[1.9.1-1.10.1] Kiwi Tech Tree Overhaul 1.3.0 (17 December 2020)

[hemeac]

@flartSaw the issue was an incorrectly specified NEEDS in my Restock_RealPlume.cfg, deleted the effects even when RealPlume was not installed.

Edited November 24, 2020 by hemeac

[hemeac]

Part of the 1.2 update coming up for this weekend will be setting up a system for localization support.  I had already set up the tree itself for localization, but will be slowly rolling out to the part upgrades, etc.  I am not multilingual so let me know if you are interested in contributing any non-English versions.

In addition, some of you may have noticed that I have changed titles on some parts.  This can conflict in some cases with the Community Parts Titles mod.  The stopgap solution was to disable any of my changes to the titles if CPT is installed.  This won't create any game breaking behavior, but there will be inconsistencies in some of the flavor text for the B9 engine upgrades.  If anyone is using CPT and KTT together and has some familiarity with MM patching and wants to volunteer some hours, your help would be appreciated.  I am not sure if I will directly patch the issues myself.

Lastly, still working on Tantares and should be ready by next weekend.  I thought I would showcase some behind the scenes which both shows how awesome and awful Excel can be simultaneously.

Spoiler

 

[EchoLima]

Which node is the Mk16 Parachute intended to be in?

I know the larger 1.25m parachute is in Enhanced Survivability, but I can't find the .625m one on the tech tree...

[Clamp-o-Tron]

3 minutes ago, EchoLima said:

Which node is the Mk16 Parachute intended to be in?

I know the larger 1.25m parachute is in Enhanced Survivability, but I can't find the .625m one on the tech tree...

That’s a bug caused by a typo. Fixed version is on github master, or the typo could be fixed manually as this commit did.

[hemeac]

Kiwi Tech Tree 1.2.0

This update is proudly sponsored by 

Spoiler

 

• Adjusted stock aircraft parts to generally appear earlier in the tree; includes Breaking Ground rotors and propellers (thanks for feedback from discord user PhilippeDS)
• Added limited Community Parts Titles compatibility (see Github for details)
• Fixed Mk-16 Parachute placed in non-existent node (Thanks to Github user: d4harp)
• Added more Engine Ignitor compatibility (Thanks to Clamp-O-Tron)
• Added support for Kerbal Atomics Extras Patch, NTRsUseLF (thanks to dylsh for identifying issue)
• Actually fixed compatibility with Smart Docking Aid Update (thanks to flart for identifying issue)
• Fixed missing entry costs for upgrades in Tundra Exploration
• Added a difficulty setting in KiwiConfig.cfg to add variation in science points required to unlock nodes in the tech tree
• Added a difficulty setting in KiwiConfig.cfg to lower the science acquired for unkerballed experiments (similar to PBC) (Thanks to flart for suggestion)
• Added toggles in KiwiConfig.cfg to disable various upgrade systems in KTT. An example patch is available in the Extras folder
• Added correct NEEDS to KDEX science experiment for Coatl Aerospace
• Rebalanced costs for a couple of parts in SSPX
• Fixed issue for Stock and Making History Engine Upgrades when Cryo Engines installed without ReStock (Thanks for discord user Revan Tiberius for identifying issue)
• Added 1 kerbucks to upgrades to make it easier to identify in the tech tree (Thanks to flart for suggestion)
• Confirmed support for Rational Resources 1.13.0 and Deep Sky Core 3.1.0

 

[Caerfinon]

Huzzah! Well done you.

[flart]

Based on how It is written, the possibility to disable crucial part changes (like with the Poodle) means to rewrite patches, so it's will not be happening any time soon, 
but could you add list of parts and mods, where these kind of changes are happened? 

[hemeac]

10 hours ago, Caerfinon said:

Huzzah! Well done you.

@Caerfinon, Thanks!

3 hours ago, flart said:

Based on how It is written, the possibility to disable crucial part changes (like with the Poodle) means to rewrite patches, so it's will not be happening any time soon, 
but could you add list of parts and mods, where these kind of changes are happened? 

@flart, The easiest will be for me to ping you when I get localization support added to the parts mods as that will be easiest list to work from.  That will probably happen after I finish BDB so near the end of the year.  I think the vast majority of part titles that I changed were for mods without current CPT support.  The one mod that I may see issues may be Airplane Plus as there were a couple of cases such as the Lotus where you changed the number in the engine title.

