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Are the features of 1.11 worth the wait for the mods to catch up, or is 1.10 "good enough"?


SpacedInvader
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Lately I've gotten the bug to fire up a new career after a long time away (2-3 years), so naturally, I downloaded the most updated version of the game from squad and set about installing all of my favorite mods. The problem that I've noticed however, is that many of them haven't been updated to 1.11 and may not for several months since their authors don't really prioritize the updates anymore. Now I know better than to start pestering the modders about updates, but in lieu of that, I find myself wondering if the better course of action might not be just to roll back to the previous version of the game. The question is though, are the features introduced in 1.11 really worth the wait, or can they for the most part be found in other mods (KIS, KAS, Konstruction, etc) making the update less important?

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I'm waiting, but the bug in 1.10 that causes fuel transfers to freeze/fail is really beginning to annoy me.  Not sure if the bugs in 1.11 are more of less annoying though.

As for mod features, KIS and KAS are still mandatory for me since I use fuel lines and tubes a lot and they aren't part of the construction features in the new version of KSP.

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5 minutes ago, overkill13 said:

but the bug in 1.10 that causes fuel transfers to freeze/fail is really beginning to annoy me

That was my reason to try out 1.11.0, very very annoying bug, yes. But after a few hours, I did revert to 1.10.1, this fuel bug can be handled, there are workarounds. Not pretty, but I can live with that.

5 minutes ago, overkill13 said:

KIS and KAS are still mandatory for me since I use fuel lines and tubes a lot

How else could I, amongst other stuff, properly refuel my Rovers (they're running of fuel cells)? :) 

Edited by VoidSquid
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2 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

Personally, for me, the question is, what weights more, the new features, or the newly introduced bugs?

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/projects/ksp/issues

Some of the 1.10.1 bugs seem like they aren't so great either? For example, I just bought Breaking Ground so I expect to use surface science experiments, but apparently they're broken in 1.10.1...

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15 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

Working fine for me in 1.10.1, seem to be broken in 1.11.0 for some players from what I've read.

Hmm, I guess it could be an isolated case or have something to do with other mods, though if thats the case, I might have an issue because I generally run with more than 100 mods.

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I'm pragmatic on the issue. I do not update my savegames to major versions - my main savegame is on 1.7.3.

The problem is not (only) KSP,  but the very add'ons themselves. As KSP changes something important, the usual "fix" is to bluntly deprecate things or remove features and call it a day, and this (at least for me) was savaging my savegames way harsher than the KSP changes and bugs.

KSP bugs are anoying, no doubt. But usually work arounds as World Stabiliser and KSP Recall square things in a few weeks. And the bugs are, eventually tackled down.

But I'm still to see some of the most used add'ons (at least, by me) to fix things once they are deprecated or removed...

Edited by Lisias
Entertaining grammars made less entertaining...
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2 minutes ago, Lisias said:

bluntly deprecate things or remove features

You mean something in particular here?

One change that really bugged me was "Adjust Kerbal ladder navigation to remove sliding and provide better automatic transition between ladders" in 1.9. Since then, Kerbals are always automatically oriented with their head pointing to the ladder top. I had used ladders pointing with their ends to each other to gap, for example, an ISRU unit. Doesn't work anymore, nowadays I have to put a ladder in the middle of the ISRU to allow my Kerbals to walk down form the pod to the surface.

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4 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

You mean something in particular here?

Other than parts being removed because the newest KSP has a temporary bug on them (and that I managed to cook a "fix" in 2 hours, by the way), or code being removed to make things compile and then completely abandoned, nope. :sticktongue:

 

4 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

One change that really bugged me was "Adjust Kerbal ladder navigation to remove sliding and provide better automatic transition between ladders" in 1.9. Since then, Kerbals are always automatically oriented with their head pointing to the ladder top. I had used ladders pointing with their ends to each other to gap, for example, an ISRU unit. Doesn't work anymore, nowadays I have to put a ladder in the middle of the ISRU to allow my Kerbals to walk down form the pod to the surface.

The trick is to fool the collider's algorithm. It's, well, tricky - the Kerbal's behaviour is a bit hilarious sometimes, but it worked for me.

