavior changes in two ways: First is I have kept PBC's Telemetry Report. It is a nice and easy way to get some early science which is obviously needed given the additional nodes. I also reduce probes SAS levels to the lowest level for all probes and begin with no SAS functionality. SAS is turned on early through an upgrade in Engineering 101 and further SAS functionality is added along the Flight Control tech path.
Renamed the command pods to reflect the relative node in which they appear.
Cockpit heat resistance has been reduced until High-Altitude Flight which is added through a B9PS upgrade.
Rocket Engines have received an B9PS upgrade two tiers above them which adds 20% Thrust, 10% Efficiency for an additional 50% Cost and 5% Mass. As an added "bonus", the upgrade variants have custom names. These values are customizable by editing or patching the values in KiwiConfig.cfg
Jet Engines have received a B9PS upgrade two tiers later which adds about 20% thrust. The R.A.P.I.E.R. gets moved into the "unique" propulsion branch rather than part of the jet engines.
Command Pods, Fuel Tanks and the Mk1-3 Spaceplane Systems, and other structural parts have B9 upgrade systems implemented that reduce their dry weight by 20% for an additional 50% cost.
Batteries have energy density upgrades. Baseline battery densities come a bit later in the tech tree, but should be offset that probes have had their EC amounts augmented
Revamped Science points; Set the scienceCap to the same level as the base level eliminating need to repeat experiments. Reduced the level of transmit science of Mystery Goo, Material Lab to 14% of cap. Increased the transmission to 100% for all other stock science experiments.
Added around 72 new tech nodes. This increases the cost to unlock early tech tiers substantially, but KTT lowers the early cost of research nodes in most cases so it balances to a 40% premium in required science over the long-run.

Kerbalism 3.11 Compliant

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I have added support to a fair number of the mods that I support within KTT and believe that the Kerbalism experience will be enhanced when using KTT. However, the tree does not require it to fully enjoy the tech tree. I intend to add USI/MKS support in an upcoming update as a Kerbalism alternative.

Balances the Kerbalism parts to correspond to general KTT placements
Generally leaves the upgrades as is, the exception being pressure control upgrade which is a bit later in the tech tree corresponding to the later availability of command pods. To that end, I have removed the unpressurized state of the Mk1 Command Pod.
Added custom hard drive values to probes and command pods of supported mods.
Integrated science experiments to Kerbalism for several mods that have custom experiments.
Added radiation emitters to several atomic jets for mods not supported in-house by Kerbalism
Added a few comfort upgrades to some station parts.
Added reliability upgrades to solar panels and reaction wheels to make it more likely that they would be functional after interstellar travel.
Nerfed the reliability of engines slightly, both in terms of ignition failures and operation duration. Duration is a function of vacuum ISP (see note below). Vacuum engines have a higher baseline operation duration than surface launchers. While Kerbalism has an in-game mechanic to increase duration and number of ignitions, I add increases in the baseline reliability of engines through part upgrades that works alongside the in-built mechanic.
- Ion engine duration is now finite, but not likely to be a limiting factor. Argon thrusters now match Ion thruster durability.
- Burn Duration upgrades are engine specific and are tied to the same upgrade that increases thrust, ISP, etc. that normally is available two tiers after the engine is first available.
- Engine ignition reliability will be global between liquid fuel engines and separately, solid rocket boosters. This allows some early fun at watching engines explode. This will be less of a feature as the space program matures to avoid the game mechanic getting stale when you have spent several hours developing a craft and just want it to !@#%$#@$ work before you go to bed.
- Note: I have created an "S-shaped" function that will determine the duration based on vacuum ISP. The function was a fitted cubic spline based on a set of points that I felt would balance the duration. When calculating rated duration of hydrolox engines, I divide the ISP by 30% to get an approximate ISP if the engine was Kerolox. If JNSQ or Sigma Dimensions is installed, baseline duration for all engines will be increased by 60 seconds to account for the longer burns required.