[hemeac]

Making progress on Tantares.  The base Tantares mod is finished and you can find the configs in Github.  I am currently working on the development version of Tantares Launch Vehicles mod on Github.  As Beale is working through a major upgrade, I will hold back on releasing the config file until the actual release happens.  The reason is that the engine upgrades in the config will throw MM errors if the release version is used and the development version of several parts have yet to have textures applied.  However, I am getting all the background work so it will be ready probably within a day or two after it launches.  Not sure on the scope of the updates and Beale's timetable, so only will say that the release for that will be Soon^TM. Will start on Tantares SP afterwards and unless anything changes, start on BDB.  Had some fun comparing the fuel tank I give you in the beginning of the tree and Beale's N1 fuel tanks.  Just a touch larger.

 

[EchoLima]

Suggestion: move the near Future Solar advanced photovoltaic panels from Battery Tech (30) to Electrics (85), and do the reverse for the stock OX-4 folding solar panels. The NF panels are more advanced / produce more EC than the stock ones (unless I'm misreading something?).

I'm loving playing with this mod btw.

Edited December 3, 2020 by EchoLima

[hemeac]

@EchoLima.  If memory serves, some solar panels have higher ec can be a bit earlier if they do not track.  I'll check to see how that balance has been maintained as NF Solar was one of the first mods I set up.

[Majk]

This looks amazing!

However, the amount of nodes and new parts makes this fairly complicated to reason about. Even worse, there are some empty nodes (due to mods missing) and some upgrades seem to refer to parts that are from missing mods (e.g. what is a Destiny module?). I know that I can grep the config files when looking for something particular, but I'd prefer not to do that for every item and every node.

For the missing parts, would it be possible to enhance the tree to include some information about which mods add parts to a given node? For example, by creating an upgrade part saying "The following mods add parts/upgrades to this node: A, B, C". Since all the information is in the configs, it shouldn't be too difficult to generate.

For the upgrades, can they be hidden if the part they refer to is not installed?

[Clamp-o-Tron]

1 hour ago, Majk said:

This looks amazing!

However, the amount of nodes and new parts makes this fairly complicated to reason about. Even worse, there are some empty nodes (due to mods missing) and some upgrades seem to refer to parts that are from missing mods (e.g. what is a Destiny module?). I know that I can grep the config files when looking for something particular, but I'd prefer not to do that for every item and every node.

For the missing parts, would it be possible to enhance the tree to include some information about which mods add parts to a given node? For example, by creating an upgrade part saying "The following mods add parts/upgrades to this node: A, B, C". Since all the information is in the configs, it shouldn't be too difficult to generate.

For the upgrades, can they be hidden if the part they refer to is not installed?

KTT has a semi-hidden feature of changing some stock and mod part names so they aren't as generic as "Mk 1-3" or so. The Making History 2-crew pod becomes the "Destiny", which is as far as I can tell the only time that string is mentioned in KTT.

As for empty nodes, try 

which KTT has an internal configuration for. It also adds some nice optional features like hiding unsearchable nodes, "fog of tech"-style, which I always turn on.

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Clamp-o-Tron

[Majk]

1 hour ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

KTT has a semi-hidden feature of changing some stock and mod part names so they aren't as generic as "Mk 1-3" or so. The Making History 2-crew pod becomes the "Destiny", which is as far as I can tell the only time that string is mentioned in KTT.

As for empty nodes, try 

which KTT has an internal configuration for. It also adds some nice optional features like hiding unsearchable nodes, "fog of tech"-style, which I always turn on.

 

I'll give it the mod a try, but I was actually hoping for the opposite. For example, when I saw empty "Hydroponics" category, I searched the config files for what's supposed to be in and it introduced me to Stockalike Station Parts Expansion, which I proceed to install. 

Thank you for your explanation of what Destiny is. Unfortunately, the last time I checked Making History wasn't playing well with custom planet mods.

[hemeac]

@Majk, thanks for the feedback.  It should be fairly straightforward to add what is the name of the upgrades for some of the structural parts and fuel tanks within the part description of the parts.  Engines are generally straightforward as they appear two tiers later in the same branch and the description already informs you on what upgrade node the upgrade can be found.  However, you should only have upgrades for mods that exist.  The partupgrade code all have a NEEDS tag set so they run only if the mod is found.  

Agree that Hydroponics is one of the nodes that is a bit under utilized.  It is placed there as that is it's location from the Community Tech Tree, but it is too early in the tech tree for station parts from the stock game.  It is there for mods that have smaller diameter station parts as you saw, SSPX.

You should not have any issues with Making History and planet packs.  I am using both expansions alongside several planet packs in my career and have never run into an issue specific that I could tie specifically to Making History.  If you do, that is something that you may want to raise on the Kopernicus thread, R-T-B is pretty good at looking at any issues.

