Michael Collins Memorial - KSP2 Poll

[Dr. Kerbal]

Recently Michael Collins died at age 90. He was a NASA astronaut that fly around the moon with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. Recently a buzz has been going around the Kerbal Space Program community that he should be remembered with an Easter Egg and a small ship orbing the Mun.  However, I think KSP2 should have something to memorialize him too. I'm not sure if anyone would want this put that's what the poll is for.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Dr. Kerbal

[SunlitZelkova]

If there is a Neil Armstrong one on the surface of the Mun, it would only make sense to have something in orbit for Collins.

[MechBFP]

Not a memorial as it isn't lore friendly. A subtle reference, something like the "stayputnik" would be more appropriate in my opinion.

[Starhelperdude]

23 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Not a memorial as it isn't lore friendly. A subtle reference, something like the "stayputnik" would be more appropriate in my opinion.

um there is a neil armstrong memorial that was added after his death in ksp1, located on the mun

[MechBFP]

44 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

um there is a neil armstrong memorial that was added after his death in ksp1, located on the mun

And? I don’t like that either. I don’t like 4th wall breaking references in games unless they are a comedy game. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by MechBFP

[Starhelperdude]

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

And? I don’t like that either. I don’t like 4th wall breaking references in games unless they are a comedy game. 

then just remove most easter eggs 

[Spaceman.Spiff]

@Nate Simpson Are you guys considering and easter egg/ memorial to those who have been a member of space programs?

[MechBFP]

16 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

then just remove most easter eggs 

Depends on the context. A memorial that shows Earth years, no thanks. A command module with an 11 on it, no problem. 

[Dr. Kerbal]

Im not sure. But would you consider adding this in KSP2 @Nate Simpson, @KSPStar, and @Intercept Games???

Edited May 1, 2021 by Dr. Kerbal

[pandaman]

Perhaps naming terrain features after such notable people would make more sense rather than a large artificial structure.

Arnstrong Crater,  Collins Crater etc.

Perhaps an anomaly (similar to the 'curiosity cam' on Duna) to mark the landing site instead of the memorial used in KSP1.  Like a half buried descent stage.

[Minmus Taster]

6 hours ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

Im not sure. But would you consider adding this in KSP2 @Nate Simpson, @KSPStar, and @Intercept Games???

That would be a very nice touch if you could squeez that in.

And @MechBFP easter eggs are not meant to fit into some grand plot, their meant to be strange, out of place, and sometimes funny.

[MechBFP]

10 minutes ago, Minmus Taster said:

That would be a very nice touch if you could squeez that in.

And @MechBFP easter eggs are not meant to fit into some grand plot, their meant to be strange, out of place, and sometimes funny.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg_(media)
 

In any case I am not sure how making subtle references instead of blatantly obvious ones suddenly makes them “fit into some grand plot”. You are going to need to clarify that. 

[Minmus Taster]

55 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg_(media)
 

In any case I am not sure how making subtle references instead of blatantly obvious ones suddenly makes them “fit into some grand plot”. You are going to need to clarify that. 

Well the message is meant to be taken with a grain of salt, at least in games like KSP, that's what I meant.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Minmus Taster

[Bej Kerman]

12 hours ago, MechBFP said:

13 hours ago, Starhelperdude said:

um there is a neil armstrong memorial that was added after his death in ksp1, located on the mun

And? I don’t like that either. I don’t like 4th wall breaking references in games unless they are a comedy game.

A guy died and we want a memorial for this important person in a very popular and relevant game, but I suppose whatever lore KSP has would be more important ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MechBFP]

21 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

A guy died and we want a memorial for this important person in a very popular and relevant game, but I suppose whatever lore KSP has would be more important ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You want.

My preference is a subtle reference. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by MechBFP

[Starhelperdude]

ksp doesn't even have THAT lore, we as players should make lore ourselves if we want

[Spaceman.Spiff]

31 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

You want.

My preference is a subtle reference. 

I don’t know what you think subtle means, but the current memorial is very subtle given that it is small and on a relatively large celestial body 

I have tried lookin for it in the past, but I have not yet found it. I thinks it’s more than subtle enough  

 

13 hours ago, MechBFP said:

And? I don’t like that either. I don’t like 4th wall breaking references in games unless they are a comedy game. 

 

[MechBFP]

10 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

I don’t know what you think subtle means, but the current memorial is very subtle given that it is small and on a relatively large celestial body 

I have tried lookin for it in the past, but I have not yet found it. I thinks it’s more than subtle enough  

 

 

The difference is the interpretation by the player if they see it. 
If a player who knows nothing about astronauts finds the memorial they are immediately aware it is an out of universe/lore reference (I can’t remember the correct term used to describe this), even if they don’t understand the reference itself.

A subtle reference is something that a player who knows the reference will get, but the players who don’t will be unaware there was a reference shown to them at all.

[Bej Kerman]

21 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

40 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

I don’t know what you think subtle means, but the current memorial is very subtle given that it is small and on a relatively large celestial body 

I have tried lookin for it in the past, but I have not yet found it. I thinks it’s more than subtle enough  

The difference is the interpretation by the player if they see it. 
If a player who knows nothing about astronauts finds the memorial they are immediately aware it is an out of universe/lore reference (I can’t remember the correct term used to describe this), even if they don’t understand the reference itself.

A subtle reference is something that a player who knows the reference will get, but the players who don’t will be unaware there was a reference shown to them at all.

