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[1.11.2] Improved Tree Engine Placement (8th May 2021)


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Improved Tree Engine Placement // v1.4.0

License: CC BY-NC 4.0

The scope of this mod is to improve the order in which you unlock engines in the community tech tree. It does this by splitting the rocketry line into a lifter line and an efficient propulsion line, into which go booster engines and vacuum-optimized engines respectively. Nuclear and fusion propulsion lines are shifted up a row.

Inspiration has come from the recently released BetterEarlyTree mod, which I quite enjoyed, as well as Unkerballed Start, where I liked the separation of rocketry lines.

The logic behind the ordering is that you unlock engines following their diameter, i.e. you get 1.25m ones before 1.875 and so on. That logic fails though as you get into mods that add very similar engines, taking the mainsail and the mastodon as an example. Therefore, they have been ordered following a rough comparison in deltav and thrust. As of v1.4, most of the 0.625m parts have been moved around for a more sensible progression, since they always felt in the wrong place, and would suffer from underuse. However I am still unsure of the exact ordering that should be kept.

 

Spoiler

Full list of changes:

Squad

  • Thud into precision propulsion
  • Spark into basic rocketry
  • Ant into general rocketry
  • Swivel into general rocketry
  • Poodle into high efficiency propulsion
  • Twin-boar into heavier lifters
  • Thoroughbread into heavier lifters
  • Mammoth into very heavy lifters
  • Rhino into very heavy lifters
  • Clydesdale into very heavy lifters
  • Twitch into propulsion systems
  • Spider into propulsion systems
  • puff into propulsion systems

SquadExpansion

  • Kodiak into advanced rocketry
  • Cheeeeeeetah into efficient propulsion
  • Skiff into higher efficiency propulsion
  • Wolfhound into higher efficiency propulsion
  • Pollux into heavy lifters
  • Mastodon into heavy lifters
  • Cub into propulsion systems

ReStock+

  • Boar into heavy lifters
  • Pug into general rocketry
  • Corgi into very high efficiency propulsion

NFS

  • Orbital 25 into high efficiency propulsion
  • Orbital 375 into very high efficiency propulsion
  • Chickadee into precision propulsion
  • Hummingbird into precision propulsion

NFLV

  • Walrus into heavier lifters
  • Sphinx into efficient propulsion
  • Goldfish into basic rocketry
  • Otter into advanced rocketry
  • Angora into advanced rocketry
  • Ocelot into heavy lifters
  • Lynx into heavy lifters
  • Porpoise into heavy lifters
  • Cougar into heavier lifters

CryoEngines

  • Hecate into efficient propulsion
  • Stromboli into basic rocketry
  • Ulysses into higher efficiency propulsion
  • Tharsis into higher efficiency propulsion
  • Erebus into lifters
  • Etna into heavier lifters
  • Pavonis into efficient propulsion
  • Eagle into higher efficiency propulsion
  • Buzzard into efficient propulsion
  • Vulture into tremendous efficiency propulsion
  • Tyrannosaur into very heavy lifters
  • Hawk into general rocketry
  • Harrier into high efficiency propulsion

 

No pics no clicks, so here we go:

GLo8F1Z.png

 

Since this is my first official mod, feedback is very welcome, especially on my module manager patches, but also on general balance or further mod implementation.

 

Notes:

The icons are based on the Terrier, the Harrier and Tharsis engines, the latter two being from cryogenic engines.

 

Supported:

  • Stock
  • ReStock+
  • CryoEngines
  • Near Future Launch Vehicles
  • Near Future Spacecraft

 

Dependencies: (not bundled)

  • Community Tech Tree
  • Module Manager
  •  

Optional (recommended):

 

Dowload:

 

Spoiler

Changelog:

v1.4.0:

- Almost all the engines have had their position in the techtree updated, this may break saves that started on a prior version. Also includes extras for use in conjunction with BetterEarlyTree mod.

v1.3:

- Moved CryoEngine Iguanodon to one node later for balancing purposes

v1.2:

- Moved CryoEngine Iguanodon to one node later for balancing purposes

v1.2.1:

- Fix bad repository organization

v1.2:

-  Add descriptions to the nodes

- Added French and German localization

v1.1:

fixed MM syntax related error

 

Edited by KawaiiLucy
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Small FYI - MM is coughing up a warning related to /ImprovedTreeEnginePlacement/Tree/ITEP.cfg. Not sure what it's about, though, sorry!

