Suggestion: An official Community Contest to submit new stock crafts for inclusion in a future update?

[Stone Blue]

So, when I start with many of the pre-built stock crafts, I find I have to tweak them quite a bit. Some of the rockets and aircraft, dont seem to fly well, and require a lot of user input just to fly stable.
Also, I seem to end up taking them apart, removing unecessary parts, and having to add others. Even just for simple things like first contracts, ie getting simple sats into Kerbin orbit, or doing short aircraft flights or rover science gathering around KSC.

It would also be kinda nice to just see a little bit moar variety, and some purpose built craft added. I mean, craft files arent all that big, and dont seem to have much bearing on performance. Mebbe some fresh ideas and designs would be kewl, too.

Most, if not all of them have been around since KSP was in alpha or beta.... The game has changed sooo much since then. vOv

What about doing a Community Submission Contest, like what was done for the new loading screens?
Just with using ONLY stock parts, of course...

@UomoCapra what do you think? vOv

Mebbe having a custom forum signature or profile icon for winners to add to their forum accounts would be a kewl prize? vOv

Edited April 10, 2021 by Stone Blue

[swjr-swis]

I really like this idea.  The list of stock craft can definitely be improved and/or expanded on.

The only problem will be, there's potentially so many to choose from! They might need to limit entries by specifying categories with specific requirements, modeled a bit like the forum challenges. Would be nice to see a few really random/outrageous designs too though, so I hope they include for at least a couple 'free-form most impressive/useful/crazy craft' or some such.

I would really prefer the stock craft to be functional as is though. I get that one of the underpinning thoughts was to give people something to tinker with, but I think that is better left to the scenarios.

 

3 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

The game has changed sooo much since then.

This is the same excuse they used to disappear the Stearwing D45. <sob>   Why can't we just fix them to work within the latest version?

 

In fact, here's my first entry in that spirit: the Stearwing D45-C, a resurrected Stearwing D45 that has its many... peculiarities, yes let's call it that... fixed and made to work again in the current versions, and perform well at it too.

Craft file: https://kerbalx.com/swjr-swis/Stearwing-D45-C

And some teasers (full album here):

Spoiler

 

 

[Bej Kerman]

Beforehand, the stock craft list should get an overhaul, adding folders and a way to search and tag these, so that the list doesn't just get swamped with stock ships after a couple years.

[Stone Blue]

2 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

I would really prefer the stock craft to be functional as is though. I get that one of the underpinning thoughts was to give people something to tinker with, but I think that is better left to the scenarios

Yeah... i agree... dont have to be fancy... but functional... like, some of the aircraft just seem to refuse to keep stable flight.... I have them either go nose-up, or yaw pretty bad...

With changes to physics & stuff thru the years... its moar critical where CoM/CoL/CoT etc are located, as well as where & how control surfaces are placed, since the existing craft were added to the game...

Many of the existing designs arent "bad"... just... need tweaking?
I doubt its a high priority on Squad's list, thats why I thin it might be good to do the community submission thing... Squad/KSP would get the benefits, without a lot of time/effort into it... vOv

And if it happens, like I said, I would lie to see some more, basic, but purpose-built craft added...

I know User @Raptor9 had an AWESOME collection of all-stock crafts.... Let the Community come up with, and submit some stuff like this...
 

I know there are also some great KSP streamers out there, who build EXCELLENT stoc craft, like Rocketology & EJ_SA...
If people want to learn how to build nice stock stuff, or to get ideas for submissions, I would highly suggest watching some of their build streams.

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Beforehand, the stock craft list should get an overhaul, adding folders and a way to search and tag these, so that the list doesn't just get swamped with stock ships after a couple years.

That would be nice.... but again, if it hasnt been done so far, i doubt its high on Squad's priority list.

And as for just about everything KSP: "There's at least one mod that will do that..." ... lol (sorry Purists)...

I would just be happy with being able to load any craft I wanted, mebbe add just a few "mission-specific" parts, and go.... without having to spend so much time first tweaking the base crafts. vOv

Edited April 10, 2021 by Stone Blue

[Guest]

I always delete them so I’m a bit biased but I think the number needs trimming to fit each area of the game. What I mean is 1 space plane, 1 rover, 1 rocket, 1 lander etc as at the moment there seems to be 4 or 5 versions of the same thing (none of which are any good really).

[OHara]

I just looked through all the stock craft.  I had forgotten how many there are.  New players might expect them to be examples of good ideas for KSP, but mostly they are not. The "Kerbal X" Mun-capable rocket is pretty good, though.

