Kerbal Space Program 2 to be released in 2022 [Discussion Thread]

[Bej Kerman]

19 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

You want more marketing and better communication. You need to stop being so needy.

Gaming: The only market where informed consumers are looked and beaten down by... other consumers who wish to not be informed.

Devs have got better things to do than pander to those that get a heart attack when they're not saturated by information for more than 3 seconds.

[PDCWolf]

15 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Devs have got better things to do than pander to those that get a heart attack when they're not saturated by information for more than 3 seconds.

You mean the things they weren't doing that caused a 2 year delay? Also if you think a video every 3 months and a  15 second clip of an untextured asset every once in a while is "saturation"... we've clearly got very differing standards.

[darthgently]

27 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

If they promised it for release and skip it, that's not gonna look good, as much as me or you might care about multiplayer

Didn't say they should skip it all together, just that if it isn't fully debug'd on release day I really don't care as it doesn't matter to me.  I don't want making multiplayer perfect to hold up a release.  Is that more clear?

28 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Gaming: The only market where informed consumers are looked and beaten down by... other consumers who wish to not be informed.

I don't know.  It isn't like we are voting on a new way to do elections here or something actually important.  It is a game; entertainment.  I've been informed enough by the vids that have dropped.  I want to be surprised (pleasantly, of course).  I don't need to know everything about KSP 2 nor do I want to know.   Just as I don't want to know everything about a movie before I go to see it.  No spoilers is a good thing; or used to be. 

When not informing customers on all details prior to a game releasing is deemed to be some kind of harm, and the remaining mysteries make the customers feel anxious or unsafe in some way because the unknowns are too overwhelming we could be in big trouble as a species. 

Repeated requests for more spoilers and more control over the dev process could be seen as a form of beating on those who don't require such things.  But I'm not making that claim, just pointing out that there are many angles from which to look at this

[Vl3d]

One person says art is made for the basement because real artists don't need validation, another says he's saturated by videos coming out every 5 months basically showing KSP1 with mods, another is afraid of the spoilers of knowing the absolute minimum about new core features of the game before buying it, another wants it to be a persistent world cooperative massively multiplayer game. We all have some cooky opinions, that's for sure.

[darthgently]

22 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

One person says art is made for the basement because real artists don't need validation, another says he's saturated by videos coming out every 5 months basically showing KSP1 with mods, another is afraid of the spoilers of knowing the absolute minimum about new core features of the game before buying it, another wants it to be a persistent world cooperative massively multiplayer game. We all have some cooky opinions, that's for sure.

While I nearly completely, and predictably, disagree with how you summed up what other people have written, I will just leave this:

If I was given the choice of waiting another two years for KSP2 or another two years for the craft below (or some version of it) to put a payload into orbit in the real world there is zero doubt that I'd choose to wait another 2 years for KSP 2.  Good thing we don't have to make that choice, but I'm emphasizing the importance of things in my life

Edited April 30, 2022 by darthgently

[Vl3d]

Who has better communication practices: SpaceX or KSP2 marketing?

[darthgently]

23 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Who has better communication practices: SpaceX or KSP2 marketing?

I'm going to treat this as a rhetorical question and let you have the last substantial word as I feel like I'm being led in circles instead of down a road to somewhere I want to end up being

 

[Vl3d]

How many Starship update videos have you seen in the past 2 years? Do they spoil the launch for you? Simple questions.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

How many Starship update videos have you seen in the past 2 years? Do they spoil the launch for you? Simple questions.

A lot, and nope.

But now answer my question: Do photos of the Starship advance in any way the launch date? The only influence the popularity of the program had on it is the fact that the FAA is taking forever for the environmental assessment due to all the attention on it.

Also consider that, differently from a videogame, the Starship is a very big and very visible physical object, quite difficult to hide and thus mostly reported by third parties. If we could spy KSP2 code from half a Km away we would have an army of stalkers updating the forums too.

[Vl3d]

6 minutes ago, Master39 said:

If we could spy KSP2 code from half a Km away we would have an army of stalkers updating the forums too.

I wouldn't really call them stalkers, SpaceX allows them to take photos and videos.

But transparency regarding progress is important. Look at how much hate Blue Origin is getting because of the way they hide everything. SpaceX is really teaching everyone a lesson in corporate communication and transparency.

[razark]

I used to find out about new games by going to the store.  Release date were announced by a box being on the shelf.  Previews were screenshots on that box.  Feature reveals were the text on the box.

Has patience become so damn rare now?

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, darthgently said:

Didn't say they should skip it all together, just that if it isn't fully debug'd on release day I really don't care as it doesn't matter to me.  I don't want making multiplayer perfect to hold up a release.  Is that more clear?

I don't know.  It isn't like we are voting on a new way to do elections here or something actually important.  It is a game; entertainment.  I've been informed enough by the vids that have dropped.  I want to be surprised (pleasantly, of course).  I don't need to know everything about KSP 2 nor do I want to know.   Just as I don't want to know everything about a movie before I go to see it.  No spoilers is a good thing; or used to be. 

