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Chang'e 5 - The attempt to collect samples from the Moon and bring them back to Earth.

pmborg

By pmborg
in Science & Spaceflight

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magnemoe

magnemoe

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, wumpus said:

It seems unbelievably complicated just for a return sample.  I suspect they are practicing for a real Apollo.  Or maybe they wanted much more rocks than the  Soviet mission and had to go full Apollo to maximize what could fit in the rocket.  And perhaps I shouldn't say "Apollo", but "Saturn V" as there was a "direct ascent" plan and some work on designing Nova rockets (as well as Saturn C-8) to do that.  They would have been huge and even more expensive and risky.  But humans (and life support) are a fixed size: you can scale a sample return however you want.  But if you want to maximize your samples while sticking to your Long March booster, then Apollo it is.

Or an Mars sample return. As Apollo was manned the astronauts could abort the docking and even switch to manual docking. 
On an Mars sample return the entire docking including aborts has to be totally automated. 

Now docking in moon orbit let you make the accent stage lighter, as I understand they plan to return 2 kg of samples. 
Yes the docking hardware also weight something but if bulk is done by the orbital craft they probably save plenty and on Mars they need to dock. 

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JoeSchmuckatelli

JoeSchmuckatelli

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2 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Or an Mars sample return. As Apollo was manned the astronauts could abort the docking and even switch to manual docking. 
On an Mars sample return the entire docking including aborts has to be totally automated. 

Now docking in moon orbit let you make the accent stage lighter, as I understand they plan to return 2 kg of samples. 
Yes the docking hardware also weight something but if bulk is done by the orbital craft they probably save plenty and on Mars they need to dock. 

From the animation they provided - how are they going to get 2kg?  It looks like they plan to vacuum stuff, not scoop.

 

Whatever- the main thing is they stuck a landing.  Props for that.  If they succeed in liftoff, docking and return; that's the miracle of modern engineering.  

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kerbiloid

kerbiloid

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Superfluous J said:
7 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Well... if they do a full Apollo, would that mean the Chinese beat the Soviets in the Space Race?

I believe that would put them in the venerable position of being "first loser."

No, it would put the Chinese in the glorious position of "the second who was spending his money on three lunar tourists per 60 kg of lunar ground instead of sending a heavier lunokhod with a drill and a rocket".
Because afaik there was only one geologist on the Moon, just for several hours. Others were pilots with shovels.

***

Waiting for the lunar samples shared among foreign labs to ensure it's ok with them.

Though the swirling clouds of dust on landing in Change-5 Moon Lander Mission Live Livestream HD  and animation together with still images in other videos look nice.

The dusty triangle-shaped formation between the craters is probably selected for landing intentionally, and if so, the landing accuracy is just perfect. Nice texture.

(Though can't get why aim in the dust which can cover pits and stones when there are dustless textures places around). An Easter egg biome?

Edited by kerbiloid
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wumpus

wumpus

Posted
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16 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Not if it increases the cost by 1% but the payoff buy 100%.

Note I don't know the actual values there. I was being conservative they're probably more skewed.

While this is true, the chance of failure goes up as you add complexity.  There's a far greater chance of 0kg returned, and getting that back up to a simple mission's chances is expensive/impossible.  There's a reason they didn't livestream the landing.

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Meecrob

Meecrob

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Posted

Yeah, but the point isn't the sample return. they were already sending a probe to the moon and have it return, the sample is just a bonus. As stated above, its a "prototype" for a crewed landing.

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YNM

YNM

Posted
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3 hours ago, 050644zf said:

wide-angle image of sampling area where you can see the traces of sampling.

Is it that darker patch on the right ? How much sample did they took ?

Wonder if there's a way to make the image more like a normal pano...

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pmborg

pmborg

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8 minutes ago, YNM said:

Is it that darker patch on the right ? How much sample did they took ?

Wonder if there's a way to make the image more like a normal pano...

The lander collected about 2 kg (4.4 lb) of samples from 2 m (6 ft 7 in) below the surface and placed them in an attached ascent vehicle that was launched into lunar orbit on 3 December, 2020

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YNM

YNM

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16 minutes ago, pmborg said:

2 kg (4.4 lb) of samples from 2 m (6 ft 7 in) below the surface

Ah, so I presume like a tubular soil sample, and what was left was more from the hole collapsing again.

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