Kerbal Space Program 2 to be released in 2022 [Discussion Thread]

[J.Random]

It's kinda weird that developers are posting pretty pictures if what they're busy with is "creating a foundation". This message (and the delay itself) tells me that the core isn't in place, and yet somebody wastes their time on kerbal mood ring. Also, I would advise against using "never been done before" argument, for obvious reason.

Oh well, at least it's not crowdfunded, so let's hope for the best.

Edited November 20, 2020 by J.Random

[K^2]

1 hour ago, J.Random said:

It's kinda weird that developers are posting pretty pictures if what they're busy with is "creating a foundation".

Not trying to sound antagonistic, but what do you expect them to post? Print outs from unit tests of core systems? They very clearly don't have a working game yet. Even if they are making progress on, say, aerodynamics simulation, I suspect anything complex explodes from acute case of Kraken, based on what we've seen so far. So it's kind of hard to show off exactly what they're doing there unless it's something with pretty pictures.

And having each department find something they can work on until they get unblocked on something else is quite common. A designer waiting until rockets are stable to begin work on anything less critical would be just wasting time. There's no reason why they wouldn't be working on UI for something as potentially trivial as kerbal mood.

Finally, the latest batch of pretty pictures is actually showing that they are doing significant rendering and material work, which is great to see. That means their rendering engineers and tech art are busy with exactly the sort of things they should be working on right now. There's still a lot of work there to be done, but it's being worked on. So I don't see a reason to suspect that teams working on core are somehow doing worse just because their work doesn't result in things that are easy to tease on a forum.

[shdwlrd]

2 hours ago, Alexoff said:

This means we can think in any direction.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. Yes, you can share your thoughts on the situation. You should also expect someone to disagree and argue your position.  

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Perhaps the KSP has no competitors among similar games, but there are hardly many people among us who do not have favorite games of other genres. And computer games must also compete with TV shows and social networks in the limited time of consumers.

I'm currently playing 4 games regularly and up to 8-10 more sporadically, I'm following a TV series and reading a book and in both I have new upcoming titles I'm hyped for and old things that are in queue for a rewatch-replay and outside media-consumption I also have 4 or 5 different hobbies on which I split my free time on (Yes, I have a boring job).

Let's say I'm a kind of an expert in having to split my free time and attention on multiple things (actually too many of them) and no, those things are not competing to each other. Because when I want to play a city building game I will go back to Cities Skylines, when I want to play with amusement parks I'll go back to Planet Coaster and when a new Elite expansion drop I'll go check what it is about and probably set up my HOTAS and seat for VR again.

The difficult part is not jumping from one thing to another, the difficult part is keeping your attention in one place enough to complete what you want to do with that particular game/hobby, but that's not a problem for the company selling the game, when you'll get distracted by the next The Expanse season you have already bought the game and given your money to them, no need to make ridiculous plans to pretend the game is going to release before it actually does, when the game is going to  release the fan base will be starved enough of KSP-like games that they will flock as soon as they see an ad for KSP2 in r/space or under a SpaceX or Nasa launch video on YT.

 

7 hours ago, J.Random said:

Oh well, at least it's not crowdfunded, so let's hope for the best.

Well, that's more or less the reason of why it doesn't make much sense to continuously argue for the worst, nobody is loosing money on this except for Private Division and speculating on potential new features or discussing how we would design them is fun even without the hope of some of that speculation actually being in the game.

[Incarnation of Chaos]

41 minutes ago, Master39 said:

Well, that's more or less the reason of why it doesn't make much sense to continuously argue for the worst, nobody is loosing money on this except for Private Division and speculating on potential new features or discussing how we would design them is fun even without the hope of some of that speculation actually being in the game.

Thank you; the way these people are talking you'd think there was an actual product that was available for purchase at some point.  The only people out any money if the game fails is 2K and Intercept, not anyone here.  And I'm sure that people will find a way to manage until 2022, there's several great games coming out between now and then along with KSP still receiving updates. Even if KSP2 is a flaming dumpster fire, in a couple months people will move on to other games....

[TeddyBearBonfire]

5 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Thank you; the way these people are talking you'd think there was an actual product that was available for purchase at some point.  The only people out any money if the game fails is 2K and Intercept, not anyone here.  And I'm sure that people will find a way to manage until 2022, there's several great games coming out between now and then along with KSP still receiving updates. Even if KSP2 is a flaming dumpster fire, in a couple months people will move on to other games....