When not informing customers on all details prior to a game releasing is deemed to be some kind of harm, and the remaining mysteries make the customers feel anxious or unsafe in some way because the unknowns are too overwhelming we could be in big trouble as a species. 

Repeated requests for more spoilers and more control over the dev process could be seen as a form of beating on those who don't require such things.  But I'm not making that claim, just pointing out that there are many angles from which to look at this

Let us not confuse spoiling stuff, with revealing the capabilities of the software. Answering questions like:

1. How well does it work
2. Will it have X feature at launch
3. Will X feature be part of the scope, or is it never coming

Do not spoil anything at all, specially when the game is built as an allegedly bettered version of an existing product. The marketing they've shown till now includes less than 2 minutes of actual hands on gameplay, and when you add the 2 year delay with a still mysterious release date, really doesn't bode well for whatever will come out. Now sure, I can wait till release date and let other people play it first, but I'm guessing they do want my preorder, along with everyone else's, and my preorder comes attached to the condition of both pricing, and them making a good job of informing me as a consumer. 

You seem to think "more information" means them showing me easter eggs, stats for every planet, a detail of all parts with their numbers, and that couldn't be further from the truth.  

 

2 hours ago, Vl3d said:

One person says art is made for the basement because real artists don't need validation, another says he's saturated by videos coming out every 5 months basically showing KSP1 with mods, another is afraid of the spoilers of knowing the absolute minimum about new core features of the game before buying it, another wants it to be a persistent world cooperative massively multiplayer game. We all have some cooky opinions, that's for sure.

As I said, Gaming: The market where you're beaten down for trying to be an informed consumer.

 

4 minutes ago, razark said:

I used to find out about new games by going to the store.  Release date were announced by a box being on the shelf.  Previews were screenshots on that box.  Feature reveals were the text on the box.

Has patience become so damn rare now?

I'm almost 30 now, I was alive back then, and you'd get FREE SHAREWARE CDs of stuff to try, with a nice "if you like it, it releases xx/xx/xxxx, purchase at xxxxxxx". Of course, games now don't even fit a CD, or even a full on storage drive anymore, so we can't have that, but we have this amazing thing called the internet where you can show me an unlimited amount of media about the product without concern for mine or your storage, or wasting my time with a bad demo that also took the space of something else on that shareware CD.

After we had patience till 2020, shoving a 2 year delay with a release date still in the air is good enough grounds for patience to run out. Some people like to think that every dev you hold accountable will pull off a cyberpunk, and every dev you don't hold accountable will pull off a duke nukem, it's neither in reality. Accountability helps the product in the end, like it did NMS, like it is doing for Cyberpunk, and like it is doing for many other games. 

[darthgently]

8 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Let us not confuse spoiling stuff, with revealing the capabilities of the software. Answering questions like:

Yeah, no offense, but I'm not going in circles on this, so bowing out

[Vl3d]

@PDCWolfI like your values.

[darthgently]

9 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

I'm almost 30 now

At twice that, I find patience easier I guess

[razark]

7 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

every dev you hold accountable

What's to be held accountable for?  The devs should be accountable to their customers, and right now, not a single person on this forum is a customer.

The game will come out, or it won't.  The game will be good, or it will suck.  Not one bit of information/screenshot/video/whatever is going to change any of that.

[PDCWolf]

1 minute ago, razark said:

What's to be held accountable for?  The devs should be accountable to their customers, and right now, not a single person on this forum is a customer.

The game will come out, or it won't.  The game will be good, or it will suck.  Not one bit of information/screenshot/video/whatever is going to change any of that.

 

11 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Now sure, I can wait till release date and let other people play it first, but I'm guessing they do want my preorder, along with everyone else's, and my preorder comes attached to the condition of both pricing, and them making a good job of informing me as a consumer. 

 

[razark]

Preorder?

As in, you haven't given them any money for KSP2 yet?

As in, you're not their customer at this point in time, and they are not beholden to you in any way?

 

Ok, then.

[Pthigrivi]

Guys. Information about all that will be released in 3-6 months. Theres no reason to release it now while they’re polishing things up. Just relax. Intercept isn’t SpaceX, and honestly Elon does more harm than good when he opens his mouth. So yeah, I prefer Intercept. 

[Vl3d]

20 minutes ago, razark said:

The devs should be accountable to their customers, and right now, not a single person on this forum is a customer.

I'm a customer of Private Division, I've bought KSP1 + 2 DLC. I'm also a guaranteed pre-release customer willing to spend $60 on KSP2. Besides this, I've invested time, energy and emotions in this franchise. I am part of this community.

10 minutes ago, razark said:

As in, you haven't given them any money for KSP2 yet?