EDIT: Never mind, found it with a little more looking:

[WRN 20:45:12.567] more than one pass specifier detected, ignoring all but the first: ImprovedTreeEnginePlacement/Tree/ITEP/@TechTree:FOR[ImprovedTreeEnginePlacement]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:AFTER[CommunityTechTree]

Edited by AccidentalDisassembly
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8 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

Small FYI - MM is coughing up a warning related to /ImprovedTreeEnginePlacement/Tree/ITEP.cfg.

I am aware of this,  it is the FOR[ImprovedTreeEnginePlacement] which is with certainty misplaced. It still works  though.

Edit: fixed it in latest update.

Edited by KawaiiLucy
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Very interested in this as I was building my own similar mod just last night.

I wondered if your thinking of adjusting the fuel tanks too?

I will download this myself now and take a look at what you have done. I will also ensure I update TechTree Kompacted for your new branch too.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

I think we should integrate this nod,  at least the technodes into Community Tech Tree.

Technically it would meet the requirements for the first four nodes for vacuum propulsion, since 2-3 mods get placed in them, but the last one currently only holds cryogenic engines, which doesn't meet it. I don't have anything against integrating it into CTT :D (my icons are kinda bad though, and not really homogenous with the style of the rest).

4 hours ago, Cruesoe said:

I wondered if your thinking of adjusting the fuel tanks too?

I hadn't thought of that, I might look into it. The mod was only a first try at ordering engines, but is open to improvement, and might expand to balance the tank placement; gonna need a new title then tho.

Edited by KawaiiLucy
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12 hours ago, KawaiiLucy said:

I hadn't thought of that, I might look into it. The mod was only a first try at ordering engines, but is open to improvement, and might expand to balance the tank placement; gonna need a new title then tho.

Fuel tanks already have their own tech branches, no need to split it up. In KSP the most usefull parts are engines so people tend to focus on them for quick progression. To mitigate that, it helps to split them up. For that reason I l also made a split between fusion engine and fission engines in KSPIE. Talking about KSPIE, I will integrate this mod into the KSPIE extended CTT tech tree, which use the same realestate in the techtree. In the KSPIE techtree, I also moved the electric engine branch up near the other engine techs, this makes a lot of sence as it allows you to cluster all engine technology neatly together.

ykfiKDP.png

 

Edited by FreeThinker
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Alright, I integrated the Improved Techtree Engine Mod into KSPIE

pr76s6M.png

As you can see, the Exotic Nuclear Propulsion (which unlock the Nuclear Salt Water Rockets) now has a dependancy to the Tremendous Efficiency Propulsion (whch will unlock Metalic Hydrogen Engines)

Edited by FreeThinker
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  • 1 month later...
On 5/5/2021 at 5:38 PM, KawaiiLucy said:

I've got no knowledge on how to do that, however after reading the github wiki I've ticked the "add to ckan" box on spacedock. I hope that that will work.

Well done. I allowed me to add it as a recommendation in CKAN, which causes it to be downloaded a lot more.

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@KawaiiLucy An now for some feedback / recommendations:

bf6IfV2.png

First of, none of the description for the new Engine technodes have any description. Anything is better than "wip" at this point

Second, why is this Liquid Hydrogen engine and Methane engines so high in the tech tree? At 1000 sci the first Fusion Engine Apear. At best these 2 engines should be "Very High Efficient Propulsion" (with 1000sci cost), but that already pushing it. Personaaly I think this node should be used for truely effiecient Chemical engines like Electricly Pumped Engines or  Methalic Hydrogen Engines.

 

Edited by FreeThinker
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3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

@KawaiiLucy An now for some feedback / recommendations:

bf6IfV2.png

First of, none of the description for the new Engine technodes have any description. Anything is better than "wip" at this point

Second, why is this Liquid Hydrogen engine and Methane engines so high in the tech tree? At 1000 sci the first Fusion Engine Apear. At best these 2 engines should be "Very High Efficient Propulsion" (with 1000sci cost), but that already pushing it. Personaaly I think this node should be used for truely effiecient Chemical engines like Electricly Pumped Engines or  Methalic Hydrogen Engines.

 

Yikes, it shouldn't be WIP, I had updated the descriptions some time ago, must've uploaded an older folder to spacedock (will fix asap). The most up-to-date version is still on github. Edit: I've checked the folders and they are all correct, have you gotten the latest release?

As for feedback: I looked back recently into the general organisation/balancing of the engines and it does seem that the later nodes are kind of lackluster or not on par with their cost. I was assuming that each supported mod would be used, but in retrospect I think I will shift the contents of the last two nodes into one node earlierto condense everything a bit. Originally it seemed good to unlock the lifter first and one node later the vacuum engine, but that concept worked better on paper than in practice; especially in the later tiers where science requierements/building upgrades may be a significant hurdle. So shifting vacuum and lifter back into the same columns might be better, leaving the last node totally empty by my patches.

