How about maneuver nodes for "planets", I know, but hear me out...

[DBowman]

An easy way to plan Mun mission is to be in LKO, drop a maneuver node, drag the prograde till the propagated orbit kisses the Mun orbit, then drag it forward in time until it gets a Mun encounter, and fiddle it to tune. Using this method you can easily plan even a free return "by the seat of your pants".

You cannot use the same method for interplanetary transfers, but if you gave some maneuver node behaviors to celestial bodies it would be that easy. Select Kerbin, drop a node, prograde till it kisses Duna orbit, ... At the end you'd have a time for a transfer window, and a delta-v (from heliocentric orbit, so you have to adjust somewhat, it's a guide). You can even seat of the pants the adjustment if you could set a vehicle node time to match the Kerbin node transfer, fine drag it to be at midnight (for outer bodies), set the prograde to the Kerbin node value, and tweak it down from there.

Even "ghost nodes" make sense; drop a node in LKO and do the above to do preplanning without a vehicle, if you later rendezvous with the ghost node you know you are in phase to burn at the right place at the right time. (the node back propagates for the encounter detection) 

Reusing the concepts and code would deliver a lot of power for the players. This is really nothing more than we have now, just accessible in a new context.

[The Aziz]

All you need really is ejection angle. Something we have in Transfer Window Planner btw. Which should be one of the tools implemented into the game if the devs want the game to be a full experience.

[mattinoz]

So the node is still for the craft but at a larger map scale allows it to be drag to anywhere along the parent body orbit?

I like it, better than transfer window planner which can be hit and miss as it's working remote from the game system that is actually tracking the paths. Not sure about anyone else it has always been more miss than hit for me. 

Would think something visual as well as numerical like a solar scale node could be would be more engaging to more players. 

[The Aziz]

22 minutes ago, mattinoz said:

better than transfer window planner which can be hit and miss as it's working remote from the game system that is actually tracking the paths.

I assume you're using the online one, not the mod?

[DBowman]

@The Aziz Window planners and porkchops etc. are great, and I'm not saying don't add them. But the players will already know the maneuver node mechanic, so why not make it a little more general to expand it's utility? If I recall right, dragging the node also shows you celestial body positions  at that time, so players would get a visceral appreciation of the synodics rather than magic numbers dropping out of an oracle.

@mattinoz I don't think a node has to be bound to a vehicle, it's natural to think "if I was in the solar orbit of the planet what would happen if I burned like this". Also orphan/ghost nodes are useful, I often found myself playing around with nodes for satellites to plan trajectories for ships, why not just skip the middle man and drop an orphan node. The ability to use a rendezvous to see you are in phase to burn is actually pretty useful.

[mcwaffles2003]

1 hour ago, DBowman said:

 I don't think a node has to be bound to a vehicle, it's natural to think "if I was in the solar orbit of the planet what would happen if I burned like this". Also orphan/ghost nodes are useful, I often found myself playing around with nodes for satellites to plan trajectories for ships, why not just skip the middle man and drop an orphan node. The ability to use a rendezvous to see you are in phase to burn is actually pretty useful.

I love this idea, maybe even have ways to establish routes like space highways from one ghost orbit to another and as ships fall into these ghost orbits they can be offered a copy as a mission plan to attribute to the ship kind of like Aldrin cyclers

Spoiler

 

[OHara]

KSP1 players liked this idea enough to suggested it several times and eventually make a mod, Planning Node, that does this.

Pork chop plots, like in Transfer Window Planner, are great for detailed planning by space agency, but the fun bit of playing with orbital mechanics is hidden in the underlying code.   Setting a Planning Node shows why the pork chop plots have minima at the transfer windows (when just a little boost parallel to the lower planet's orbit  brings a trajectory that gently meets the upper planet's orbit). 

Then from low Kerbin orbit, aiming to meet the trajectory created by the Planning Node replaces the step of placing your ejection maneuver node at the 'ejection angle' given by the porkchop-plot software (which is different to the similarly named 'ejection angle' shown in the new-with-1.7 maneuver panel).

The player can see that the low-orbit ejection burn to meet the planned trajectory, has less delta-v than the sum of a minimal escape burn plus the Planning Node, giving a way to easily see the Oberth effect.

Manuever nodes on planetary orbits seem to fit the stated goals of KSP2 as a game, way better than an in-game pork chop plotter to show transfer windows.

[DBowman]

13 hours ago, OHara said:

KSP1 players liked this idea enough to suggested it several times and eventually make a mod, Planning Node, that does this.

Fantastic! thanks for sharing that.

[HebaruSan]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:28 AM, DBowman said:

Reusing the concepts and code would deliver a lot of power for the players. This is really nothing more than we have now, just accessible in a new context.

Absolutely! I (obviously) strongly agree that this would be a great benefit to the stock game. No big table of numbers, no buttons that play the game for you, just a familiar/standard UI widget that lets you plot your own encounters and makes it as easy as possible to execute them later.

Once it was written, using Planning Node gave me a better understanding of how to do transfers when plane changes are involved. I've previously posted a mathematical near-proof that it can't be done without a giant burn at the AN/DN when I was trying to figure it out for Astrogator, but if you loosen a few of the assumptions ever so slightly, the mysteries of single-burn transfers are revealed. It turns into a kind of fun optimization puzzle.

[Incarnation of Chaos]

Just make kerbal alarm clock stock....no other nodes required other than ones you've already used. No needing to know ejection angles, you just plug in the body and wait for the approach.

 

[mattinoz]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:13 AM, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Just make kerbal alarm clock stock....no other nodes required other than ones you've already used. No needing to know ejection angles, you just plug in the body and wait for the approach.

 

That doesn't allow to burns outside ideal Hofmanns transfer and we know KSP 2 will have engines capable of some very high speed transfers. 

[Incarnation of Chaos]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:37 AM, mattinoz said:

That doesn't allow to burns outside ideal Hofmanns transfer and we know KSP 2 will have engines capable of some very high speed transfers. 

Which KSP2 devs already said they'd have tools for since the standard node system couldn't handle them at all.