impossible to carry a ground experiment and a EVA pack at the same time ?

[Marachdrifter]

i am doing something wrong, or with the update 1.11, it's now impossible for a kerbal to take a ground experiment in his hands to deploy it if it has a eva pack ?

That's utterly stupid, because you have to store the eva pack before grabbing the experiments and if like me you never put ladders on ships for Minimus, because it's actually easier to use the jetpack than walking, you either cannot grab the experiments in storage, or you get stranded on Minimus because the kerbal have no eva pack on him, is on the ground, and nobody can bring one to him, because two eva pack weight too much for a single kerbal to carry...

[jimmymcgoochie]

I haven’t done all that much in 1.11 but from what I remember a Kerbal should be able to carry the EVA pack and a surface experiment at the same time. Is it a lack of carry mass or volume that’s stopping you?

[Marachdrifter]

4 hours ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

I haven’t done all that much in 1.11 but from what I remember a Kerbal should be able to carry the EVA pack and a surface experiment at the same time. Is it a lack of carry mass or volume that’s stopping you?

It's apparently both

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Marachdrifter

[VoidSquid]

I'd report this issue here if I were you https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/projects/ksp/issues

[Fierce Wolf]

It's not a bug...just poor planning!

[VoidSquid]

Call it what you want, a bug, an oversight, poor planning, ...

Fact of the matter is, before 1.11 a Kerbal had a jet pack and chute as part of their gear, and could carry a part of a surface experiment. Since 1.11, the Kerbal and the personal gear have been split in separate entities, sum of the three masses the same as before 1.11.

Long story short: worked before 1.11, doesn't work since. I call that broken or a bug.

Edited January 20, 2021 by VoidSquid

[Marachdrifter]

51 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

I'd report this issue here if I were you https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/projects/ksp/issues

good idea, i did that

[vv3k70r]

19 hours ago, Marachdrifter said:

That's utterly stupid, because you have to store the eva pack before grabbing the experiments and if like me you never put ladders on ships for Minimus, because it's actually easier to use the jetpack than walking, you either cannot grab the experiments in storage

Make storage in reach. Why not fall Your rocket on Minmus? You can set it radial out back just with hair drayer there.

4 hours ago, Marachdrifter said:

It's apparently both

Reasonable - it shuold be quite impractical to carry. But...

Try to switch something You have in inventory against experiment station. I remember it work for me by accident - I got both value red, by I could carry that.

It works for sure when You pick it up from ground.

I just not need thissolution - I build vessels where cargo is accesible.

4 hours ago, Fierce Wolf said:

It's not a bug...just poor planning!

True!

3 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

Long story short: worked before 1.11, doesn't work since. I call that broken or a bug.

Blasphemy! It fix abuse! They are not camels to carry that amount of stuff.

Poor Kerbals.

I wonder why they didnt get exosuits. We have them in factories already (pasive on springs are more afordable then cars) but future tech and rocket science do not cooperate very well.

Edited January 20, 2021 by vv3k70r

[VoidSquid]

Yeah. Whatever.

I hope this is meant just as a friendly banter.

Edited January 20, 2021 by VoidSquid

[Marachdrifter]

16 minutes ago, vv3k70r said:

Make storage in reach. Why not fall Your rocket on Minmus? You can set it radial out back just with hair drayer there.

 

yeah i did just that, i tipped the rocket over to reach for the cargo bay from the ground.

i'm all for weight and volume restriction so that they dont become camels, but you dont desing your ground experiment to heavy to carry when it's a necessity to carry them... 

anyway, until they fix that, i will adapt my rockets next time.

[VoidSquid]

I'm out of here.

[Snark]

6 hours ago, Marachdrifter said:

good idea, i did that

Care to post a link to the reported issue, for those of us who may be interested to follow along? 

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, VoidSquid said:

I'm out of here.

Ok? Not sure what this was supposed to achieve.

[Superfluous J]

I don't think this is a bug. You can "get around" it by merely swapping the experiment for the jet pack (try to place the one on the other in your inventory) and then place the jet pack in the storage spot you got the experiment from. Then once you placed the experiment down, take the jet pack again.

I think it's reasonable to not have the jet pack available as a 100% a requirement in your mission plan when designing a mission that is 100%guaranteed to land.

7 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

Long story short: worked before 1.11, doesn't work since. I call that broken or a bug.

Aerobraking straight down at any reasonably achievable speed (think 10km/s) worked before 1.0 so does that mean the more realistic atmosphere introduced in 1.0 is a bug?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Superfluous J

[Waxing_Kibbous]

Is this dependent on environment though? It'd make sense that a Kerbal could carry more on low-G bodies.

[vv3k70r]

3 hours ago, Marachdrifter said:

i'm all for weight and volume restriction so that they dont become camels, but you dont desing your ground experiment to heavy to carry when it's a necessity to carry them... 

Of course You do. Only reason why we think we not is that - we live on highest gravity solid rock around. We evolved very strong - it changes our perspective. If we evolve stronger because of gravity it would be hard to send anything to space. Back to Kerbals - on Eve laders are issue. Think Your vessel throu and test it. Extensivly.

Mun and Minmus is forgiving. Heavier bodies not - if You fall Your rocket You are grounded.

You lucky to encouter this issue on Minmus. Now You now that You need a vessel that have cargo in reach from ground. Propably one that will follow brave Kerbals on the ground to awoid lot of walking.

22 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

Then once you placed the experiment down, take the jet pack again.

If it is in reach.

23 minutes ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

Is this dependent on environment though? It'd make sense that a Kerbal could carry more on low-G bodies.

They do and they jump high. But it is not a Super Mario to control movement in flight.