We could certainly have a forum challenge to make sample craft for demonstrating KSP techniques for new players, one each in categories we choose.   Then there is nothing stopping us from putting them in a KerbalX hangar with license statements that make it easy for Squad to republish them with just an attribution. 

Categories might be (ignoring the DLC parts):
+Simple satellite launcher
+Three-stage rocket and lander (capable of Minmus Gilly and Mun)
+Large lander with a cargo bay holding a rover, all mounted to an appropriate lifter
+Launcher for multiple satellites (showing a way to pack them in a fairing)
+Atmospheric fixed-wing aircraft
+Spaceplane for getting to Kerbin orbit and back

The 'Stearwing D45 C' as refurbished by @swjr-swis is a good example for that spaceplane.  Giving the wings 5° incidence is a good thing to show new players.  If this was put on a challenge thread, I'd suggest making it aerodynamically stable, because it is currently very hard to fly without SAS.  I would (and did) move the wings back to move the aerodynamic centre, then flatten the incidence on the detachable wing to bring the CoL back close to the CoM.  I would also suggest moving the front gear back so the nose is raised 3° on the runway, so that the plane takes itself off. 

Everyone has different opinions on how to make craft, though, and not all of us will be happy that the demonstration craft are not build in our favourite way.  (I would need to hold my tongue, for example, regarding the use of evil autostruts on the Stearwing.)

[swjr-swis]

2 hours ago, OHara said:

(I would need to hold my tongue, for example, regarding the use of evil autostruts on the Stearwing.)

Considering the forced stock use of autostruts on wheels and anything stack attached under engine plates, and how the game goes haywire the moment they're not used (try attach landing gear on anything past a robotics part, and 'unlock' it)... I think we're long past considering them 'evil'. A necessary evil perhaps, and one people need to learn when (not) to use . At least this Stearwing is teaching people to use 'grandparent' as the target when the craft is meant to dock.

But yes, all good points. Some personal preferences are inevitable in the design choices, and we use craft differently too (I use no mods -no autopilots- and use standard keyboard and mouse as inputs), which makes other considerations paramount for each of us. I don't really see that as a problem, rather as an opportunity to learn different ways to get things done. Besides, I feel that if the craft design is such that a few simple tweaks transform it to a different personal preference... I'd say that's a better base to start from as stock example - rather than a craft that requires to be fixed to be used at all.

Perhaps two or three of each main category, with an explicit choice to make each included example show a different design solution for key elements? It would showcase the flexibility and potential of the KSP build system, and allow players to explore different schools of design and control.

I would suggest a requirement should be to add enough of an explanation/description to highlight the design choices made and the intended usage. We shouldn't just slap something together and hope someone can figure out our thinking on their own. That Stearwing is clearly missing some usage instructions. And I wouldn't expect mine to make it to the list just for being the first entry offered - that's what the community challenge would be for.

 

2 hours ago, OHara said:

Categories might be (ignoring the DLC parts):
+Simple satellite launcher
+Three-stage rocket and lander (capable of Minmus Gilly and Mun)
+Large lander with a cargo bay holding a rover, all mounted to an appropriate lifter
+Launcher for multiple satellites (showing a way to pack them in a fairing)
+Atmospheric fixed-wing aircraft
+Spaceplane for getting to Kerbin orbit and back

I'd like to add for consideration:

• Rover
• Land and return vehicle (with and without kerbals)
• Vertical launch/return SSTO
• At least one shuttle-like
• A more defined split of aircraft into basic categories of their own: I'd say at least a passenger, a cargo, a science/surveyor plane, and a supersonic plane.
• A few subassemblies/payloads, which would help players familiarize themselves with modular design, the reuse of modules (eg. 'merge') in VAB/SPH, and the general concept of matching lift vehicle to payload and/or vice versa:  eg. a satellite, a transfer stage, an Eve aerobrake/delivery stage
• Space station
• Surface base
• Some craft/assemblies demonstrating ore scanning/mining/refining
• Somewhat more controversial, I expect, but I really would like to see at least one or two examples of constructs that have no real use case for an aerospace program as such, but which at least show the potential for alternative activities/objectives in this sandbox. A working Rubik's cube... a train... a Mech... a working piston engine. There's been some amazing creations, let's showcase a few and spark people's imaginations.

 

[Stone Blue]

I whole-heartedly agree with @swjr-swis's above post...
I'll just add, that yeah, pre-built stock Subassemblies are seriously lacking, ie *non-existant*... one feature of the game that was added, and never utilized in the stoc game...(as far as having any *examples*, anyway)

Also, another recent game addition, that also hasnt been utilized in stock pre-built craft, is the Truss Structure & Interstage nodes in fairings....
For years, people have had to turn to the community to learn/ask about how to build simple sat constellations... esp. when trying/building for deploying multiple sats in one launch.... Having a stock craft or subassembly with multiple little comsats pre-stacked, utilizing the truss and/or interstage nodes in a prebuilt fairing might help with that. I site the Comsat LX craft.... one with 3 or 4 stacked sats, and an appropriately lengthened/upgraded launcher would be a good start.

