Was a first person in space actually a women (that flown before Gagarin)

[Pawelk198604]

A few days ago it was women's day, my mother was also very interested in space, she told how she watched the landing of a man on the moon by Neil Armstrong, Poland seems to be one of the few countries from the former Eastern Bloc, the rest were probably only Romania, Hungary and perhaps Czechoslovakia, and Yuguslaw (although they do not care because they did not belong to Comecon or the Warsaw Pact) who decided to broadcast Apollo 11 directly, which liquided off Brezhnev because he could not just forbid us without contradicting his own narrative of the Soviet Union that Comecon is a union of independent and free socialistic states and not puppet states and satellites (but non-space ones : ) as it was IRL

I have always wondered about conspiracy theories related to the beginning of human space exploration, but not those related to the alleged fake by NASA and Stanley Kubrick of the moon landings ;-)
But there are indications that Yuri Gagarin was not the first man in space, that the first man in space was a Russian, but it was not Gagarin, that perhaps it was even a Russian woman who died a painful and martyr's death (martyrdom for science), that she burned alive at re-entering the atmosphere :-(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZidFWLrLnU

My mother had a profession, he was an electrician measuring technician, my late mother worked in a state-owned company that made windings for electric motors, for electric locomotives in the Panstowa PafaWag company :-) My mother was very smart, she also worked as an electrician in a steel plant, although at the very end of her In career in free and democratic Poland, she worked as a senior supply specialist in a company that made chainsaws under the license of the Swedish company Husqvarna and a specialist in contacts with capitalist countries, but she never joined the Polish United Workers 'Party, i.e. the Polish United Workers' Party (Communist Party), even though she had such offers, once with my brother we told her that it would be okay to sign up, maybe we would get a bigger apartment, but in my mother's opinion joining the communists for a bigger apartment would be political prostitution, that just like the Germans explain that they had to join the NSDAP to make a career :-)

I have always wondered about conspiracy theories related to the beginning of human space exploration, but not those related to the alleged fake by NASA and Stanley Kubrick of the moon landings ;-)

But there are indications that Yuri Gagarin was not the first man in space, that the first man in space was a Russian, but it was not Gagarin, that perhaps it was even a Russian woman who died a painful and martyr's death (martyrdom for science), that she burned alive at re-entering the atmosphere

[magnemoe]

I say its unlikely that the story would not be disclosed after the Soviet Union dissolved like all the other stories who was secret up to then like the Soviet moon program.

[DDE]

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0235.shtml

[kerbiloid]

The first man was not woman. Only test pilots were hired for obvious reasons, all male.

Edited March 11, 2021 by kerbiloid

[Kerbart]

8 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

The first man was not woman. Only test pilots were hired for obvious reasons, all male.

Care to elaborate on “obvious?”

NASA's intention was to run the craft completely automated, so you'd be able to launch an ape into space and it would work (which they actually did).  No particular pilot skills needed.

[kerbiloid]

13 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Care to elaborate on “obvious?”

Test pilots have best health condition, trained to withstand overloads and disorientation, are trained to react quickly and predictably in unpredictable situations, psychologically stable being alone in hostile environment.

Isn't it obvious?

So, test pilots.

13 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

NASA's intention was to run the craft completely automated, so you'd be able to launch an ape into space and it would work (which they actually did).  No particular pilot skills needed.

Soviet space vessels were traditionally more automated than US ones. USA allowed pilots be more pilotting, while in the Soviet ships they're a backup option.

Edited March 11, 2021 by kerbiloid

[Kerbart]

15 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Test pilots have best health condition, trained to withstand overloads and disorientation, are trained to react quickly and predictably in unpredictable situations, psychologically stable being alone in hostile environment.

Isn't it obvious?

No. Not really. Women passed those test just the same. Jerrie Cobb was a test pilot, by the way. So, Test pilots. Why not women?

 

15 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

So, test pilots.

Soviet space vessels were traditionally more automated than US ones. USA allowed pilots be more pilotting, while in the Soviet ships they're a backup option.

Yes, allowed but not necessitated. And that was not the initial intention, but the astronauts objected to being merely a passenger. What was the point of their piloting skills, they argued?

Piloting skills the women had as well, by the way — but the criteria were set up in such a way that jet-fighter experience was a requirement which kept women out of the program without saying "women need not apply"

[sevenperforce]

2 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

there are indications that Yuri Gagarin was not the first man in space, that the first man in space was a Russian, but it was not Gagarin, that perhaps it was even a Russian woman who died a painful and martyr's death (martyrdom for science), that she burned alive at re-entering the atmosphere

No

[kerbiloid]

59 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

No. Not really. Women passed those test just the same. Jerrie Cobb was a test pilot, by the way. So, Test pilots. Why not women?

Because test pilots in the USSR were men, except  several women in history.

59 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

What was the point of their piloting skills, they argued?

Not piloting skills, but general attitude skills and best health. The skill of quick and predictable reaction in unpredictable situations like a burning and falling plane, the skill of quick situation estimation and quick selection of proper decision under stress.

Edited March 11, 2021 by kerbiloid

[Delta dart]

I highly doubt that those conspiracies are true. I remember that the same people that claimed to capture the audio that you linked also created several more like one that supposedly captured a cosmonaut accidentally veering into deep space. Now it is highly improbable that you can accidentally veer off into deep space, first of all is that the Vostok spacecraft of the time only had enough fuel to de-orbit and that's it, second lets say they had some other more powerful spacecraft that would have enough delta v to exit LEO you cannot "accidentally" fire your engine for long enough to  push you into deep space if you did have an accidental thruster firing it would only be enough to scare you a little bit. Also in the recordings the "cosmonauts" don't even follow standard soviet radio terminology. And even more evidence is that in a few of the recordings some of the dialogue has no meaning in Russian (think something like florp or droy that has no meaning) this does not make sense as the USSR's space program only hired fluent Russian speakers. But in conclusion if some of the recordings are fake most likely all of them are.