Edited by KawaiiLucy
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Quick rework sketch: balance following thrust and not size (no patches written yet)

OLD 10     25     45     90     160     550     1000     1500  
  Swivel ASL 167   Reliant ASL 205   Terrier VAC 60 VACUUM Hecate VAC 55   Pavonis VAC 160   Ulysses VAC 390   Corgi VAC 250 *    Tharsis  VAC 360
  Valiant ASL 89   Thud     Thumper B-ASL 250 Buzzard  VAC 90   Harrier VAC 300   Skiff VAC 350 *   Wolfhound VAC 375   Vulture  VAC 1000
        Pug VAC 25   Bobcat ASL 449 * Sphinx VAC 95   Poodle VAC 250   Eagle  VAC 420            
              Vesuvius ASL 203 Cheetah VAC 144 *   Orbital  VAC 110   Orbital  VAC 560            
                                               
                  LIFTER Erebus  ASL 473   Fuji     Allosaur ASL 1769   Etna ASL 2537      
                    Deinonychus ASL 449   Iguanodon     Walrus ASL 678   Tyrannosaur ASL 4043      
                    Skipper ASL 735 *   Boar     Lynx ASL 948 *   Manatee ASL 4071      
                    Pollux B-ASL 1155   Mainsail     Ocelot ASL 1235   Cougar  ASL 1942 *      
                    Kickback B-ASL 593   Thoroughbread   Orca ASL 1550            
                          Kodiak ASL 247   Porpoise ASL 1170            
                                Vector ASL 782 *            
                                Twin-Boar ASL 1866            
                                Mammoth ASL 3480 *            
                                Rhino ASL 3009 *            
                                Mastodon ASL 1283            
                                Clydesdale B-ASL 2948            
                                               
                  PP Orbital 0625 VAC 14   Stromboli                    
                    Torch ASL 51   Hawk                    
                    Spark ASL 14   Compsognathus                  
                    Ant VAC 2   Otter                    
                          Goldfish                    
                          Angora                    
                          Orbital 125                    
                          Twitch                    
                          Spider                    
                          Puff                    
                          Cub                    
                                               
NEW 10     25     45     90   160     550     1000        
  Swivel ASL 167   Reliant ASL 205   Terrier VAC 60 VACUUM Cheetah VAC 144 *   Pavonis VAC 160   Ulysses VAC 390   Vulture  VAC 1000      
  Valiant ASL 89   Pug VAC 25   Thumper B-ASL 250 Hecate VAC 55   Harrier VAC 300   Skiff VAC 350 *            
              Kodiak ASL 247 Buzzard  VAC 90   Poodle VAC 250   Eagle  VAC 420            
              Vesuvius ASL 203 Sphinx VAC 95   Orbital  VAC 110   Orbital  VAC 560            
                          Corgi VAC 250 *    Wolfhound VAC 375            
                                Tharsis  VAC 360            
                                               
                  LIFTER Bobcat ASL 449 *   Iguanodon ASL 961   Allosaur ASL 1769   Manatee ASL 4071      
                    Erebus  ASL 473   Lynx ASL 948 *   Twin-Boar ASL 1866   Tyrannosaur ASL 4043      
                    Deinonychus ASL 449   Boar ASL 933   Orca ASL 1550   Mammoth ASL 3480 *      
                    Skipper ASL 735 *   Fuji ASL 915   Cougar  ASL 1942 *   Rhino ASL 3009 *      
                    Walrus ASL 678   Mastodon ASL 1283   Thoroughbread B-ASL 1515   Etna ASL 2537      
                    Kickback B-ASL 593   Mainsail ASL 1379   Vector ASL 782 *   Clydesdale B-ASL 2948      
                          Ocelot ASL 1235                  
                          Pollux B-ASL 1155                  
                          Porpoise ASL 1170                  
                                               
                  PP Twitch ASL 15   Thud ASL 108                  
                    Spider VAC 2   Chickadee ASL 52                  
                    Puff VAC 20   Hummingbird ASL 114                  
                    Cub ASL 29   Stromboli ASL 35                  
                    Orbital VAC 14   Hawk VAC 12                  
                    Torch ASL 51   Compsognathus ASL 82                  
                    Goldfish ASL 19   Otter ASL 91                  
                    Angora VAC 18   Orbital VAC 140                  
                    Spark ASL 14                        
                    Ant VAC 2                        

 

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v1.4.0: Major Rebalance

- Almost all the engines have had their position in the techtree updated, this may break saves that started on a prior version. Also includes extras for use in conjunction with BetterEarlyTree mod.

- Improved repository organization and impemented some of @FreeThinker's suggestions

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