[1.9.1-1.10.1] Kiwi Tech Tree Overhaul 1.3.0 (17 December 2020)

[hemeac]

14 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Nice work @hemeac.  Comgratulations!

What software did you use to put it all together?

@theJesuit, mostly done just copying and pasting in Notepad++ with a couple of Excel sheets initially set up to help manually enter in the upgraded stats.  I had the benefit of being in a stage 3 lockdown for 3 months in winter, so had a lot of time.  Going forward, I've put together an Excel sheet that uses some functions to generate part patches for me to make my life a bit easier (hopefully).  It's in my Github in the sources folder (Template.xlsx) in case you are interested.  I generated the parts list using https://github.com/WuphonsReach/KSP-ConfigParser.  I'm not a programmer, but was able to pull out the variables I wanted. 

[theonegalen]

This looks really cool! I like the concept of using upgrades, but I was always too lazy to put in the effort necessary for it to work. I'll have to throw it into a new install and play with it a bit!

[theJesuit]

6 hours ago, hemeac said:

@theJesuit, mostly done just copying and pasting in Notepad++ with a couple of Excel sheets initially set up to help manually enter in the upgraded stats.  I had the benefit of being in a stage 3 lockdown for 3 months in winter, so had a lot of time.  Going forward, I've put together an Excel sheet that uses some functions to generate part patches for me to make my life a bit easier (hopefully).  It's in my Github in the sources folder (Template.xlsx) in case you are interested.  I generated the parts list using https://github.com/WuphonsReach/KSP-ConfigParser.  I'm not a programmer, but was able to pull out the variables I wanted. 

Hey! Me too!   I have special formulae set up and then copy into Word,  replace tabs and linespaces,  then into NotePad++.

Wow.  

Peace.

[hemeac]

5 hours ago, theonegalen said:

This looks really cool! I like the concept of using upgrades, but I was always too lazy to put in the effort necessary for it to work. I'll have to throw it into a new install and play with it a bit!

Thanks.  Let me know how it goes if you run into any issues.  If you see anything that may work in Unkerballed, happy for you to just grab and use it.

[hemeac]

Kiwi Tech Tree 1.0.1

• Added Support for Airplane Kuisine, Beamed Power Plugin, Deep Sky Core, Missing Robotics, StarLink Satellite, XingYun 2
• Moved incorrectly placed relay satellite in NFE
• Moved KAL 1000 controller one tier earlier in the tech tree
• Updated Template.xlsx to add Beamed Power Branch
• Fixed incorrectly formatted entry cost balancing in Mk3 Expansion Wing Segments which caused several log exceptions

[Cruesoe]

24 minutes ago, hemeac said:

Kiwi Tech Tree 1.0.1

• Added Support for Airplane Kuisine, Beamed Power Plugin, Deep Sky Core, Missing Robotics, StarLink Satellite, XingYun 2
• Moved incorrectly placed relay satellite in NFE
• Moved KAL 1000 controller one tier earlier in the tech tree
• Updated Template.xlsx to add Beamed Power Branch
• Fixed incorrectly formatted entry cost balancing in Mk3 Expansion Wing Segments which caused several log exceptions

Any chance of getting this on CKAN. I want to keep in top of the updates!

[hemeac]

I'll look to add support, but have not used CKAN myself.

[Cruesoe]

1 hour ago, hemeac said:

I'll look to add support, but have not used CKAN myself.

I'm sure @linuxgurugamer can assist, I've seen him offer support to others.

[hemeac]

@Cruesoe, I've submitted a pull request in Github to have it added.  I'll post here when I see it is officially added.

[hemeac]

Kiwi Tech Tree 1.0.1.1

• Added Version File for easier CKAN compatibility.  Thanks @Cruesoe for the suggestion and @HebaruSan for the support to make this as easy as possible.

Edited November 15, 2020 by hemeac

[Cruesoe]

If I was to give this a whirl in with a stock set up. What do you recommend the science percentage be set to for a good pace?