Current Supported Mods (see Github for Details):

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Airline Kuisine 2.4.2
Airplane Plus 26.5
Arc Aerospace Wyvern 5 Crew Capsule 0.5
Asset Mk1 Reentry Pod 0.9
B9 Procedural Wings Fork 1.0.0
Beamed Power Plugin 1.0.5
BetterSRBs 1.2.3
BonVoyage 1.1.1
Bumblebee 0.5
Bureaucracy - Monthly Budgets, Reimagined 1.4
Coatl Aerospace 20 October 2020 (Github)
Completely Non-Aggressive Rocketry 1.0.2
Conformal Decals 0.2.5
CRE Stockalike British Rocketry 2.0
Cryogenic Engines 1.1.4
CryoTanks 1.5.2
CustomBarnKit 1.1.21.0
Decoupler Shroud 0.7.2
Deep Sky Core 3.1.0
Deep Space Surface Habitat Unit Pack 1.10.1
DeepFreeze 0.28.0
DMagic Orbital Science 1.4.3
Dodo Labs 1.3.1
Duna Direct 1.10.1
Engine Ignitor Reignited 1.3.6.2
Extraplanetary Launchpads 6.8.2
Fuji 1.1
Grounded 5.00
Heat Control 0.5.2
Interkosmos 0.3
Internal RCS 1.2
James Webb 1.10
KeR-7 1.0
Kerbal Atomics 1.1.4
Kerbal Attachment System 1.7
Kerbal Engineer Redux 1.1.7.2
Kerbal GPS Revived 1.2.0.1
Kerbal Inventory System 1.26
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems 1.6.12
Kerbal Reusability Expansion 2.8.6
Knes 1.8.2
KOOSE 2.0.5
kOS 1.2.1.0
Kraken Science 1.0
LTech 0.5.1.7 [Beta]
Luciole 1.5
Making Alternate History 1.10.1
MandatoryRCS 1.8
The Martian 1.10.1.2
M.O.L.E. 1.22.1 (Very Limited Support)
Mark IV Spaceplane System 3.1.2
Missing History 1.8.2
Missing Robotics 1.0
Mk-1 Stockalike Open Cockpit 1.3.0
Mk-33 1.0
Mk2 Stockalike Expansion 1.8.9.3
Mk3 Stockalike Expansion 1.5.1
Modular Launch Pads 2.1.2
Near Future Aeronautics 2.0.0
Near Future Construction 1.2.3
Near Future Electrical 1.1.3
Near Future Exploration 1.0.10
Near Future Launch Vehicles 2.0.3
Near Future Propulsion 1.2.2
Near Future Solar 1.2.3
Near Future Spacecraft 1.3.3
Rational Resources 1.13.0
RealPlume-Stock 4.0.1
Restock/Restock+ 1.1.2
SCANsat 20.4
Science Pancake 1.0.0
Science Param Editor 12.0
SmartParts 1.9.16
Smart Docking Aid 1.0
Starlink Satellite Pack 1.1.0
Stock TKS 1.0
Stockalike Mining Extension 1.1.6
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux 1.3.6
Stockish Project Orion 1.8.1
Super Heavy Boosters Historical - Nexus 2.0.200524 (Limited Support)
TD Advanced Propulsion Systems - 0.6.200606 (Limited Support)
Tundra Exploration 3.0
Tundra Technologies 3.0
Universal Storage 2 1.9.1.2
Ж-20 "Moroz" Spaceplane 1.3
Xingyun-2 1.0

Roadmap

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"Near Future" roadmap for Version 1.5. Some of these are a bit ambitious and not sure that I will practically get them done on my own.
"Possible" roadmap for Version 2.0

Known/Likely Issues

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Couple of upgrade lines in the Tech Tree may disappear when viewing them near the edges of the screen. This issue has disappeared "naturally" on my install.
Many of the extras for the Near Future Suite that change the behavior of engines, etc. will most likely not lead to expected results if installed. Check each mod above as some behaviors were adopted directly. This is not a bug and will not be fixed.
Kerbal Research & Development's upgrade system appears to be incompatible with the upgrades that I have implemented. I would expect bad things to happen.
Realistic Power Draw modifies the science modules and given the ordering of the pass in MM, this will likely break the changes to the science system I am doing. If you use this and want me to make a patch, get in touch.
Removing parts from installed mods (either manually removing configs or Perma Prune in Janitor's Closet) that have part upgrades will very likely break upgrades for other parts. If you remove the parts, you will need to remove the associated PARTUPGRADE node from the mod manually.
Very likely to break any mod that attempts to reconfigure engines or fuel tanks in any manner. I am not planning on supporting any alternative fuel switchers.
Smart Docking Aid functionality is added by this mod to all probes due to an inability to tie it to probes once Level 3 SAS upgrades have been applied. Limited testing suggests it will work.

