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Is it possible for a planet to go into another planet's SOI and it trajectory is unchanged? And can this be implemented in KSP2?


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I was wondering the other day. It is possible for like tow planets to cross each other's Sphere of Influence and the orbits of both objects would not change (or change by like very little or none). Like and example to put it into better terms like Eeloo and Jool encounter each other but both of the planets orbits are not changed. So, is this possible in real physics and is it possible to implement it in KSP2?

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8 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

KSP celestial bodies are not orbiting, they are just rolling on rails.

I know. But since in KSP2 is supposed to be based off of physics more than KSP is it possible in theory or in real life?

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

I know. But since in KSP2 is supposed to be based off of physics more than KSP is it possible in theory or in real life?

If the planetary orbits get as "stable" as the vessel ones, it should be named "Khaos Space Program"

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Is it possible for 2 planets to cross paths closely and not deflect each other significantly in real life? 

Not really. (unless they fly by each other REAALLLLLY fast at a fair distance)

Is it possible in KSP 2 to program it so they dont deflect?

Yes.

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My understanding ...  IRL planets can, will, and do, affect the orbits of others.   They would not get anywhere near close to other planets without there being an effect, however small and undetectable it may be to us.  But over time big changes can happen.

In KSP they are 'set' in their orbits, so cannot interract.  And I very much doubt KSP2 will be any different.   Even Rask and Rusk, the binary we know about, will have set 'rules' programmed in to make it work in game, and prevent problems occurring.

But yes, I see no reason why it would not be possible to programme any behavior, or lack of it, they want to.

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No, by definition, because a planet has "cleared its orbit" (except for any moons it has). Are you too young to remember the heated debate over whether Pluto was a planet or not?

Planets which appear to have intersecting orbits, will either be inclined so they don't actually intersect, or possibly be in some kind of orbital resonance which assures they will never meet (but then its not really a planet?) Otherwise they would have met some time in the past. 

In real life, orbits of planets can and do alter, so its possible that a long way into the future two could do it such that they eventually encounter. But not going to happen in KSP.

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this would be rally game breaking so i dont tink they would ad this. it also woulldnt add any fun to the game just frustration because your save would suck if some planets just get impossible to get to

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14 hours ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

I was wondering the other day. It is possible for like tow planets to cross each other's Sphere of Influence and the orbits of both objects would not change (or change by like very little or none). Like and example to put it into better terms like Eeloo and Jool encounter each other but both of the planets orbits are not changed. So, is this possible in real physics and is it possible to implement it in KSP2?

With a game engine, as with the imagination, anything is possible. As I understand it, in the real world this is possible but very unlikely with a random convergence. Large planets like Jool which is analagous to Jupiter, are believed to be responsible for flinging other planets about in the early era of star system formation.

A small moon sized planet like Eloo/Pluto cannot get close to a gas giant like Jool/Jupiter at orbital speeds without having its orbit around the sun bent out of shape by the huge gravity well of the larger planet. The small planet will deviate massively from its previous orbit but the larger planet will deviate hardly at all because the mass of the small planet only creates a tiny gravity well. The small planet will in most cases either be accelerated by a slingshot effect or be dropped into a lower orbit by a negative slingshot deceleration.

It is possible for a very restricted set of cases for the acceleration and deceleration to cancel out and balance each other. This is why Jupiter's moons for example have settled into a pattern of resonant frequencies 4:2:1.

Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of?

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2 hours ago, boolybooly said:

With a game engine, as with the imagination, anything is possible. As I understand it, in the real world this is possible but very unlikely with a random convergence. Large planets like Jool which is analagous to Jupiter, are believed to be responsible for flinging other planets about in the early era of star system formation.

A small moon sized planet like Eloo/Pluto cannot get close to a gas giant like Jool/Jupiter at orbital speeds without having its orbit around the sun bent out of shape by the huge gravity well of the larger planet. The small planet will deviate massively from its previous orbit but the larger planet will deviate hardly at all because the mass of the small planet only creates a tiny gravity well. The small planet will in most cases either be accelerated by a slingshot effect or be dropped into a lower orbit by a negative slingshot deceleration.

It is possible for a very restricted set of cases for the acceleration and deceleration to cancel out and balance each other. This is why Jupiter's moons for example have settled into a pattern of resonant frequencies 4:2:1.

Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of?

Yes!

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In KSP, you can get all sorts of weird situations like SOIs overlapping and having two planets be on top of one another. As others have pointed out, KSP planets are "on rails" so there's nothing that can disturb their orbits. Realistically, if Eeloo encountered Jool, it'd likely be flung out of the system, or have its orbit drastically changed. In KSP1, there's the mod Principia that simulates n-body physics. It turns out that many of planet-moon systems aren't quite stable when you do that (for example, Minmus would be flung out of Kerbin, and many of Jool's moons would be unstable). 

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1 hour ago, Empiro said:

It turns out that many of planet-moon systems aren't quite stable when you do that (for example, Minmus would be flung out of Kerbin, and many of Jool's moons would be unstable). 

Do you think KSP2 will attempt to solve these issues and make the solar system properly stable? You know, adjusting orbits so that every system is self-stabilizing. Or would doing that just ruin the fun of a system like Jool?

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19 minutes ago, InfernoSD said:

Do you think KSP2 will attempt to solve these issues and make the solar system properly stable? You know, adjusting orbits so that every system is self-stabilizing. Or would doing that just ruin the fun of a system like Jool?

I think they will leave the orbit be fore the original. However for the others, physics comes to play.

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On 3/25/2021 at 2:45 PM, InfernoSD said:

Do you think KSP2 will attempt to solve these issues and make the solar system properly stable? You know, adjusting orbits so that every system is self-stabilizing. Or would doing that just ruin the fun of a system like Jool?

KSP2 is using the same physics as KSP, so there's no reason for them to make them stable in N-body. As far as we know, the only place where KSP2 diverges from KSP1's physics is Rask && Rusk which might implement some form of limited N-body.

Does that mean they still couldn't test the systems and make sure they're stable in a N-body physics system? Absolutely not, and considering how much they've been touting "Improved modding" they might've considered doing so to make the lives of whatever people end up developing Principia II easier.

But, the answer is we don't know. I'd lean more on the side of No, because they're already delayed. Things like this would've hit the chopping block floor almost instantly.

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On 3/21/2021 at 1:14 AM, Dr. Kerbal said:

I know. But since in KSP2 is supposed to be based off of physics more than KSP is it possible in theory or in real life?

From what we've seen everything in KSP 2 will also be on rails. 

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