As you reach the end of the collider, stop the climbing/descent, and then do little taps on the W/S key. Pretty little spaced taps until you reach the next collider - you will need to find the best position for the ladders, too far or too near and I didn't managed to do the trick without the Kerbal doing mary-go-rounds.

I didn't managed to descent with heads up, at the bottom of the last ladder I had to "let go" and, well... Kerbals are used to hit the ground, anyway.

But on climbing the ladder, I managed to keep with the heads up all the way - but not always.

The trick is to position the colliders in the right place, and do pretty little taps with the keys until you manage to switch colliders the way you want.

I did kinda a visualtutorial here, if you want to "see" the trick working.

Spoiler

screenshot12.jpg

screenshot16.jpg

screenshot18.jpg

 

Edited by Lisias
Tyops! But you already know it.
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13 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

Thanks for the tips, @Lisias!

Welcome! :)

 

13 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

It's kind of absurd that we, the players, have to work around an "improvement", isn't it?

Yes and no... Publishing prototypes is a viable model of development, when did right. Things get hairy when you sell the prototype as a final product (see Cyberpunk). I can live pretty fine with KSP 1.10 being the stable product and KSP 1.11 the development product on early beta (and so bug fixes would be backported to 1.10.2 and published before being applied to 1.11.1, that would also fix the 1.11 specific bugs).

What I'm seeing on KSP is something different : something as a "deadline driven development model". They have a deadline to meet some business demand, and quality and stability is just not a requirement. It's like the customers of KSP aren't us, players, but someone else - you know, someone must be paying the bills around here, and apparently we are not that guy.

The one with the money call the shots. We are the ones calling the shots? So we are not the guys paying the bills here - and so, we are not the customer (what, sometimes, makes me wonder if we are the product, after all).

Edited by Lisias
Hit "Save" too soon.
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The problem I end up having is that I always seem to land back on KSP after an update, but before the hotfixes are in place and before some of my "must have" mods are updated. I've thought about rolling back to 1.10.1 for this time around, but my situation is actually a little worse because one of my "must have" mods is actually not going to be compatible with 1.10.1 thanks to RoverDude moving his mods to the new inventory system and having not released a 1.10.1 version of his MKS system. He's said that the current version "should" work with 1.10.1, but its not supported and won't be supported going forward due to the change. So I'm stuck once again waiting between patches and hotfixes and what usually happens here, and the main reason its been so long since I've actually played the game, is that I'll get distracted playing another game that consumes hundreds of hours of my time and I'll forget about KSP for another 6-12 months...

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On 1/7/2021 at 7:10 PM, SpacedInvader said:

The problem that I've noticed however, is that many of them haven't been updated to 1.11 and may not for several months since their authors don't really prioritize the updates anymore.

Just out of curiosity, have you actually tried the mods and verified that they don't work anymore in 1.11?  Just because KSP updated doesn't automatically mean that all mods need to release an update, too.

1.11 added some new features to the game, but it wasn't especially "disruptive"-- didn't really dink around with the existing features, so I would expect most mods that work in 1.10 to just continue working fine in 1.11.  I'm the author of a couple dozen mods myself, and all of them continued working without a hiccup when KSP 1.11 arrived.  I went to SpaceDock and marked them all as 1.11 compatible, but I didn't need to release any actual updates to make them keep working.

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1 hour ago, Snark said:

Just out of curiosity, have you actually tried the mods and verified that they don't work anymore in 1.11?  Just because KSP updated doesn't automatically mean that all mods need to release an update, too.

1.11 added some new features to the game, but it wasn't especially "disruptive"-- didn't really dink around with the existing features, so I would expect most mods that work in 1.10 to just continue working fine in 1.11.  I'm the author of a couple dozen mods myself, and all of them continued working without a hiccup when KSP 1.11 arrived.  I went to SpaceDock and marked them all as 1.11 compatible, but I didn't need to release any actual updates to make them keep working.

RealChute is automatically disabled until Chris updates it for 1.11 which hasn't happened yet. That alone would be enough as its a must-have for me. I'll admit I haven't bothered to check the other major warning mod which is Real Fuels as it wouldn't make much difference at this point if it did work since Real Chute isn't available yet. There are quite a few others that aren't updated, but "seem" to work for others such as Kerbal Construction Time, but again, without the core must-haves available, it doesn't make much sense to spend time testing others.

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