This is an inappropriate business attitude. Even potential customers deserve respect and answers about future products.

Look at how Blizzard is communicating about their new WOW expansion, one year before release.

Transparency is not a bad thing. No one is forcing them to lie or promise things they cannot deliver. We just want to know more things about the game. Why is this so hard to understand?

Edited April 30, 2022 by Vl3d

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

I'm guessing they do want my preorder, along with everyone else's, and my preorder comes attached to the condition of both pricing, and them making a good job of informing me as a consumer. 

A job they can do literally one minute before opening the preorders and wouldn't change much for anyone.

Let's suppose they don't say anything, they stop interacting with the forum altogether and then, suddenly, they release all the info in a week culminating with the actual launch of the game at the end of that week, would any of us do anything different only because they choose to inform us when they started to sell the game and not months before?

My answer is nope, I'm going to buy Elden Ring after they were tight lipped till the last possible minute (I still haven't because I'm playing other games), I'm going to buy Starfield regardless the fact that we only saw concept art and we'll probably see gameplay only in the weeks before the launch and I'm going to do the same for KSP.

The marketing strategy they choose for the game is not at all relevant for the quality of the game, it's not going to affect the result in any way, and most likely it's not even in the hands of the devs, being the game backed by a big publisher.

1 minute ago, Vl3d said:

 

Look at how Blizzard is communicating enjoy their new WOW expansion, one year before release.

Blizzard is not exactly an example of a good developer I would make, especially lately, but look on their comunication department regarding Overwatch 2, they did show 2 or 3 things, still no release window, delay after delay, no updates.

When the game will drop the whole community will forget about the wait and the hype, as always with all games.

[Vl3d]

5 minutes ago, Master39 said:

The marketing strategy they choose for the game is not at all relevant for the quality of the game, it's not going to affect the result in any way, and most likely it's not even in the hands of the devs

We're not talking about the devs here. We're talking about the communications and marketing department, about PR. It's good practice to be transparent and not keep people in the dark, constant communication builds a good reputation.

I will laugh so hard if they will announce KSP2 multiplayer will be MMO-like. Then everyone will say "oh why didn't you tell us earlier, why were you hiding it, you were afraid of the feedback?". Mark my words.

[razark]

13 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

I've bought KSP1 + 2 DLC.

We're talking about KSP2, though.  If you want to complain about the lack of news on KSP1 development, go right ahead.  You've earned it.

13 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

I've invested time, energy and emotions in this franchise. I am part of this community.

Uh huh.  And?

 

13 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Transparency is not a bad thing.

No, it's not bad.  But it's not owed, either.

 

13 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Even potential customers deserve respect and answers about future products.
...
We just want to know more things about the game.

Constantly demanding more info and complaining they're not telling you enough gets you what?

 

13 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Why is this so hard to understand?

Hell if I know.

 

I guess I just don't see the big deal about waiting to find out about a game.  I'll buy it when it releases if it looks good, but until then, I'm going to be playing games I already have, having fun, and not caring much about it.

Edited April 30, 2022 by razark

[snkiz]

4 hours ago, Vl3d said:

I'm a customer of Private Division, I've bought KSP1 + 2 DLC. I'm also a guaranteed pre-release customer willing to spend $60 on KSP2. Besides this, I've invested time, energy and emotions in this franchise. I am part of this community.

This is an inappropriate business attitude. Even potential customers deserve respect and answers about future products.

Look at how Blizzard is communicating about their new WOW expansion, one year before release.

Transparency is not a bad thing. No one is forcing them to lie or promise things they cannot deliver. We just want to know more things about the game. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

8 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Gaming: The only market where informed consumers are looked and beaten down by... other consumers who wish to not be informed.

 

[snip] Gaming, the only industry where people think this is acceptable behaviour. Your SpaceX argument rings false as well. They are building a rocket in a field. 99% of the footage you are seeing is not official. And they are building rockets in a field, not a game. Are  you a future spaceX customer? SpaceX, intercept, gm, subaru. Nobody owes anything when comes to upcoming products. You should be grateful we get any behind the scenes information. The only reason you know anything about ksp 2 is they pulled the trigger prematurely, then everything changed, and then covid. Seriously have a good look at the dev time on AAA of this scale, and how my times it's been botched on release due to that very pressure to release. The date still hasn't slipped, the devs seem enthusiastic. These videos, are all coordinated marketing, dealing with poor choices in the beginning and a demanding community. I seriously hope none of the people involved in see this vitriol.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[Vl3d]

5 minutes ago, razark said:

I guess I just don't see the big deal about waiting to find out about a game.  I'll buy it when it releases if it looks good, but until then, I'm going to be playing games I already have, having fun, and not caring much about it.

Well I do care about it. I've been waiting for it to be released in 2020. Then 2021. Now it's almost the middle of 2022 and I still have to read / watch interviews from 2-3 years ago to answer forum questions about it.