[Gargamel]

For the record, before anybody gets too upset about it, @kerbiloid is not stating women couldn't be test pilots, just that the vast majority of USSR test pilots were men.   

Edited March 11, 2021 by Gargamel
Typo!

[kerbiloid]

_{(deleted obsoleted)}

Edited March 11, 2021 by kerbiloid

[Gargamel]

5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

They were very rare.

Sigh.... yes.   Sorry for the typo.   Fixed. 

[SOXBLOX]

No, нет, nein, and non. Why would the Soviets even send a woman on the first flight? Not saying women can't fly, but it doesn't make sense. Much more likely that it's an [snip] hoax  [snip]

Edited March 11, 2021 by Vanamonde

[Vanamonde]

Remember to leave politics out, please. Some comments removed. 

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Yes, allowed but not necessitated. And that was not the initial intention, but the astronauts objected to being merely a passenger.

The Soviet docking system was automated almost from the very beginning. (It failed often and made to dock manually, but that's another thing).
Gemini and Apollo were docking manually, by pilots.

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, Delta dart said:

I highly doubt that those conspiracies are true. I remember that the same people that claimed to capture the audio that you linked also created several more like one that supposedly captured a cosmonaut accidentally veering into deep space. Now it is highly improbable that you can accidentally veer off into deep space, first of all is that the Vostok spacecraft of the time only had enough fuel to de-orbit and that's it, second lets say they had some other more powerful spacecraft that would have enough delta v to exit LEO you cannot "accidentally" fire your engine for long enough to  push you into deep space if you did have an accidental thruster firing it would only be enough to scare you a little bit. Also in the recordings the "cosmonauts" don't even follow standard soviet radio terminology. And even more evidence is that in a few of the recordings some of the dialogue has no meaning in Russian (think something like florp or droy that has no meaning) this does not make sense as the USSR's space program only hired fluent Russian speakers. But in conclusion if some of the recordings are fake most likely all of them are.

This, now its an more plausible theory that the first did not reach orbit but ended in China, again the Soviets kept is secret and bribed China to do, but no reason for Russia to do so if not an problem for Russia today. 
Russia is not responsible for the Soviet wrongdoings but can harvest its glories. 

[kerbiloid]

It also could not end in China because the Baikonur place was chosen between other alternatives exactly to avoid passing with any part of trajectory above any foreign territory and to have 500 km at each side for on-ground beacon stations supporting the archaic navigation system of R-7.

Edited March 11, 2021 by kerbiloid

[Brotoro]

...assuming the rocket stayed on course, of course.

[kerbiloid]

54 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

...assuming the rocket stayed on course, of course.

To get off course by 500 km after first 500 km of distance, the rocket should have a lot of excessive delta-V.

No R-7 have ever fallen in China.

Edited March 12, 2021 by kerbiloid

[Brotoro]

You wouldn't need any extra delta-V. Just veer 30 degrees to the right of the intended flight path.

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Brotoro said:

Just veer 30 degrees

= delta-V sidewards

R-7 had ~10 km hit accuracy.

[Brotoro]

No. You don’t have to expend extra delta-V to fly off in a different direction. Just take off going in that direction.

R-7 had 10-km hit accuracy *IF* it follows its intended course. But, as I said, it has to stay on course to do that. You can’t have somebody hammer in a gyroscope at the wrong angle, for example (not that I’m implying that a Russian worker could ever hammer in a sensor incorrectly...obviously that could never happen).

[kerbiloid]

23 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

No. You don’t have to expend extra delta-V to fly off in a different direction. Just take off going in that direction.

No. R-7 doesn't choose the direction. The whole launchpad pad gets rotated in desired direction, then the rocket just tilts in vertical plane.

23 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

I’m implying that a Russian worker could ever hammer in a sensor incorrectly.

If you believe in fairy tales, Any sensor has contacts, it just can't be installed overturned.

Edited March 12, 2021 by kerbiloid

[SunlitZelkova]

Yuri Gagarin was the first human being in space.

There are a few problems with the "someone else was the first in space and they covered it up" conspiracy theory-

1. Gagarin's flight was announced while he was still in orbit. Why would they not have done this if they sent someone into space earlier?

2. There is zero evidence for the "there was someone else and they covered it up" claims. Documents regarding the Soviet space programs have been virtually completely declassified.

3. When Valentin Bondarenko died, the Soviets attempted to cover up his existence, and were sloppy about it and it was already known by the early 60s a cosmonaut had perished one way or another. If there was another cosmonaut who died, his existence and demise would be known in some way. But all of the other cosmonauts apart from Bondarenko are accounted for.

4. Either people have made such a claim with no evidence, or both the people making such accusations and their evidence have all had dubious backgrounds.

Serious consideration of "it might have been someone else and they covered it up because that's what the Soviets do" is the equivalent of me saying we should seriously consider the possibility of the Apollo Moon landings having been faked because the United States and Britain successfully kept the role that codebreaking played during WWII secret until the 1980s, and therefore they are hypothetically capable of keeping a fake Moon landing a secret. It is not a good idea to drop to that level of thinking.

Edited March 12, 2021 by SunlitZelkova