Special Notes about Tweak Scale and Kerbal Research and Development

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By default, KTT is incompatible with Tweak Scale and Kerbal R&D due to the implementation of the upgrade system. Disabling the upgrades using the patch in the EXTRAS folder in versions 1.2 and later should allow KTT to work with both mods, but that is untested and unsupported by me.

Changelog

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1.2.0 (28 November 2020): Moved several aircraft structural parts earlier in the tree for stock and an engine from Airplanes Plus; Added limited Community Parts Titles compatibility (See Github for details on what this means if this is relevant to you); Added CommNet Antennas Extension Support; Fixed Mk-16 Parachute placed in non-existent node (Thanks to Github user: d4harp); Added more Engine Ignitor compatibility (Thanks to Clamp-o-Tron); Added support for Kerbal Atomics Extras Patch (Thanks to dylsh for identifying issue): NTRsUseLF; Actually fixed compatibility with Smart Docking Aid update (thanks to flart for identifying issue); Added one kerbuck to the entry cost of part upgrades to distinguish them from parts (suggestion by flart); Fixed missing entry costs for upgrades in Tundra Exploration; Added a difficulty science setting in Kiwi Config to add variation in the science points required; Added toggle to disable Battery, Command Pod, Fuel Tank, Parachute, RCS, SAS, Solar, Space Capability, Structural, and Space System Upgrades; Confirmed continued support for Rational Resources 1.13.0 and Deep Sky Core 3.1.0; Added correct NEEDS to kdex science experiment for Coatl Aerospace; Fixed incorrectly referenced upgrade for Lithium fuel tanks; Fixed missing plumes for Poodle/Malshi when ReStock not installed; Rebalanced a couple of costs of parts from SSPX; Added support for MonoPropellant engines which had MonoPropellant fuel tanks in engine upgrade patches; Fixed issue in which Stock and Making History engines converted when Cryo Engines is installed incorrectly required ReStock.
1.1.0 (20 November 2020): Adds Asset Mk1, Bureaucracy via CustomBarnKit, Stock TKS, Tundra Exploration, and Tundra Technologies Support; Standardized RCS Cold Gas Thruster Upgrade (Implemented when Rational Resources is installed); Minor code cleanup in Internal RCS; Added additional engine upgrade configs; Fixed incorrect FOR in various Kerbalism configs potentially leading to conflicts with Kerbalism not installed; Added better compatibility with Engine Ignitor and Kerbalism. Confirmed continued compatibility with updated Modular Launchpads, Conformal Decals, Smart Docking Aid.
1.0.1.1 (15 November 2020): Added Version File
1.0.0 (14 November 2020): Added Arc Aerospace Wyvern Support; Fixed MAH and BDB Compatibility for real
1.0.0RC2 (12 November 2020): Fixed Parachute Single being in start node; Fixed missing costs in Knes; Fixed cost of James Webb Telescope; Added missing structural upgrades in Near Future Construction; Fixed cost in Orion SpineS and SpineL; Small cost rebalancing in Stock, Open Cockpit, Luciole, Knes, AirplanePlus, CRE; Fixed duplicate atmosphere curves in two engines in Knes.
1.0.0RC1 (11 November 2020): Added "Other" Engine Upgrade; Several new fuel tank options; Removed legacy structural part upgrades; Added standardized upgrade support for Duna Direct, Luciole, Mining Expansion, Missing History, Mk2 Stockalike Expansion, Mk3 Stockalike Expansion, Near Future, Luciole, Nexus (Still not full support), Open Cockpit, Rational Resources, Planetary Bases, ReStock, SSPX, ; Fixed NEEDS for some parts in Mk3 Expansion; Updated Mk1 Stockalike Open Cockpit Support to 1.3; Cleaned up Partupgrade text for engines; Light testing for support in 1.10.1
0.9.7 (6 November 2020): Added a general config to specify upgrade values for engines, parachutes, space capable planes, command modules, fuel tanks, ore tanks, structural parts; Have begun to add code that specifies location of upgrade within the description (this will be an on-going process); Added general upgrade systems to Stock, Airplane Plus, Open Cockpit, and few parts within other mods as specified in individual files. Fixed bug with FeatureReliability as well as issue with MAH when BDB is present in installs. Added Engine Ignitor Configs for CNAR, Coatl Aerospace, Dodo Labs, KeR-7, MAH, Mars Direct, Nexus, TM4KSP, MOLE, Mk-33 courtesy of Clamp-O-Tron
0.9.5 (29 October 2020): Added additional general engine upgrade patches; Incorporated some stock and Making History engines to general engine patches; Fixed bug where general engine upgrade patch failed if engines didn't use ModuleEnginesFX; Removed additional added variables in late pass after their need is no longer required; Light changes to the placement of early solid rocket boosters; Added check for fuel tank upgrades to only apply the patch if the part has fuel as some parts do not have fuel if other mods are not installed; Added CryTanks as an explicit NEEDS, removed redundant patch that incorrectly added zzz_CryoTanks pass; Incorrect NEEDS on the SRB PARTUPGRADE; Fixed Upgrade for Twin-Boar introduced from 28 October update; Generalized the B9 Module Identifier for the engine upgrades across all mods to accommodate that not all use the newer ModuleEnginesFX
0.9.4 (27 October 2020): KSP Forum Release; Better fix for bug where EC upgrades are available in parts with an EC max capacity of 0; Fixed issue where Kerbalism was inserting reliability variables into the incorrect module; added a upgrade config for engines for future development.