Edited December 3, 2020 by hemeac

[Majk]

1 hour ago, hemeac said:

You should not have any issues with Making History and planet packs.  I am using both expansions alongside several planet packs in my career and have never run into an issue specific that I could tie specifically to Making History.  If you do, that is something that you may want to raise on the Kopernicus thread, R-T-B is pretty good at looking at any issues.

I encountered an exception similar to https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/179363-getting-exceptions-and-cant-return-to-the-ksc/#comment-3477493 and https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/19510, and figured that it might simply be broken.

Your reassurance made me investigate again. One binary search later, it was caused by a landed piece of debris on Guardian. Editing the save file to change its type from "Debris" to "Lander" fixed the issue.

Yay!

[flart]

Spoiler

 

On 11/21/2020 at 10:37 PM, hemeac said:

My only guess at the moment is that another mod exists that patches the Chrenkov from Restock Plus to be a multi-mode engine other than Kerbal Atomics.  I should be able to go through your ModuleManager.log to see what is patching the Cherenekov and try narrowing it down from there.

there it is https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alncj27YxKc-hlooX6ErWvfqQmsd?e=0dJz0w

Edited December 8, 2020 by flart

[hemeac]

@flart, The config cache is interesting.  You have a mod somewhere that is adding a duplicate ModuleEnginesFX with the engineID = LF to the Cherenkov.  That is not showing up in any of my nine KSP installations that have Kerbal Atomics and ReStockPlus with KTT, so I honestly don't know what mod modifies the Cherenkov in that manner.  While I do modify engine performance in some cases, I have only added dual mode engines for some very specific cases and not with the Cherenkov.  In this case, the  B9 error on mine is a symptom, but not a cause of the issue.  Happy to help track down that mod if you want to also post your ModuleManager.log in KSP/Logs/ModuleManager.log so I can see which other mods you have installed and what is patching it.

In particular, I suspect that someone saw the KerbalAtomics patch for the Cherenkov and lowered the vacuum ISP from 620 to 605 and copied the entire moduleenginesFX to make the change and didn't delete the old one.

Here is what is added by Kerbal Atomics

Spoiler

MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleEnginesFX
			thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
			exhaustDamage = True
			ignitionThreshold = 0.1
			minThrust = 0
			maxThrust = 300
			heatProduction = 5
			fxOffset = 0, 0, 0
			EngineType = LiquidFuel
			exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 1.5
			engineID = LF
			runningEffectName = fx-cherenkov-running-lf
			PROPELLANT
			{
				name = LiquidFuel
				ratio = 0.9
				DrawGauge = True
			}
			transformMultipliers
			{
				trf0 = 0.02
				trf1 = 0.02
				trf2 = 0.96
			}
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 620
				key = 1 195
				key = 2 0.001
				key = 10 0.001
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = MultiModeEngine
			primaryEngineID = LF
			secondaryEngineID = LH2
			primaryEngineModeDisplayName = LF
			secondaryEngineModeDisplayName = LH2
		}

 

And this is  what the mystery mod is adding:

Spoiler

MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleEnginesFX
			thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
			exhaustDamage = True
			ignitionThreshold = 0.1
			minThrust = 0
			maxThrust = 300
			heatProduction = 5
			fxOffset = 0, 0, 0
			EngineType = LiquidFuel
			exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 1.5
			engineID = LF
			runningEffectName = fx-cherenkov-running-lf
			PROPELLANT
			{
				name = LiquidFuel
				ratio = 0.9
				DrawGauge = True
			}
			transformMultipliers
			{
				trf0 = 0.02
				trf1 = 0.02
				trf2 = 0.96
			}
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 605
				key = 1 185
				key = 2 0.001
			}
		}

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by hemeac

[flart]

34 minutes ago, hemeac said:

ModuleManager.log in KSP/Logs/ModuleManager.log

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alncj27YxKc-hltQpYbAdLK3MXAP?e=BBhBqA

[hemeac]

12 hours ago, flart said:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alncj27YxKc-hltQpYbAdLK3MXAP?e=BBhBqA

@flart, The issue is that you have KerbalAtomicsLH2NTRModSupport which has a ReStockPlus patch that is functionally similar to KerbalAtomics/Patches/NTR/hydrogenNTRsRestockPlus.cfg.  Think I would rather have the solution set up on Nertea's end as that is something that can be fixed with a more targeted NEEDS in the MM patches. 

[evileye.x]

Hi, @hemeac!

I started a new JNSQ career with your tech tree and I really appreciate job you have done. Yet I have researched only one node (lol) - but already have some ideas.