I expect that it's how such people guard themselves against disappointment. They argue for the likelihood of negative outcomes so that were such an outcome to occur, they can have their "told you so" moment, and bask in some semblance of victory; on some (probably subconscious) level, they'd rather presume the worst than take the risk of having their hopes dashed.

[Bej Kerman]

On 11/18/2020 at 6:27 PM, Probro said:

On 11/12/2020 at 11:27 AM, Bej Kerman said:

[snip]

if a game that i have been waiting for over a year now because of a delay has been delayed again then i have a right to be mad, ksp was supposed to be out already jeez cyberpunk is gonna come out before ksp does i should be playing this game right now but its been delayed

[snip] The team owes you nothing. Nada.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gargamel
Portions Redacted by Moderator

[J.Random]

17 hours ago, K^2 said:

Not trying to sound antagonistic, but what do you expect them to post? Print outs from unit tests of core systems? They very clearly don't have a working game yet. Even if they are making progress on, say, aerodynamics simulation, I suspect anything complex explodes from acute case of Kraken, based on what we've seen so far. So it's kind of hard to show off exactly what they're doing there unless it's something with pretty pictures.

Long time ago, when dinosaurs were still roaming Earth and KSP was in Early Access, there were interesting examples of explanations for problems and solutions for core stuff. "Here's how we sphere the cube", "here's how we approximate trajectories", "here's how we're dealing with precision errors" and so on. War stories about beating various Krakens would be way more interesting than what they're showing now. Even if some Kraken hasn't been defeated yet, formulating the issue in written form may actually help developers themselves.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, J.Random said:

and KSP was in Early Access

The game was in early access, an unfinished and raw version of the game in the hands of public and they had to show that they where actually working on the still unfinished product their customers already paid for.

[K^2]

2 hours ago, J.Random said:

Long time ago, when dinosaurs were still roaming Earth and KSP was in Early Access, there were interesting examples of explanations for problems and solutions for core stuff. "Here's how we sphere the cube", "here's how we approximate trajectories", "here's how we're dealing with precision errors" and so on. War stories about beating various Krakens would be way more interesting than what they're showing now. Even if some Kraken hasn't been defeated yet, formulating the issue in written form may actually help developers themselves.

Yeah, little blog posts would be nice to have, but you have to keep in mind that this is significantly more effort than Nate grabbing a few screenshots and posting them on the forum.

When the game is on sale, especially in Early Access, the (potential) players are the customer. So it makes sense for developers to spend significant effort to keep their customers happy.

Right now, Intercept's customer is Private Division, not us. So Intercept's first priority is keeping the project moving, second, keeping Private Division updated, third is their own team, and only somewhere after that keeping the fans updated. That's why I don't think it's fair to expect something more significant than a screenshot every once in a while.

[Probro]

On 11/20/2020 at 11:51 AM, Bej Kerman said:

[snip] The team owes you nothing. Nada.

i never said the team owes me anything but if someone promises me a game and then delayes the game by 3 years then i have every right to be mad

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gargamel
Portions of Quote Redacted by moderator.

[razark]

23 minutes ago, Probro said:

i never said the team owes me anything but if someone promises me a game and then delayes the game by 3 years then i have every right to be mad

The mistake is thinking they promised you a damn thing.

[Bej Kerman]

20 hours ago, Probro said:

On 11/20/2020 at 11:51 AM, Bej Kerman said:

[snip] The team owes you nothing. Nada.

i never said the team owes me anything but if someone promises me a game and then delayes the game by 3 years then i have every right to be mad

[snip] You haven't payed a dime to anyone on the team. [snip]

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gargamel
Portions Redacted by Moderator

[Probro]

20 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

[snip] You haven't payed a dime to anyone on the team. [snip]

what do you mean i havent even paid a dime to anyone on the team I. BOUGHT. THE. GAME. i have bought thier merchandise along with all the dlc's so yeah i have given my money to the team, you have nothing to say anymore so you resort to insults and i am going to say this one more time.