Disclaimer

This mod has not been endorsed by _Zee, Spink Akron, Nertea, Well or any other mod/part creator referenced in the config files. All errors are my own. Please do not hassle mod authors if these configurations cause conflicts with their mods.

Special Thanks

Thanks to @Nertea, @JadeOfMaar, & @OhioBob as well as every single asset creator and mod creator for providing some great advice and very good examples of MM modules to learn how to script for KSP and gameplay enhancements that have made this mod possible. Also thanks to @Clamp-o-Tron for the final push to publicly release this on the forums.

License

Kiwi Aeronautics is copyrighted by Hemeac. All rights reserved. Please rename any public distributed fork of this project to exclude references to "Kiwi Aeronautics" if you plan to redistribute a variant of this project on a Kerbal Space Program related website.

Configuration Files are distributed under a MIT License.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

Additional Licenses and attributions:

Core tech tree configuration files are based on files originally created by _Zee and redistributed under the same MIT license. Additional config files are likely to be influenced by their respective mod creators and the respective licenses of the config files are noted within the mod files within each subfolder in GameData\KiwiTechTree\Configurations\Mods. While some mods have no derivative requirements, I have not bundled code from those mods. Any mod author who would like me to remove a configuration for their mod, please get in touch irrespective of your mods license requirements.

Some icons from Community Tech Tree by Nertea were modified bundled in this mod. They are licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0.

Additional icons used within the tech tree were modified from icons sourced from flaticon.com and thenounproject.com. I purchased these as a premium member of these services. Please check the licensing terms of these websites prior to any redistribution to ensure you remain in compliance with their terms.

Edited January 7, 2021 by hemeac

Nertea · October 28, 2020

This seems like a huge chunk of work, excited to see it released!

hemeac · October 28, 2020

41 minutes ago, Nertea said:

This seems like a huge chunk of work, excited to see it released!

Thanks, I don't think this would have happened had I not been locked within a 3 mi circle from my house for the last few months during winter. Lockdowns have their benefits...

Clamp-o-Tron · October 29, 2020

@hemeac I went ahead and booted it up on a clean install, and got many (bad) B9 and MM errors. I suspect it has to do with referencing non-existent tank types that aren't present in just stock.