What's was always missing from KSP career mode - sensible progression with options still available to player. And that's why I really like your approach.

 To have some background, my core gameplay mods for this one are:

Kiwi tech tree; JNSQ with KK and Omega stockalike structures; KCT ;Bureaucracy; Kerbalism; Exploration Plus contract pack (but I'm thinking about swapping it to Career Evolution contract pack instead)

Many mods to improve on "realistic" approach - Engine Ignitor, custom RW patch (removal from all parts except dedicated RW wheels, reduction torque, increase consumption and price greatly), persistent rotation, custom patch to reduce engines crash tolerance, Kerbal Krash System to have leakages, etc.

Several thoughts I came up with while starting playthrough.

1) Game lacks basic type launch clamps - it's so silly when your sounding rocket just sits on the bottom on the launchpad. SXT has excellent part for that - fits perfect in start tech tree node.

Spoiler

2) I don't really like stock fairings. No limits, weird shapes, etc. I used to use Procedural Fairings, but didn't really like lack of size limitation with them. Also sometimes they require a lot of fiddling in the VAB. Then I came up with using Simple Adjustable Fairings. Those using gorgeous KW models in base mod. Also BDB has gorgeous fairing for SAF (and I ripped some of them from mod to use in my playthrough to have shape variety. unfortunately whole BDB is waaay to much for me - amazing historical parts). Worth to mention @Beale started to work on SAF fairings too, hopefully eventually he will continue 

Anyways, I came up with config for SAF - you may want to add it in your project:

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size0]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=start
}

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size0Expanded]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=basicRocketry
}

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size1]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=basicConstruction
}

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size1_5|SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size1Expanded]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=generalConstruction
}

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size2|SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size1_5Expanded]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=advConstruction
}

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size3|SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size2Expanded]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=specializedConstruction
}

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size4|SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size3Expanded]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=composites
}

@PART[SimpleAdjustableFairing_KWRocketry_Size4Expanded]:NEEDS[SimpleAdjustableFairings]
{
	@TechRequired=metaMaterials
}

To conclude - Simple Adjustable Fairings are awesome. Everybody should try them. 

3) The game also lacks a basic probe for sounding rockets - stayputnik don't really fits with 0,625 profile. It's barely fits expanded Able fairing (as in image above). To fix that I also used part from SXT (Dontstaysputnik). It's already different from staysputnik - smaller, have inbuilt decoupler, have little bit more electrical charge, less science data capacity. To make distinction even more clear I removed SAS from it - makes it suitable only for spin stabilized rockets, parachute dropped science probes, telemetry science handling in manned flight, etc. If not to use SXT, one might copy and resize stayputnik with MM patch, I suppose.

P.S. Also, for sadistic purposes basic jet engine can be moved from start to basic aviation node, to force hard settings players to build propeller plane first. 

Spoiler

If you build single motor plane, roll force on take off makes it quite interesting challenge. And twin motor is kinda hard to control without action groups. However it only matters on 50% science (as I play), kerbalism (cannot get instant science from basic sounding rockets) and zero KSC biomes (JNSQ). During first month I barely got some budget for next month (Bureaucracy), researched Grounded tech node and built 1 basic science truck.

Spoiler

But all this makes even starting game an engineering challenge. Very refreshing experience without going full RO - RP

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by evileye.x

[Superfluous J]

Just dropping a note to let you know I tried this out with a mostly stock (as far as parts and mechanics are concerned, most of your recommended mods are ones I've already tried and didn't like) and I had a great first hour or so. Looking forward to more. Your part placement and tree design decisions really changed the way I played and that is always welcome. This is also my first major foray into upgrades and that's impressing me as well.

Thank you!

[Veiron]

Hello~ I really like your Mod and makes the whole tech tree challenging...

 

Uhmmm~ I think I installed one too many mods though... and now it looks like this https://ibb.co/Xpg05Wf

Is there a way to make it look sorta discernable? Or would it be better to take out a few mods?

 

[Clamp-o-Tron]

4 hours ago, Veiron said:

Hello~ I really like your Mod and makes the whole tech tree challenging...

 

Uhmmm~ I think I installed one too many mods though... and now it looks like this https://ibb.co/Xpg05Wf

Is there a way to make it look sorta discernable? Or would it be better to take out a few mods?

 

It seems to me like you have multiple tech trees installed. Could we get a quick screenshot of your GameData?

[Veiron]

Good call~ Apparently, the Community Tech Tree was in there... I don't remember installing that though~

 

ANyway, I uninstalled it and now it got worse~ Hahahah~