Jump to content

KSP 2 Should be Made for Consoles ASAP


PlutoISaPlanet
 Share

Recommended Posts

17 hours ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

and with the next gen consoles being pc's

So has the current (past?) generation, just with severely underpowered CPUs. But that hasn't changed, so really, there's absolutely nothing different with next (current?) generation.

Come to think of it, the only XBox that was ever not just a cheap PC was the 360. That one was a Mac. (Trust me, that joke would have been funny fifteen years ago.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, K^2 said:

So has the current (past?) generation, just with severely underpowered CPUs. But that hasn't changed, so really, there's absolutely nothing different with next (current?) generation.

Come to think of it, the only XBox that was ever not just a cheap PC was the 360. That one was a Mac. (Trust me, that joke would have been funny fifteen years ago.)

The PS5 and Xbox one X are packing Ryzen, they're sooooo much better than the last generation on the CPU front.

They might not be clocked high, but it's still better than the last generation which had garbage IPC and poor clocks.

That being said, I'd still take a PC over either of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

The PS5 and Xbox one X are packing Ryzen, they're sooooo much better than the last generation on the CPU front.

They might not be clocked high, but it's still better than the last generation which had garbage IPC and poor clocks.

Clocks aren't even half the story. The biggest bottleneck was cache performance. And while I haven't had hands-on with next gen yet, it sounds from specs like it might be a similar kind of story: CPU that's technically powerful enough to feed your GPU pipe from purely compute perspective, but starts to stutter the moment you are trying to do anything fancy.

And, I mean, yeah, it's a definitely an improvement over Jaguars of the PS4/XBOne, but so was the Evolved Jaguar on PS4 Pro/XBOne X. Remember when these just came out, and it looked like it solved all the problems, because the numbers were better across the board and games built for the original systems ran pretty well on these? That didn't last long, though, as everyone expected better graphics on updated versions as well, and we quickly went back to the same problems we've always had. Worst of all, again, compared to compute capabilities, cache performance lagged dramatically. Meaning your pipeline is constantly starved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, K^2 said:

Clocks aren't even half the story. The biggest bottleneck was cache performance. And while I haven't had hands-on with next gen yet, it sounds from specs like it might be a similar kind of story: CPU that's technically powerful enough to feed your GPU pipe from purely compute perspective, but starts to stutter the moment you are trying to do anything fancy.

And, I mean, yeah, it's a definitely an improvement over Jaguars of the PS4/XBOne, but so was the Evolved Jaguar on PS4 Pro/XBOne X. Remember when these just came out, and it looked like it solved all the problems, because the numbers were better across the board and games built for the original systems ran pretty well on these? That didn't last long, though, as everyone expected better graphics on updated versions as well, and we quickly went back to the same problems we've always had. Worst of all, again, compared to compute capabilities, cache performance lagged dramatically. Meaning your pipeline is constantly starved.

Well they also went from (At least with the PS4 Pro) from a Radeon HD 7750 equivalent GPU core in the base PS4 to a GPU core resembling a Radeon RX 480, and kept the same CPU just with slightly higher clocks.

And the result was the same as if you made a similar PC, the maximum frame times improved (But no where near the maximum improvement they could've achieved with better CPU). But the Minimum frame-times were exceptionally poor, and rarely could the console hit a stable 60 FPS even at 1080p.

That's one of the major reasons they decided to chase resolution instead, when you have such a unbalanced system like that where the CPU just isn't capable of feeding the GPU rapidly but the GPU has plenty of horsepower on tap. Then cranking the resolution makes sense, shifting the bottleneck more to the GPU than CPU.

But i do recall Jaguar having poor Cashe performance, and AMD's architecture overall at that time suffering from poor cashe hit to miss ratios and absolutely disgraceful branch prediction performance (This might be one of the areas that was a Regression from the old Thubans, but I'm not 100% on that).

If they go for 1080P or 1440P, then i think the PS5 and Xbox Series X will be able to hold decent frame rates and high graphics settings. 4K with checkerboard rendering might even be an option on lesser titles, but if they try to do 120FPS with high resolution....

Well they will hit hard limits at that point, and this is all assuming purely rasterized scenes. It's pretty clear ATM that they don't have the horsepower for Ray-Tracing on anywhere near the scale marketing has sold people on.

It's a shame really, because the PS5 and Xbox Series X are a legitimate leap over the previous consoles. But i think a large portion of people are going to be very disappointed with them regardless when they realize they aren't magic boxes that can do 4K Raytracing at Ultra settings with the framerate locked at 60FPS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the conversation shifted to specs, ok!

I do want to just chime in and say that a lot of people play console because they do not understand PC's (somewhat me). To everyone who does, how do you think KSP 2 would run on a PC woth good specs and a X Box Series X? How long would it take to port. Just want to see if we can relate the conversation somewhat to those questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

To everyone who does, how do you think KSP 2 would run on a PC woth good specs and a X Box Series X? How long would it take to port. Just want to see if we can relate the conversation somewhat to those questions.