Logs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bmah7058kc0qfjw/KSP.log?dl=0

GameData:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2cf2f6dazhk0pm/gameData.png?dl=0

hemeac · October 29, 2020

That was a good test to actually try it on a barebones install to see what fails :-). Thanks for the log files

hemeac · October 29, 2020

Kiwi Tech Tree 0.9.5 (Github)

Added some general engine upgrade patches that are selected through tagging for improved workflow
Changed order of some solid rocket boosters in Knes and Stock
Following fixed thanks to @Clamp-o-Tron
Added check for fuel tank upgrades to apply only if fuel is present
Removed redundant patch in CryoTanks patch which was incorrectly triggering zzz_CryoTanks pass
Fixed Incorrect NEEDS on SRB PARTUPGRADE node
Fixed upgrade for Twin-Boar upgrade
Generalized B9 Module Identifier for engine model switch which prevents errors when RealPlume is not installed

Clamp-o-Tron · October 29, 2020

@hemeac engine ignitor configs for supported mods. I think it would be an excellent recommended mod, as well as mandatory RCS. I'm also starting to take a crack at BDB, a massive project.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Clamp-o-Tron

hemeac · October 29, 2020

Thanks for the engine ignitor configs, Kerbalism has its own version, but will be great for those not using Kerbalism. I just pushed an update that adds support for CRE Stockalike British Rocketry and had redone CryoEngines as those are showcasing the "latest and greatest" code for adding the standard upgrades to engines and structural parts. Based off some feedback from a Github user who thought perhaps the upgrade multipliers should be a bit lower, my plan is to add a global config that allows the user to set those values, thus players will be less dependent on what I think are good values. That should be ready by the weekend.

Very happy if you want to tackle BDB. I was still very much undecided about how to tackle the engine variants in BDB and BDB in general as it is a pretty unique mod in terms of the design scope. Was waiting for inspiration on whether the engines should or should not fit into the upgrade system that I implemented here. Happy for you to make that decision.

Clamp-o-Tron · October 29, 2020

1 minute ago, hemeac said:

Thanks for the engine ignitor configs, Kerbalism has its own version, but will be great for those not using Kerbalism. I just pushed an update that adds support for CRE Stockalike British Rocketry and had redone CryoEngines as those are showcasing the "latest and greatest" code for adding the standard upgrades to engines and structural parts. Based off some feedback from a Github user who thought perhaps the upgrade multipliers should be a bit lower, my plan is to add a global config that allows the user to set those values, thus players will be less dependent on what I think are good values. That should be ready by the weekend.

Very happy if you want to tackle BDB. I was still very much undecided about how to tackle the engine variants in BDB and BDB in general as it is a pretty unique mod in terms of the design scope. Was waiting for inspiration on whether the engines should or should not fit into the upgrade system that I implemented here. Happy for you to make that decision.

I know about the kerbalism ignitions, it's just that it doesn't have ullage, which IMHO is the best part of the mod. They coexist very well if both installed

Yeah, BDB is massive. I'm going to let the historical variants stay, with no upgrades to engines (except for CH4 variants of LH2 engines with the same stats), and composite tanks only where it makes sense (I.E. no Atlas, which already uses balloon tanks).

On another note, do you have something changing the tanks from MAH to CH4, especially the ascent stage? I've converted the ascent engine for Leonidas, but the tanks right now are actually just "Dumpling" tanks clipped inside it, which is not enough for ascent to Munar orbit.

hemeac · October 29, 2020

11 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

I know about the kerbalism ignitions, it's just that it doesn't have ullage, which IMHO is the best part of the mod. They coexist very well if both installed

Yeah, BDB is massive. I'm going to let the historical variants stay, with no upgrades to engines (except for CH4 variants of LH2 engines with the same stats), and composite tanks only where it makes sense (I.E. no Atlas, which already uses balloon tanks).

On another note, do you have something changing the tanks from MAH to CH4, especially the ascent stage? I've converted the ascent engine for Leonidas, but the tanks right now are actually just "Dumpling" tanks clipped inside it, which is not enough for ascent to Munar orbit.

They were converted to Hydrolox/Methalox engines for reasons that I don't recall (perhaps it was in the description of the part that I decided to convert). I think I can add the LF/O variant back when CryoEngines is installed to give it balance. Do you still need the MAH RL-10 to have it's high ISP?

I will also add in a condition to my version of the CryoTank Switcher patch to not run if a variable in the part is set so then the standard cryotank patch should run for those cases.

Edited October 29, 2020 by hemeac

Clamp-o-Tron · October 29, 2020

4 minutes ago, hemeac said:

They were converted to Hydrolox/Methalox engines for reasons that I don't recall (perhaps it was in the description of the part that I decided to convert). I think I can add the LF/O variant back when CryoEngines is installed to give it balance. Do you still need the MAH RL-10 to have it's high ISP?