Also, things like the Rover + Skycrane, Spacestation Core, Supre-Heavy Lander, etc should be moved to being a subbassembly, not a "complete" craft... That would help clear out the "all ready too long list of stock craft" in the craft manager, which some people have (rightly) sited...

Edited April 11, 2021 by Stone Blue

[Stone Blue]

Hmm.. KSP's 10th anniversary is coming up in a couple weeks... mebbe this would be a good way to "celebrate", and get the community involved in it? vOv

 

[swjr-swis]

3 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

KSP's 10th anniversary is coming up in a couple weeks... mebbe this would be a good way to "celebrate", and get the community involved in it? vOv

While they're preparing the festivities, they could reopen the merchandise store and selling plushies of stock craft too!

[ZinkBot]

2 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

While they're preparing the festivities, they could reopen the merchandise store and selling plushies of stock craft too!

That would be SO cool!

[kspnerd122]

Honestly, I would love this, some crafts I would like to see include

A rover and appropriate launcher for going to duna/eve with

A manned lander with a rover capable of landing on high G planets

A actual SSTO capable of doing a minmus landing

A space station

A manned craft capable of doing a duna landing mission

And a surface base with ISRU

[camacju]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:54 AM, kspnerd122 said:

A actual SSTO capable of doing a minmus landing

I'd actually prefer a one-up on that and have a high performance SSTO capable of a trip to Laythe and back, or even farther. The SSTO stock craft are clearly intended for low Kerbin orbit operations, which is fine, but so much more than that is possible.

If not that, then at least one craft that pushes the envelope of the typical KSP player would be nice. For example, an Eve return

[kspnerd122]

I mean, yeah, maybe a rocket that can leave eve, along with some SSTOs that are capable of doing things, such as actually moving cargo into orbit, or flying that same cargo to another planet(e.g, able to take the largest 2.5m tank to minmus or something)

It doesnt have to be the best, but it needs to be kinda good, but laythe is a bit too far, as most laythe SSTOs without refueling resort to gravity assists(which noobs AS A RULE dont know how to do(other than the basic tylo/laythe jool capture)

So a idea I had would be a SSTO that can get to minmus and refuel, and then it has the Dv to go to duna, gilly, laythe, etc.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

On 4/10/2021 at 12:54 PM, Bej Kerman said:

Beforehand, the stock craft list should get an overhaul, adding folders and a way to search and tag these, so that the list doesn't just get swamped with stock ships after a couple years.

That would be a great QoL improvement. 

Having craft organized by type and series, so instead of having ten craft for slight variations on my Heron-class SSTO, I can have a folder for all of these. 
Honestly that would be awesome. 

[kspnerd122]

YES PLEASE

1 minute ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

That would be a great QoL improvement. 

Having craft organized by type and series, so instead of having ten craft for slight variations on my Heron-class SSTO, I can have a folder for all of these. 
Honestly that would be awesome. 

 

[Lewie]

 Ot a bad idea at all! Would be very interesting to see

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

On 4/10/2021 at 5:54 PM, Bej Kerman said:

Beforehand, the stock craft list should get an overhaul, adding folders and a way to search and tag these, so that the list doesn't just get swamped with stock ships after a couple years.

That would be a great QoL improvement. 

Having craft organized by type and series, so instead of having ten craft for slight variations on my Heron-class SSTO, I can have a folder for all of these. 
Honestly that would be awesome. 

I'm stepping into KSP 2 territory, but KSP should use a system where several craft (e.g. different payloads with a launch system with minor variations) can be bundled into one with several tabs - to save space, the game can find a common set of root parts and append changes when loading different tabs. It's better than having a lot of craft files for the same thing.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

2 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I'm stepping into KSP 2 territory, but KSP should use a system where several craft (e.g. different payloads with a launch system with minor variations) can be bundled into one with several tabs - to save space, the game can find a common set of root parts and append changes when loading different tabs. It's better than having a lot of craft files for the same thing.

I guess it could detect if you're using the same subassemblies in different craft?

[Stone Blue]

1 hour ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

That would be a great QoL improvement. 

Having craft organized by type and series, so instead of having ten craft for slight variations on my Heron-class SSTO, I can have a folder for all of these. 
Honestly that would be awesome. 

Theres already a mod that does this...
But yeah, adding to stock would be good...