Who Would Like a Real Scale, Real Solar System, Realism Overhaul, RP-1 Inspired Standalone Game Leveraging KSP 2 Tech?

[MechBFP]

30 minutes ago, Master39 said:

So large to be as big as KSP2 to justify publishing a completely new game just for it?

You're basically saying that basically every KSP player would play RO if it weren't for the complex installation process.

RO isn't going to magically multiplying its numbers by just being easier to install or a paid standalone game, and it's not going to do well without KSP as a first experience before it.

How many KSP players started playing directly RO without even trying stock before? And of those few who did it how many continued playing compared to similarly inexperienced players starting with KSP instead?

Even as a DLC would be a niche one (while also being probably one of the most difficult to implent, since it requires a total conversion of the game).

At the moment the only competition to KSP2 is KSP1, there's no reason to internally create even more, no way that it would be more profitable than just letting people buying KSP2 and mod it if the niche is big enough to grant a mod.

Unless you have marketing data to back up your assertions you are essentially just guessing. I know plenty of people in real life that aren't interested in KSP because it isn't based on the real solar system and you can't fly real rockets, but that anecdote is no more valid than your speculation.  The only people to my knowledge that are capable of making such an assessment (assuming they haven't already) is Private Division.

Edited March 11, 2021 by MechBFP

[Rocketology]

1 hour ago, Master39 said:

So large to be as big as KSP2 to justify publishing a completely new game just for it?

 - Isn't that the entire purpose of this post?

You're basically saying that basically every KSP player would play RO if it weren't for the complex installation process.

 - Where did I state this? I just stated that more people would.

RO isn't going to magically multiplying its numbers by just being easier to install or a paid standalone game, and it's not going to do well without KSP as a first experience before it.

-The  RSS/ RO community is already much larger than you think it is, and again, yes, yes it would. KSP doesn't transfer nearly as much experience to RSS/ RO as you think - again (I seem to be repeating myself for you a lot) it provides a much different experience. Enough of a difference and potential market to justify a stand alone game.

How many KSP players started playing directly RO without even trying stock before? And of those few who did it how many continued playing compared to similarly inexperienced players starting with KSP instead?

-There isn't a choice in this, part of the reason for the post. And most that do try RSS/ RO, most do stick with it.

Even as a DLC would be a niche one (while also being probably one of the most difficult to implent, since it requires a total conversion of the game).

- You seem to keep thinking that very few people have tried or play RSS/ RO, it actually has quite a community already around it. Is it smaller than the main KSP crowd? Yes, but significantly larger than you seem to be implying - and continues to grow.

At the moment the only competition to KSP2 is KSP1, there's no reason to internally create even more, no way that it would be more profitable than just letting people buying KSP2 and mod it if the niche is big enough to grant a mod.

-How is KSP 1 competition for KSP 2? KSP 2 doesn't exist in the market place. Nor would a spin-off game be competition to KSP 2 once released. Is Red Dead 2 competition to GTA V? Is Fallout 4 competition to Skyrim? No. Why? Because they deliver A. Completely. Different. Experience.
 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Rocketology said:

 

"Being a pretty big community for a niche mod of a niche game" is still several orders of magnitude below the numbers needed to justify publishing 2 mostly identical games.

And yes, I know there are differences, some of them even huge, but in terms of target audience and market they're basically the same game.

In a world where RPGs never took off and Skyrim it's the only option with Oblivion and a bunch of early access alphas as the only competition and the game has no real ending (like KSP) and a flourishing modding community then yes, Fallout would be a terrible idea.

At most I could see a secondary game mode, but there's still the problem of having to redo all the assets and gameplay balances from scratch and it would be viable only if their attempt to make a more moddable game fails spectacularly and/or if the modding community doesn't move from KSP1 to KSP2.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Master39
I shouldn't post while sleeping, fixed.

[shdwlrd]

It's a huge waste of resources for the (at the most) thousand players who would actually use it. This would be better off as a mod.

[MechBFP]

3 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

It's a huge waste of resources for the (at the most) thousand players who would actually use it. This would be better off as a mod.

Once again, where is the marketing data you are using to justify this position?

[shdwlrd]

2 hours ago, MechBFP said:

Once again, where is the marketing data you are using to justify this position?

Looking at the number of people following RSS in the forum and in github. Then extrapolating the number of people from there.

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, shdwlrd said:

Looking at the number of people following RSS in the forum and in github. Then extrapolating the number of people from there.

So would that be considered reliable marketing data?

[shdwlrd]

32 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

So would that be considered reliable marketing data?

Without being able to see the number of downloads, it would be impossible to tell. The best I can come up with is looking at the number of people following the mod. Since only 73 users are following RSS on the forum and 93 following in github, I would have to say the overall number of players actually playing with RSS is small compared to people using the stock system.