A good PC will be head and shoulders above consoles in terms of CPU performance, so you'll always have better experience in KSP or KSP2 on decent gaming PC vs consoles. Whether that gets in the way of you having a good time on consoles depends entirely on what kind of things you like to build and how far Intercept will be able to push optimizations. If Intercept manages to ship with all the optimizations they've been promising, you'll have to build something rather huge before you'll see significant performance drop on a next gen console. Likewise, you might have to pay a bit more attention to debris on a console to avoid a lot of orbiting junk, whereas on PC you might not care nearly as much.

And this time they are building both PC and console versions in house from the start. So there shouldn't be a requirement to port the game or any updates. We'll probably still see updates for the PC version roll out first, but with consoles close behind. I will be very surprised if the lag is ever longer than a couple of months, and in most cases, it will be closer to a couple of weeks if Intercept goes with the same rollout strategies as most studios.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

I guess the conversation shifted to specs, ok!

I do want to just chime in and say that a lot of people play console because they do not understand PC's (somewhat me). To everyone who does, how do you think KSP 2 would run on a PC woth good specs and a X Box Series X? How long would it take to port. Just want to see if we can relate the conversation somewhat to those questions.

Sorry, that's my fault. I was elaborating on the PS4 and PS4 pro's specs and why they might have decided to push pixels at the cost of all else.

But IF you can find a Xbox Series X at MSRP, don't mistake me. It's going to be incredibly hard to beat performance wise at that price point for at least the next 2 years, so KSP2 will probably run just fine on it. Intercept is basically using DX11 features, so no worries about Ray Tracing sapping away performance or the like. The CPU in the Series X is plenty strong, so it should handle the Physics Calculations much better than the previous generation consoles.

Basically, unless they absolutely botch the port. It will run fine.

But you're giving up mod support, and after 2 years the technology in even a mid-range PC will begin to approach the stuff inside the Series X and PS5. And unlike that PC, you won't be able to upgrade your console.

So it's your choice, and the PS5 and Xbox Series X are fine machines in the end. I'd personally take a less performant PC than either of those consoles currently, because it's unlikely you'll find them at or even near MSRP right now. Mods for KSP are huge, and KSP2 looks to be making every move towards allowing modders to go even crazier with their endeavors than KSP ever did. And i don't have to pay to use the Internet i already pay my ISP to use with a PC (60 USD/Year over 3-6 years quickly equalizes the cost differences between Console and PC).

But Consoles are basically plug and play, and the Xbox Series X has some incredible backwards compatibility. So if you don't want to hassle, and had a back catalog of Xbox One games you wanted to play then it's not a bad deal at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, K^2 said:

A good PC will be head and shoulders above consoles in terms of CPU performance, so you'll always have better experience in KSP or KSP2 on decent gaming PC vs consoles. Whether that gets in the way of you having a good time on consoles depends entirely on what kind of things you like to build and how far Intercept will be able to push optimizations. If Intercept manages to ship with all the optimizations they've been promising, you'll have to build something rather huge before you'll see significant performance drop on a next gen console. Likewise, you might have to pay a bit more attention to debris on a console to avoid a lot of orbiting junk, whereas on PC you might not care nearly as much.

And this time they are building both PC and console versions in house from the start. So there shouldn't be a requirement to port the game or any updates. We'll probably still see updates for the PC version roll out first, but with consoles close behind. I will be very surprised if the lag is ever longer than a couple of months, and in most cases, it will be closer to a couple of weeks if Intercept goes with the same rollout strategies as most studios.

 

2 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Sorry, that's my fault. I was elaborating on the PS4 and PS4 pro's specs and why they might have decided to push pixels at the cost of all else.

But IF you can find a Xbox Series X at MSRP, don't mistake me. It's going to be incredibly hard to beat performance wise at that price point for at least the next 2 years, so KSP2 will probably run just fine on it. Intercept is basically using DX11 features, so no worries about Ray Tracing sapping away performance or the like. The CPU in the Series X is plenty strong, so it should handle the Physics Calculations much better than the previous generation consoles.

Basically, unless they absolutely botch the port. It will run fine.

But you're giving up mod support, and after 2 years the technology in even a mid-range PC will begin to approach the stuff inside the Series X and PS5. And unlike that PC, you won't be able to upgrade your console.

So it's your choice, and the PS5 and Xbox Series X are fine machines in the end. I'd personally take a less performant PC than either of those consoles currently, because it's unlikely you'll find them at or even near MSRP right now. Mods for KSP are huge, and KSP2 looks to be making every move towards allowing modders to go even crazier with their endeavors than KSP ever did. And i don't have to pay to use the Internet i already pay my ISP to use with a PC (60 USD/Year over 3-6 years quickly equalizes the cost differences between Console and PC).

But Consoles are basically plug and play, and the Xbox Series X has some incredible backwards compatibility. So if you don't want to hassle, and had a back catalog of Xbox One games you wanted to play then it's not a bad deal at all. 

I think both of you are pretty right!

I know they said they are developing console versions, but they will come "later". I hope when ksp2 makes its console debut more people will be able to play it. Many people dont have PC's (or powerfull PC's) that will be able to run the game (people also dont have ps5 or x). Anyways, I just wanted to hear your good opinions so thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to bring another point to this convo:

Microsoft (And quite possibly Sony too) require you to have a pass in order to play multiplayer. That's one of the most anticipated features, So I would assume people would turn to PC. Less reason to release both at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

The majority of KSP players are on PC.