Volume of the things is conected to gravity, but You need slightly diferent magnitude of gravity to make thing a bit denser. And propably not usefull.

It would be hard to carry tv and using jetpack.

[Superfluous J]

 

2 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

 

3 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Then once you placed the experiment down, take the jet pack again.

If it is in reach.

Which it will be as you were standing there when you swapped the experiment with it originally.

Unless you put your jet pack away and then jumped down the 7+ meters to the ground with the experiment station in which case this situation is totally on you.

And I also solved it in 3 seconds because on any body you're likely to learn this lesson, you have about a 20 meter vertical jump when unencumbered. So just right click the storage container, jump, and as you pass by grab the eva pack.

3 hours ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

Is this dependent on environment though? It'd make sense that a Kerbal could carry more on low-G bodies.

I don't think it is, but that's slightly hidden by the fact that in every case I can think of the limit was volume, either as well as or instead of mass.

[Marachdrifter]

3 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

Of course You do. Only reason why we think we not is that - we live on highest gravity solid rock around. We evolved very strong - it changes our perspective. If we evolve stronger because of gravity it would be hard to send anything to space. Back to Kerbals - on Eve laders are issue. Think Your vessel throu and test it. Extensivly.

Mun and Minmus is forgiving. Heavier bodies not - if You fall Your rocket You are grounded.

You lucky to encouter this issue on Minmus. Now You now that You need a vessel that have cargo in reach from ground. Propably one that will follow brave Kerbals on the ground to awoid lot of walking.

But on an heavier bodies i would not have relied on EVA pack to climb on the rocket. but on minimum it's way quicker to use the EVA suit from point A to point B. if it had been a mission on Duna, i would have prepared something else.

5 hours ago, Snark said:

Care to post a link to the reported issue, for those of us who may be interested to follow along? 

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/27096

1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

 

Which it will be as you were standing there when you swapped the experiment with it originally.

Unless you put your jet pack away and then jumped down the 7+ meters to the ground with the experiment station in which case this situation is totally on you.

And I also solved it in 3 seconds because on any body you're likely to learn this lesson, you have about a 20 meter vertical jump when unencumbered. So just right click the storage container, jump, and as you pass by grab the eva pack.

in my case the trouble was that the stroage is at the top of the rocket, there's a ladder to go to the base, but there's a bigger part at the bottom, and since it was only a few meters to the ground, there was no ladder for the last part. i couldnt just jump straight because of the larger base, i couldnt grab anything, and the storage goes too fast to grab the part while jumping.

 

Actually, if they fix the bug that an item cannot be put on the ground in EVA building mode, there would be a logical and easy work around. get your engineer to unload the experiments on the ground and the your scientist can grab them on the ground to deploy them... 

[Superfluous J]

48 minutes ago, Marachdrifter said:

Actually, if they fix the bug that an item cannot be put on the ground in EVA building mode, there would be a logical and easy work around. get your engineer to unload the experiments on the ground and the your scientist can grab them on the ground to deploy them... 

I don't know about the science experiments or jet packs, but other items can be dropped in EVA construction mode. I do it all the time in orbit (though I'll admit I've not done it while landed I can't see them coding it to not work in that case alone)

And in any case I'd personally chalk that up to a learning experience. Make sure you have your storage reachable from the ground on your next mission, just like you make sure you have ladders after your first Eve mission failed after you planted the flag (at least, mine did )

Also, assuming your ladder is less than 7m from the ground you could have one Kerbal on the ladder going up and down, passing items from the storage container to the Kerbal on the ground.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Superfluous J

[Marachdrifter]

54 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

I don't know about the science experiments or jet packs, but other items can be dropped in EVA construction mode. I do it all the time in orbit (though I'll admit I've not done it while landed I can't see them coding it to not work in that case alone)

it's a knowned and already reported bug. You can drop on the ground items (eva packs, eva fuel, parachute, eva experiment kit, etc), and ground experiment. but once on the ground you cannot pick them up. basically the game deal with anything placed on the ground in EVA construction mode like a rocket part, that cannot get pick up by a kerbal even if you have the space and weight left in your personal inventory

[Superfluous J]

21 minutes ago, Marachdrifter said:

basically the game deal with anything placed on the ground in EVA construction mode like a rocket part, that cannot get pick up by a kerbal even if you have the space and weight left in your personal inventory

Aha I didn't know that part. I've never dropped something and then tried to put it in my inventory, only dropped it and then attached it to a ship later. Next time I'm in the game I'll try it for myself so I can get a feel for the problem.

[vv3k70r]

5 hours ago, Marachdrifter said:

But on an heavier bodies i would not have relied on EVA pack to climb on the rocket.

You missed that You are about to carry more. Both weight and volume.

See in KIS/KAS - if You load inventory with pipelines You cannot fly jetpack on da Mun - it gives You just a slower descent.

[KerikBalm]

7 hours ago, Marachdrifter said:

basically the game deal with anything placed on the ground in EVA construction mode like a rocket part, that cannot get pick up by a kerbal even if you have the space and weight left in your personal inventory

Wait, if you put something (anything?!) down, you can't pick it up again?

[RealKerbal3x]

4 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Wait, if you put something (anything?!) down, you can't pick it up again?

No, you can pick things up.

[Mikenike]

22 hours ago, VoidSquid said:

Fact of the matter is, before 1.11 a Kerbal had a jet pack and chute as part of their gear, and could carry a part of a surface experiment. Since 1.11, the Kerbal and the personal gear have been split in separate entities, sum of the three masses the same as before 1.11.

Long story short: worked before 1.11, doesn't work since. I call that broken or a bug.

Yeah, its one of the things I disliked about the update.