[Guest]

On 3/5/2021 at 5:31 AM, Jacke said:

I personally wish Squad had gone with a proper real-scale planetary system for KSP, even if they made it a calque of the Solar System instead of an exact copy.  They reduced the space scale when the better way was to allow more scale of the time scale.

I wish KSP 2 would be a real-scale planetary system.

The size of planets would make the game more difficult for beginners. Imagine having an Eve level launch for every single payload. It would basically nerf all the cool things you can do with KSP. Like gigantic space stations, lunar bases in one launch. I think I wouldn't play KSP if it had the size amount. Because we would lose the feeling of making kerbal crafts.

[Jacke]

8 hours ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

The size of planets would make the game more difficult for beginners. Imagine having an Eve level launch for every single payload. It would basically nerf all the cool things you can do with KSP. Like gigantic space stations, lunar bases in one launch. I think I wouldn't play KSP if it had the size amount. Because we would lose the feeling of making kerbal crafts.

They could also put in realistic mass fractions on the tankage as well as adjust the masses of many parts, because those are artificially worse in KSP.

The problems start whenever you try to understand the KSP universe and how it's not possible with matter that exists here (example, calculate the average density of Kerbin, which is denser than any matter that can exist outside the core of a stellar-mass object).  It's also what made making the aerodynamics hard to get right.

Of course, the best solution is if the basic rescale of the system in Kopernicus and RSS/RO was stock.  Then we could have both games in one.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Jacke said:

They could also put in realistic mass fractions on the tankage as well as adjust the masses of many parts, because those are artificially worse in KSP.

The problems start whenever you try to understand the KSP universe and how it's not possible with matter that exists here (example, calculate the average density of Kerbin, which is denser than any matter that can exist outside the core of a stellar-mass object).  It's also what made making the aerodynamics hard to get right.

Of course, the best solution is if the basic rescale of the system in Kopernicus and RSS/RO was stock.  Then we could have both games in one.

KSP never had to be the perfect space simulator. But it gives people a good stepping stone to walk on, KSP won't teach you how to fly spacecraft in real life. But it gives you a sandbox to understand physics in.

Now I don't see a problem with a RSS replica in KSP 2. But it should be an easter egg

[Drakenred65]

Im reminded yet again that Humans really have no since of scale.

KSP they are planning on adding new solar systems and planets. Basically were getting at least one generation of Interstellar capable ships with theoreticaly possible engines, that and interstellar colonies are basically planed to be in the box with KSP2.

that comes with a problem, We already dont know how the heck they plan to scale all of this.

In KSP the Kerbal system has an outer planet that has a distance of .76 AU, Eeloo

Earth's periapsis (or more specific perihelion) is about 147 Gm (or 0.98 AU) and thus outside of Eeloo's orbit.

 

Pluto, which is Eeloos analog in reality  travels out to around 29.658 AU or about  39.02 times the distance.

the nearest star to earth is 4.2465 ± 0.0003 Light years, given KSP1s scall that works out to around .10888 lightyears

there's a interesting problem with that number

The outer Oort cloud is .79 Lightyears out with the inner Oort torus estimated at being as far out as .3 lightyears.

Hopefully they take the time to sort all of that out or having a sun and solar system suddenly show up in everyone's Oort cloud  that may hold CK impactor sized comets might just be an issue.

 

[Drakenred65]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Snipage

all that said their is a bigger issue.

 

we realy don’t know how they intend to add in and or  account for travel distances and different  acceleration profiles in interstellar spaces. We don’t know how they plan to implement Hill spheres or a just use a mandatory the outer orbit of Eeloo you run into kebalistic time distortions from your pure velocity ity for example, or anything else.  It may be that say 1 AU past 2 x system size you run into a semi cut screen that accelerates you to travel velocity that ends with you decelerating from travel mode at a similar distance, because they want to avoid some of the glitches that crop up when using Copernicus for example.

 

Tthe reality that simply trying to make eveything real scale in size, gravity, and density, might introduce a literal cascade of failure into the system that makes Fallout 76 or Anthem at launch look like the most polished game in history, . . We will not know untill we get a look at things, but the fact that many of the people who talked with them including mod developers seem to have no problem with the developers treating the idea of real scale in Ksp2  as a non starter....

never mind that currently the Developers themselves consider it a non starter.

let’s just say that at this point it’s currently a topic that is as dead a horse as the original  Noto  (能登馬) breed in Japan, of which we only have DNA samples recovered from horses that died prior to 1910,  and even then even at that those  samples came from horses which are only suspected of being that breed whose pedigree was not provable.

[FabioofSpace]

I'd love a RSS style standalone game with the stuff from KSP 2. Especially if you can mod it as much as normal KSP, that would be epic.