I don't think that the entire game should be catered toa small portion of the player base that will significantly reduce the potential elsewhere.

I agree, for any console players I would recommend what I did in the past year to boost up my computer stats, go get a job or do lawnmowing or something else. I did stuff like this and purchased a ton of upgrades on my computer. I recommend doing this now! KSP doesn't come out for at least another year, this is the perfect opportunity to save up money

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

The majority of KSP players are on PC.

I don't think that the entire game should be catered toa small portion of the player base that will significantly reduce the potential elsewhere.

100%

It would be a huge disappointment if the game is designed for a simultaneous release with consoles. It would significantly reduce the scope of possibilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/7/2021 at 6:11 AM, PlutoISaPlanet said:

Many of us are console players, and with the next gen consoles being pc's we should not have to wait for KSP 2. The game looks amazing and when it comes out I do not want to wait years to play on console. 

Yes. I wish this too. I’m a fellow console player.

On 2/7/2021 at 6:18 AM, Master39 said:

Even in the best case scenario console stores have longer procedures to follow to publish and update games, when you see concurrent releases they're actually delaying it for PC.

Yes. This is how unfortunate. Games have to go through many procedure like legal documents and other things.

On 2/7/2021 at 7:08 AM, MechBFP said:

Like any modern game I am about 99.9% sure they will release PC and console versions at the same time. KSP 1 is different because it was never designed to be sold on consoles until waaaay later. 

Yes. This is true.

21 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

The majority of KSP players are on PC.

I don't think that the entire game should be catered toa small portion of the player base that will significantly reduce the potential elsewhere.

I agree with @Spaceman.Spiff.

9 hours ago, Hypercore said:

Just to bring another point to this convo:

Microsoft (And quite possibly Sony too) require you to have a pass in order to play multiplayer. That's one of the most anticipated features, So I would assume people would turn to PC. Less reason to release both at the same time.

I don’t know about Microsoft, but Sony requires you to have a PlayStation account

9 hours ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

I agree, for any console players I would recommend what I did in the past year to boost up my computer stats, go get a job or do lawnmowing or something else. I did stuff like this and purchased a ton of upgrades on my computer. I recommend doing this now! KSP doesn't come out for at least another year, this is the perfect opportunity to save up money

Yes it is! What a great way to look to the positives!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/7/2021 at 8:18 AM, Master39 said:

Even in the best case scenario console stores have longer procedures to follow to publish and update games, when you see concurrent releases they're actually delaying it for PC.

Yes, or your like Activision Blizard and you have the ability to have the game ported over and optimized in no time flat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

I don’t know about Microsoft, but Sony requires you to have a PlayStation account

Quote

PlayStation Plus is a requirement for PS4 and PS5 gamers to play each other online. Only some free-to-play games are exempt

Quote

Microsoft's Xbox Live Gold service is required to play multiplayer games online.

I would say I got enough evidence. If console players want to play multiplayer, they need to pay either $60 a year for either the XBox Live Gold or Playstation Plus. I bet that many won't go for console after this, since a year of multiplayer cost as much as the game itself.

Edited by Hypercore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hypercore said:

I would say I got enough evidence. If console players want to play multiplayer, they need to pay either $60 a year for either the XBox Live Gold or Playstation Plus. I bet that many won't go for console after this, since a year of multiplayer cost as much as the game itself.

I get the majority of people in the forums are PC players, but to think that Take 2 is going to pass on the console market seems somewhat unrealistic (to me). By 2022 the new consoles will be established, maybe someone else can elaborate I just do not understand the veiwpoint.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

I get the majority of people in the forums are PC players, but to think that Take 2 is going to pass on the console market seems somewhat unrealistic (to me). By 2022 the new consoles will be established, maybe someone else can elaborate I just do not understand the veiwpoint.

There will definitely be a market, but console players will either have to pay up or not use multiplayer is what I'm saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

I get the majority of people in the forums are PC players, but to think that Take 2 is going to pass on the console market seems somewhat unrealistic (to me). By 2022 the new consoles will be established, maybe someone else can elaborate I just do not understand the veiwpoint.

It all boils down to the fact that most PC players can't understand why people put up with playing games with old/underpowered hardware that you can't upgrade if you even wanted to, or the cost of the consoles themselves, or the limitations placed on what you can actually do with it, or all the extra fees required for online play, or the extra cost for the same games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

It all boils down to the fact that most PC players can't understand why people put up with playing games with old/underpowered hardware that you can't upgrade if you even wanted to, or the cost of the consoles themselves, or the limitations placed on what you can actually do with it, or all the extra fees required for online play, or the extra cost for the same games.

Ik but all I mean is that the console market is big, and it exist. To ignore it (or not give it decent treatment) would be upsetting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

Ik but all I mean is that the console market is big, and it exist. To ignore it (or not give it decent treatment) would be upsetting.

I'm just giving you the mind set of most PC players. I'm not ignoring or dismissing consoles, they do have a place in the gaming market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...