 

 

If take two promises me a game that is set to be released in 2020 then delay it to 2021 fine ill wait as long as the game will be polished but if they knew full well that the game wouldn't be finished in the first place and delay it again to 2022, i have to wait 3 YEARS for this game to come out because i have been waiting since 2019 and i was HYPED for this game to come out, EVEN CYBERPUNK IS COMING OUT BEFORE KSP2 so id suggest you [snip] accept that im mad about this delay theres no salt to begin with just me being angry about a game that was supposed to come out 9 MONTHS AGO!!!!!

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gargamel
Portions Redacted by Moderator

[dprostock]

Good thing he doesn't have AI!!!
It should be remembered that KSP is not a game, it is a simulator, and the adherents to simulators are a small group, much smaller than those of the games kills and kills, and so on, those users, mostly are of adulthood...
Don't let another simulator appear that attracts fans more...
And I sincerely doubt that this is a development problem, it seems to me that it is more of a problem of personnel, contracts and businesses...
And as an adult, I don't like to be "teased"... 
 

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, Probro said:

20 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

[snip] You haven't payed a dime to anyone on the team. [snip]

what do you mean i havent even paid a dime to anyone on the team I. BOUGHT. THE. GAME. i have bought thier merchandise along with all the dlc's so yeah i have given my money to the team, you have nothing to say anymore so you resort to insults and i am going to say this one more time.

 

 

If take two promises me a game that is set to be released in 2020 then delay it to 2021 fine ill wait as long as the game will be polished but if they knew full well that the game wouldn't be finished in the first place and delay it again to 2022, i have to wait 3 YEARS for this game to come out because i have been waiting since 2019 and i was HYPED for this game to come out, EVEN CYBERPUNK IS COMING OUT BEFORE KSP2 so id suggest you [snip] accept that im mad about this delay theres no salt to begin with just me being angry about a game that was supposed to come out 9 MONTHS AGO!!!!!

You bought KSP 2? You don't even realise that KSP 2 is being developed by a different team and you're complaining thinking you've paid money to them.  Now, knowing fully well you have not payed a single atom to the team, [snip]. They're working hard enough. If you would like to know how it feels, DM me whenever you set yourself a deadline for a hobby/job/task so I can berate you without holding back whenever you have to push said deadline back.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gargamel
Portions Redacted by Moderator

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Probro said:

what do you mean i havent even paid a dime to anyone on the team I. BOUGHT. THE. GAME.

Technically no, you bought KSP1, made from another team, and if you bought it before 2017, Private Division didn't see a dime of that money. KSP2 is 100% a Private Division investment, none of us has paid anything or has done anything more for the game other than making obvious that we are potential future customer when the game will finally release.

 

2 hours ago, Probro said:

If take two promises me a game that is set to be released in 2020 then delay it to 2021 fine ill wait as long as the game will be polished but if they knew full well that the game wouldn't be finished in the first place and delay it again to 2022, i have to wait 3 YEARS for this game to come out because i have been waiting since 2019 and i was HYPED for this game to come out, EVEN CYBERPUNK IS COMING OUT BEFORE KSP2 so id suggest you [snip] accept that im mad about this delay theres no salt to begin with just me being angry about a game that was supposed to come out 9 MONTHS AGO!!!!!

It's fine to be "liquided" about having to wait even more, a little naive maybe expecting no delays between the change in studio and 2020 being 2020, but completely useless to waste effort to continuously shouting how much liquided and salty we are about the delay. It doesn't do anything other than poisoning the environment of the forum and, if we are unlucky enough, convince Private Division that they can sell an unfinished and rushed mess as "early access" and make us pay for it as a finished product.

 

2 hours ago, dprostock said:

It should be remembered that KSP is not a game, it is a simulator

 A simulator is a game unless you're using it for professional-related training, sim-people elitism never cease to amaze me, too scared of admitting that you spend tons of money in toys as an adult?

 

2 hours ago, dprostock said:

And I sincerely doubt that this is a development problem, it seems to me that it is more of a problem of personnel, contracts and businesses...

You know what could also cause a delay? A bigger budget, an unforeseen problem with the engine, and increase of scope and size of the game like the one they announced in February when they revealed the new studio or, like anyone in here seems to like to believe, T2 evil overlord deciding to make the players suffer a little longer from his office built underground inside an active Hawaiian volcano. The truth is that we don't know and every one of those theories are equally possible (maybe not the volcano one, everyone knows that T2 is operated from a huge swastika-shaped base on the hidden side of the Moon).