[hemeac]

@Cruesoe I think for Stock-only  experiments you can set it at 70% and get enough science from Kerbin only biomes (landed through high space) to unlock up through Tier 4 (Start is Tier 0) and this excludes cheesing KSC science.  I feel that could make for an "easy" setting if you are a relative completionist and likes to hit most biomes in a planet or can make for a better challenge if you don't want to hit a lot of biomes in a particular planet.  KTT adds about 40% more science points required compared to the Community Tech Tree over the course of the tree .

I did calibrate with the Science Param mod which I set Kerbin to a bit higher multiplier but external planets lower.  I am not the best KSP player and have started a new Kerbalism career at 70% and while it is still early in the tree, I don't think I will run into any serious hurdles.  I haven't playtested too much at lower numbers and haven't heard from anyone else on what science percentage has worked well for them.

 

[theJesuit]

@hemeac with kerbalism, I like to only visit a couple of biomes, like grassland, shores and ocean (water?).  From memory, this worked out to be the same without kerbalism as no biome visiting, but using KEI to instantly harvest all the KSC biomes, just to get to orbit with a vacuum engine.

 

[hemeac]

4 hours ago, theJesuit said:

@hemeac with kerbalism, I like to only visit a couple of biomes, like grassland, shores and ocean (water?).  From memory, this worked out to be the same without kerbalism as no biome visiting, but using KEI to instantly harvest all the KSC biomes, just to get to orbit with a vacuum engine.

 

Think that will be my personal strategy, not sure how much I want to just fly around the pole biomes and other hard to get biomes to just eek out a bit more science.

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, hemeac said:

Think that will be my personal strategy, not sure how much I want to just fly around the pole biomes and other hard to get biomes to just eek out a bit more science.

Yup.  I figure that anything accessible from a low altitude sounding rocket without too much direction control is fine and reasobabke for early grind hence the two biomes and ocean.  Other biomes at kerbin are really for... "I really need just a couple more science to unlock that next node but another trip to the Mün seems overkill... "

Simplex and Tetrix TechTrees are both recommended for 50% science for a reasonable playthrough meaning that you can't complete it without a trip to another planet.

Kiwi TechTree looks like a more extensive and expansive playthrough with many more nodes to unlock.  How does it compare to CTT for total science needed  to completely unlock?

Peace

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Just now, theJesuit said:

Yup.  I figure that anything accessible from a low altitude sounding rocket without too much direction control is fine and reasobabke for early grind hence the two biomes and ocean.  Other biomes at kerbin are really for... "I really need just a couple more science to unlock that next node but another trip to the Mün seems overkill... "

Simplex and Tetrix TechTrees are both recommended for 50% science for a reasonable playthrough meaning that you can't complete it without a trip to another planet.

Kiwi TechTree looks like a more extensive and expansive playthrough with many more nodes to unlock.  How does it compare to CTT for total science needed  to completely unlock?

Peace

Probably about the same. There are less of the exotic endgame nodes, but many more of the rocketry nodes to be researched.

I've been testing this on stock + kerbalism, and it seems like as low as 20% science, funds, and rep is playable as long as you're willing to constantly iterate and repeat missions.

[theJesuit]

17 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

20% science, funds, and rep is playable as long as you're willing to constantly iterate and repeat missions.

I don't usually do the lesser funds and rep to reduce grind on money.  20% science makes sense if the early nodes are cheap.   This is an issue with the Tetrix and Simplex early nodes admittedly.

Repeating missions with kerbalism is neccessary unless you think of ways to fly multiple experiments on the same rocket... at least initially... 

Peace.

 

[hemeac]

@Clamp-o-Tron and @theJesuit, so perhaps the balance then is about 50% for a game that isn't too much rinse and repeat.    This is a bit outdated, but the running total through Tier 4 is about 2266 points in KTT to 1594 in CTT. It should take about 227k science points to unlock the tech tree in KTT compared to 175k for CTT.  Some of the nodes in KTT does not currently have any support, but that should change as soon as Far Future Technology is finalized.  I originally set the early nodes a bit lower for Kerbalism, but will rebalance if necessary for a later 1.5 or 2.0 release.  On the list of things to consider is dynamically changing the nodes depending on the number of science-related mods.  Will see how that goes, but just an idea at the moment.