We just want a memorial for a very important person who died, I am completely incapable of seeing why lore is more important than this. Just why!? This isn't a debate on why some minor thing should be canon or non-canon, this is a memorial for someone unappreciated who passed away. Lore is insignificant here.

"If a player who knows nothing about astronauts" If you're dedicated to KSP enough to know how to locate easter eggs, then not knowing much about astronauts is a tiny possibility that doesn't need to be considered.

[MechBFP]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

We just want a memorial for a very important person who died, I am completely incapable of seeing why lore is more important than this. Just why!? This isn't a debate on why some minor thing should be canon or non-canon, this is a memorial for someone unappreciated who passed away. Lore is insignificant here.

"If a player who knows nothing about astronauts" If you're dedicated to KSP enough to know how to locate easter eggs, then not knowing much about astronauts is a tiny possibility that doesn't need to be considered.

Let’s just go full bore then and put an entire graveyard beside KSC full of real life figures who worked in various space programs.

I mean that is what you want, right?

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

4 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

We just want a memorial for a very important person who died, I am completely incapable of seeing why lore is more important than this. Just why!? This isn't a debate on why some minor thing should be canon or non-canon, this is a memorial for someone unappreciated who passed away. Lore is insignificant here.

"If a player who knows nothing about astronauts" If you're dedicated to KSP enough to know how to locate easter eggs, then not knowing much about astronauts is a tiny possibility that doesn't need to be considered.

Let’s just go full bore then and put an entire graveyard beside KSC full of real life figures who worked in various space programs.

I mean that is what you want, right?

Strawman fallacy. I want to stress that whatever lore and intact 4th wall you're clinging to really, really doesn't matter when this easter egg is gonna be obscure to 98% of players.

[MechBFP]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

Strawman fallacy. I want to stress that whatever lore and intact 4th wall you're clinging to really, really doesn't matter when this easter egg is gonna be obscure to 98% of players.

Nah, you are just drawing an arbitrary line in the sand where you don't consider it too "on the nose".

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, MechBFP said:

2 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Strawman fallacy. I want to stress that whatever lore and intact 4th wall you're clinging to really, really doesn't matter when this easter egg is gonna be obscure to 98% of players.

Nah, you are just drawing an arbitrary line in the sand where you don't consider it too "on the nose".

Well, I don't want to waste any more time arguing. Clearly KSP's worthless lore is more important than the devs recognising Collins.

[razark]

Throwing in a reference to every astronaut who deserves it would just overly clutter the game.

 

Also, Why Collins?  What did he do to earn recognition?  Why not John Young, instead?

[Kerminator K-100]

This may be an unpopular opinion but I vote no. I'm sorry if my following post offends anyone.

Here is my reasoning.

Like @razark said, there shouldn't be a memorial to every astronaut. While Michael Collins is pretty cool and I'm upset about his death, he wasn't the first to orbit the Moon (nor was he the first to orbit solo ) and didn't even go to the surface. I'm not even a big fan of the Neil Armstrong memorial because it just feels out of place. And it excludes Buzz Aldrin and the other Apollo astronauts which seemed unfair to me.

Which is my second point. Making a Michael Collins specific memorial excludes every other astronaut and cosmonaut. Other people did much more amazing stuff, like Yuri Gagarin or Alan Shephard. Also the crew's who died should be remembered, Soyuz 11, Challenger, Columbia, Apollo 1, and the ones who almost died, like the crew of Apollo 13. And this is an international game, meaning other countries will be excluded. KSP is full of NASA references and a few ROSCOSMOS and ESA references but has no recognition for JAXA, or any other agency. What they should do instead is have a big memorial for all astronauts, but make it subtle or a menu Easter Egg or a loading screen tip (Thanking astronauts).

5 hours ago, pandaman said:

Perhaps naming terrain features after such notable people would make more sense rather than a large artificial structure.

Yeah I also like this idea, like the Degrasse Sea on Laythe.

 

5 hours ago, Minmus Taster said:

And @MechBFP easter eggs are not meant to fit into some grand plot, their meant to be strange, out of place, and sometimes funny.

2 hours ago, Starhelperdude said:

ksp doesn't even have THAT lore, we as players should make lore ourselves if we want

Spoiler

(From the wiki because I couldn't find the story)

In a forum post from late 2013,^[1] Squad member Jeff C.(NovaSilisko) described an idea he had for connecting many easter eggs into a story concerning a civilization which predated the Kerbals. Experiments with interstellar travel resulted in the homeworld of this "precursor civilization" being flung out into an extremely distant orbit. Before they froze to death, they launched monoliths and other messages onto many planets and moons in hopes of seeding intelligent life. Instead, they created Kerbals, not-so-intelligent life.

The planet would not show up in any map and would be too distant to be observed with a telescope, making locating it by chance nearly impossible. However, players would be able to find transmitters beaming out SSTV signals on various bodies, each one of which would provide part of the orbital parameters necessary to locate it. The planet would be a bit smaller than Kerbin, covered in ruined cities and frozen oceans, and perpetually in twilight due to being so far from Kerbol.

The only element of this narrative which made it into the game is the SSTV transmitter on Duna, which transmits an image originally intended to depict 4 members of the precursor civilization standing on their homeworld, with the logo of their government. Had the narrative story been completed, it would also have contained part of the orbital parameters. Because the story was never implemented into the game, this explanation for the SSTV signal's imagery is arguably non-canon.^[2]

 

 

Also, @Dr. Kerbal can you please stop making your polls public? I like the ability to remain anonymous when I vote on stuff.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Kerminator K-100