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gargamel
Portions of Quote Redacted by moderator.

[Lord Aurelius]

27 minutes ago, dprostock said:

Good thing he doesn't have AI!!!
It should be remembered that KSP is not a game, it is a simulator, and the adherents to simulators are a small group, much smaller than those of the games kills and kills, and so on, those users, mostly are of adulthood...
Don't let another simulator appear that attracts fans more...
And I sincerely doubt that this is a development problem, it seems to me that it is more of a problem of personnel, contracts and businesses...
And as an adult, I don't like to be "teased"... 
 

KSP absolutely is a game. Simulators are a well established genre of games, and KSP's simulation is actually quite light compared to games like MS Flight Simulator which can be used for some RL flight credits. There's a lot of game systems in KSP that have been intentionally simplified and behave quite differently than RL for gameplay, fun and accessibility reasons.

[Bej Kerman]

21 minutes ago, Lord Aurelius said:

1 hour ago, dprostock said:

Good thing he doesn't have AI!!!
It should be remembered that KSP is not a game, it is a simulator, and the adherents to simulators are a small group, much smaller than those of the games kills and kills, and so on, those users, mostly are of adulthood...
Don't let another simulator appear that attracts fans more...
And I sincerely doubt that this is a development problem, it seems to me that it is more of a problem of personnel, contracts and businesses...
And as an adult, I don't like to be "teased"... 
 

KSP absolutely is a game. Simulators are a well established genre of games, and KSP's simulation is actually quite light compared to games like MS Flight Simulator which can be used for some RL flight credits. There's a lot of game systems in KSP that have been intentionally simplified and behave quite differently than RL for gameplay, fun and accessibility reasons.

Reminder that in the Apollo days, physics similar to those used in KSP 1 were used to calculate trajectories.

[Gargamel]

Folks, a number of posts have been removed or edited.   Please be civil to others and do not belittle another member because of their comments.   It's ok to attack the merits of their thoughts and arguments, but do not attack the person. 

[Probro]

5 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

You bought KSP 2? You don't even realise that KSP 2 is being developed by a different team and you're complaining thinking you've paid money to them.  Now, knowing fully well you have not payed a single atom to the team, [snip]. They're working hard enough. If you would like to know how it feels, DM me whenever you set yourself a deadline for a hobby/job/task so I can berate you without holding back whenever you have to push said deadline back.

no i didnt buy ksp 2 i bought ksp 1 and take two owns ksp so therefore i gave money to them, not only that i also bought thier merchandise so that makes me a contributor to ksp

[linuxgurugamer]

4 minutes ago, Probro said:

no i didnt buy ksp 2 i bought ksp 1 and take two owns ksp so therefore i gave money to them, not only that i also bought thier merchandise so that makes me a contributor to ksp

That makes you a customer, not a contributor.  And you have already received what you paid for.

Edited November 22, 2020 by linuxgurugamer

[razark]

2 minutes ago, Probro said:

no i didnt buy ksp 2 i bought ksp 1 and take two owns ksp so therefore i gave money to them, not only that i also bought thier merchandise so that makes me a contributor to ksp

You bought KSP.  You are entitled to KSP.  You bought merchandise.  You are entitled to merchandise.

But you have not bought KSP2, therefore you are not entitled to KSP2.  Take Two is not under any obligation to release KSP2 on a certain date, nor are they obliged to ever release it.  They could simply cancel the project, and you would be entitled to absolutely no recourse.

[dprostock]

6 hours ago, Master39 said:

 A simulator is a game unless you're using it for professional-related training, sim-people elitism never cease to amaze me, too scared of admitting that you spend tons of money in toys as an adult?

 

The children must wait until Christmas for Papa Noel to bring them his gifts, hoping that's what they asked for, which is said to be a lie.
Adults spend their money the way they want and when they want and want me to treat them like adults, without lies.
Elite? No, just reality. These simulators/games fall into a well-determined age range, even more so among those who continue to use it after three months.
However, it is more than obvious that if it is announced in December 2021 that the departure of KSP2 by 2025 will be delayed, there will be people who will be happy about it and applaud it. Conformists.

[Probro]

54 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

That makes you a customer, not a contributor.  And you have already received what you paid for.

i still gave money to take two so his argument is invalid