I will also add in a condition to my version of the CryoTank Switcher patch to not run if a variable in the part is set so then the standard cryotank patch should run for those cases.

Sorry, I wrote ambiguously. I'm great with the engine fuel switch, but I was wondering if the ascent stage tanks added a methane option to support those engines? Even directly patching it didn't really work when I was without KTT.

hemeac · October 29, 2020

1 hour ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Sorry, I wrote ambiguously. I'm great with the engine fuel switch, but I was wondering if the ascent stage tanks added a methane option to support those engines? Even directly patching it didn't really work when I was without KTT.

My fuelswitch patch should add in methalox fuel if you have an empty folder called CryoTanksMethalox in your gamedata folder. That is what Nertea uses in his patch to decide whether to add methalox tank variants, so I stuck to the same convention for the engines and tanks. Did a quick check and it does apply to both the ascent and descent stages of MAH.

Edited October 29, 2020 by hemeac

Beetlecat · October 30, 2020

Spectacular!

I'm really intrigued by many of your tweaks and adjustments, only a potential addition of BDB would keep me from feeling like you've developed a holy grail of tech trees.

hemeac · October 31, 2020

On 10/31/2020 at 3:13 AM, Beetlecat said:

Spectacular!

I'm really intrigued by many of your tweaks and adjustments, only a potential addition of BDB would keep me from feeling like you've developed a holy grail of tech trees.

Thanks! @Clamp-o-Tron has volunteered for BDB. Don't envy that task, BDB is a constantly evolving mod :-)

Just a quick general update. Have been working on some behind-the-scenes work to make the workflow faster in the long-run by standardizing some of the upgrades. This is due to some feedback from github user T10a who suggested some of the hydrolox upgrade values were a bit too high. I am generally ok with them at the moment, BUT thought it was an opportunity to allow users flexibility in making that choice for themselves.

The general config framework (this extends further, so just an illustration):

KIWI_ENGINE_MULTIPLIERS
{
	KEROLOX // This is for standard and Aerospike LF/O Fuel Engines
	{
		THRUST_MULTIPLIER = 1.2 // This gives the engine 20% additional thrust when upgraded.
		ISP_MULTIPLIER = 1.1 // This gives the engine 10% higher specific impulse when upgraded.
		
		UPGRADE_ENTRYCOST_MULTIPLIER = 1.5 // This is the cost multiplier for the upgrade relative to the original entry cost of the part.
		UPGRADE_COST_MULTIPLIER = 0.5 // This is additive, so upgrades engines cost 50% more than baseline
		UPGRADE_MASS_MULTIPLIER = 0.1 // This is additive, so upgrades engines have 10% more mass than baseline		
	}
	
	// Kerbal Atomics adds a dual-mode for NERV, but I will not separate out the multipliers
	NUCLEAR // This is for standard NERV Nuclear Engines
	{
		THRUST_MULTIPLIER = 1.2 // This gives the engine 20% additional thrust when upgraded.
		ISP_MULTIPLIER = 1.1 // This gives the engine 10% higher specific impulse when upgraded.
		
		UPGRADE_ENTRYCOST_MULTIPLIER = 1.5 // This is the cost multiplier for the upgrade relative to the original entry cost of the part.
		UPGRADE_COST_MULTIPLIER = 0.5 // This is additive, so upgrades engines cost 50% more than baseline
		UPGRADE_MASS_MULTIPLIER = 0.1 // This is additive, so upgrades engines have 10% more mass than baseline		
	}
}

We tag engines that will get an upgrade:

@PART[liquidEngine3_v2]:FOR[KiwiTechTree] // LV-9090 "Terrier"
{
	@TechRequired = advRocketry
	@entryCost = 5000
	@cost = 750
	engineUpgradeType = standardLFO
	engineNumber = 909
	engineNumberUpgrade = 969
	engineName = Terrier
	engineNameUpgrade = Maltese
	enginePartUpgradeName = terrierUpgrade
}

And a later pass applies those values into a B9 Part Switch:

// Standard LFO Engine Upgrade
@PART[*]:HAS[#engineUpgradeType[standardLFO]]:FOR[zzKiwiTechTree]
{	
	// Add these here without % or @ so they can be manually overriden by individual parts if required
	thrustMultiplierConfig = #$@KIWI_ENGINE_MULTIPLIERS/KEROLOX/THRUST_MULTIPLIER$
	ispMultiplierConfig = #$@KIWI_ENGINE_MULTIPLIERS/KEROLOX/ISP_MULTIPLIER$
	costMultiplierConfig = #$@KIWI_ENGINE_MULTIPLIERS/KEROLOX/UPGRADE_COST_MULTIPLIER$
	massMultiplierConfig = #$@KIWI_ENGINE_MULTIPLIERS/KEROLOX/UPGRADE_MASS_MULTIPLIER$
...
}

I've pushed an update to Github which has applied this to Stock + AirplanePlus. Will be going through and adding this framework the supported mods over the next week or so to allow more consistency in the experience.

hemeac · November 2, 2020

I've added some patches that add in the tech tree node that the upgrades are located in. Think this is a bit easier to use than the generic "This part has upgrades!" text currently. I do not think I am able to pull in the title of the tech tree nodes using MM patching without hard coding in the locations of the upgrades. Think this hits a good enough balance.

Beetlecat · November 2, 2020

That's a spectacular QoL improvement!

hemeac · November 3, 2020

I realized the importance of this as I was starting to forget where I placed the upgrades as more parts were added.

hemeac · November 6, 2020

Kiwi Tech Tree 0.9.7 (Github)

General Upgrade System framework implemented; supported configs will now indicate the location of the part or system upgrade (in the majority of cases).
Upgrade for parts updated in about 1/3 of supported mods
Engine Ignitor Configs courtesy of @Clamp-o-Tron
Bug fixes for BDB and Kerbalism (BDB does not have support in the tech tree, it just will not currently cause errors due to patches with KTT; note that there are still errors arising from issues between BDB and Kerbalism)

This was a fairly large update to add some general upgrade templates to KTT. They have been applied to some, but not all mods. Just wanted to see if they would cause conflicts with any setups before continuing to push too far ahead, so if you test this, please let me know with any log files and mod list to help narrow down issues.

One known issue is an issue that nuclear engines are not able to show vacuum stats within B9 detailed description. I do not know why they are failing in those engines and just those values. The issue does not appear to be impacting the engine performance itself. I have placed some placeholder text in the B9 description so you should not experience MM errors. If you are an expert in MM syntax and have some time to help diagnose, would love to hear from you.

There were some files that were deleted from the last release due to changes in the patches, so please delete the entire folder if you are re-installing.

Edited November 6, 2020 by hemeac

hemeac · November 11, 2020

Kiwi Tech Tree 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1 (Github)

Completed structured upgrades for parts for supported mods
Added location of upgrades for parts for easier navigation of tree
Add parts and support for new KSP 1.10 Parts (Only light testing done)
Add support for mods with updates that have added/changed parts: Rational Resources, Mk1 Stockalike Open Cockpit

I'll be testing the release over the next few days and if I don't hear any game breaking reports or massive imbalances, will make this a proper release. If you have any feedback, please let me know.

hemeac · November 12, 2020

Kiwi Tech Tree 1.0.0 Release Candidate 2

Some cost rebalancing in Stock, Open Cockpit, Luciole, Knes, AirplanePlus, CRE
Fixed duplicate atmosphere curves in Knes engines (added by me)
Added missing upgrades to parts in Near Future Construction and incorrect tech node for part in US2

hemeac · November 13, 2020

Kiwi Tech Tree 1.0.0

Added Arc Aerospace Wyvern Support
Fixed MAH and BDB Compatibility for real

Gargamel · November 13, 2020

@hemeacCongrats on the release.

Cruesoe · November 13, 2020

Damn, now I need to start another game!

JNSQ, Kerbalism and KTT, let's give it a whirl!

Congratulations on the release!

hemeac · November 13, 2020

@Cruesoe, Definitely let me know if you run into any issues with JNSQ. Clamp-O-Tron and I have been talking about some ideas for creating a JNSQ-specific contract pack for a few sounding rockets and X-Plane style contracts, but I'll be working on getting some more mod support in first.

theJesuit · November 13, 2020

Nice work @hemeac. Comgratulations!

What software did you use to put it all together?

[1.9.1-1.10.1] Kiwi Tech Tree Overhaul 1.3.0 (17 December 2020)

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