Ultimately, I did hit one of my personal goals in creating the tree.  Game testing the start node over and over again has finally given some ability to get propeller planes off the ground...
 

Spoiler

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by hemeac

[theonegalen]

Good to see GAP being played too!

[Beetlecat]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:45 AM, hemeac said:

@Clamp-o-Tron and @theJesuit, so perhaps the balance then is about 50% for a game that isn't too much rinse and repeat.    This is a bit outdated, but the running total through Tier 4 is about 2266 points in KTT to 1594 in CTT. It should take about 227k science points to unlock the tech tree in KTT compared to 175k for CTT.  Some of the nodes in KTT does not currently have any support, but that should change as soon as Far Future Technology is finalized.  I originally set the early nodes a bit lower for Kerbalism, but will rebalance if necessary for a later 1.5 or 2.0 release.  On the list of things to consider is dynamically changing the nodes depending on the number of science-related mods.  Will see how that goes, but just an idea at the moment.

Ultimately, I did hit one of my personal goals in creating the tree.  Game testing the start node over and over again has finally given some ability to get propeller planes off the ground...
 

  Hide contents

 

Is that an Airplanes Plus + Nesd's open cockpit mashup?

[hemeac]

5 hours ago, Beetlecat said:

Is that an Airplanes Plus + Nesd's open cockpit mashup?

Yes, was really happy that nesd added those new wing and strut parts in the update, really made it easier to put together a convincing looking plane (to my eyes).  AirplanesPlus is a must as I can never figure out how to get the BG propeller parts to get my planes to do anything but shake themselves apart on the runway.

[Beetlecat]

10 minutes ago, hemeac said:

Yes, was really happy that nesd added those new wing and strut parts in the update, really made it easier to put together a convincing looking plane (to my eyes).  AirplanesPlus is a must as I can never figure out how to get the BG propeller parts to get my planes to do anything but shake themselves apart on the runway.

I can't wait to try them!

Yeah, I hear that about the BG parts. They're so half-baked in some ways--the least of which is no sounds at all. Even the fueled turbine could at least sound like a jet engine... c'mon Squad/PD. you got this!

[evileye.x]

Great job done here!

I really tempted to start new JNSQ/Kerbalism + Engine Ignitor career with this overhaul.

I voted for B9 (and B9 legacy) itself. However I guess it should be ok to use anyways?

Also I guess PBC contract pack can be used with your tree as well?

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by evileye.x

[hemeac]

@evileye.x, Thanks!  You may want to quick test to see if Engine Ignitor and Kerbalism play well together as Kerbalism has limited ignitions as part of its "FeatureReliability".  I've been relying on Kerbalism's implementation of that, but @Clamp-o-Tron may know as he's used both.

If B9 and B9 Legacy does not make it this round, I'll throw it up as an official option in the next pass.  I actually haven't checked the PBC contract pack, but took a quick peak and nothing looked popped out as definitely incompatible with KTT.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

6 hours ago, hemeac said:

@evileye.x, Thanks!  You may want to quick test to see if Engine Ignitor and Kerbalism play well together as Kerbalism has limited ignitions as part of its "FeatureReliability".  I've been relying on Kerbalism's implementation of that, but @Clamp-o-Tron may know as he's used both.

If B9 and B9 Legacy does not make it this round, I'll throw it up as an official option in the next pass.  I actually haven't checked the PBC contract pack, but took a quick peak and nothing looked popped out as definitely incompatible with KTT.

Kerbalism disables engine reliability if Engine Ignitor is installed. Engine failiures are the most important kind of failiure, so I'll poke around to see if I can get just ignitions and rated burn time to disable.