1.12's Rotating Docking Ports Cause Drift Similar to the Robotics

[Anth]

Bug #28075: New Docking Ports are causing drift similar to robotics. - Kerbal Space Program - Squad Bugtracker

Add some love to this bug report please. (i.e. upvote)

My investigation has concluded that if a docking port is attached in 1.12 the entire craft will now suffer drift. 

To get almost the same result with robotics all I would need to do is make a robotic part the root part

[peteletroll]

I noticed yesterday. Too bad 

I tried setting canRotate to false with a MM patch, but there's drift anyway...

Edited July 24, 2021 by peteletroll
More info

[KerikBalm]

They are supposedly going to add a lock feature in the next patch. Iirc, locked robotic parts stop functioning as robotic parts... I think this means that locked docking ports and robotic parts won't cause drift.

I will always have my ports locked in place.

Since they essentially added a robotic part to vanilla KSP, it would be just great if they could fix the robotic drift bug in the last patch.

It really can be crippling for long term career saves, if you decide to make a key craft use robotics

[Anth]

@KerikBalmI created a mod to prove drift with robotics.

Look to orgPos/orgRot/servoTransformPos/servoTransformRot comparing the two pictures above. (these are coordinates of the parts within the craft)

quicksave and the numbers update and save the updated values into the persistent file/quicksave if they are a part of a robotic branch (I know I went and looked to compare)

The 2 Modular Girder Segment XL  on the left do not change at all. 

The two 3PT Telescoping Hydraulic Cylinders and the Large Holding Tank ALL change their numbers. This is what causes the drift.

NOTE: The two robotic parts are both locked. But the drift remains. Locking doesn't fix drift. It might reduce it but eventually this craft is going to start drooping more and more on the right side each time the scene is reloaded.

 

Heres the same craft with QuickSaving/QuickLoading 5 or so times and the result with robotics

Note how the numbers on the left for the Modular Girder Segment XL havent changed at all.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Anth12

[Anth]

Ok so this was about rotating docking ports causing drift. Here is what this  craft looked like in the SPH

 

Now what it looks like after Launching and then Quick Saving and Loading it again

This is permanently like this now, but...here's  one more picture to show that all the coordinates of this craft are changing

 This is worse than robotic drift because now all the parts are prone to the drift.

Docking port drift isn't quite as extreme between parts that haven't got docking ports attached, but all parts are still affected.

Eventually more complicated crafts are going to be affected.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Anth12

[KerikBalm]

Ughhhhh, they *need* to fix robotic drift, now that it applies to any craft with docking ports.

This will kill most of my saves with time.  

[Anth]

I made a suggestion in the bug tracker to have 2 variants of the docking ports. The old docking ports and the new.

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/28270

I don't think the robotic drift will ever be fixed, which means that the docking port drift will never be fixed, the easy fix is to have the older docking port as a variant. 

 

For me 1.12 is a write off if the rotational docking port drift isn't fixed. 

If it stays in the game then I am going back to 1.11.2 permanently.

The biggest loss going back is eva construction not working for bigger parts

[leopardenthusiast]

Having the old docking ports as a variant would be decent, but that still means that any mod that uses the stock docking port rotation function is effectively unusable.  The only proper solution I see is having some way to *completely* disable it - not just lock the rotation of the docking port, but prevent the rotation function from coming into play in the first place.  Like peteletroll, I considered using a modulemanager patch, but even commenting everything related to the rotation function out of a docking port's config file didn't help me.  Maybe a plugin could do it?

[KerikBalm]

On 7/25/2021 at 4:33 AM, Anth12 said:

This is worse than robotic drift because now all the parts are prone to the drift.

Docking port drift isn't quite as extreme between parts that haven't got docking ports attached, but all parts are still affected.

Does this occur even in craft with no robotics and no docking ports?

Are you saying that parts with no docking port/robotics attached suffer drift now if there is a robotic part/docking port anywhere on the craft? are you saying that parts with suffer drift now even if there is no robotic part/docking port anywhere on the craft?

This is a critical bug, and one that cannot be left unaddressed.

They can't have the 2nd to last update of the game kill all long term saves, and leave it like that!

[Anth]

There is no drift if there is no docking port or robotic part attached.

If Squad never added the new docking ports then we would just have parts act like 1.11.2.

My advice is to give up on thinking that the robotic drift will ever be fixed. I have been told its a bug that is extremely difficult to fix. Too difficult to be able to commit resources too.

I will play 1.12.2 for doing bug reports and seeing how I can break the ground anchor.

Then I am ditching 1.12 and going back to 1.11.2

1.12 is dud...get used to it.

 

 

 

[KerikBalm]

My question would then be if we can take some 1.12 files and add them to a 1.11 install, and thus at least have 1.11 with the planet overhauls.

Regarding fixing the bug... if you say so that it is extremely difficult to fix, but as far as I can tell, all that is needed is to have reference values for part positions that do not change.

I could accept robotic drift in robotic parts, because  of the cost:benefit ratio.

The added benefit was so great, and I could mitigate the effects by only relying sparingly on robotic parts, and having them mostly get saved when in zero G/ low G situations, where the drift occurs really slowly - craft in saves that didn't take measures to mitigate drift (because they were launched before I knew it was a thing), when drift is too severe, I launch a new one, and then edit save files to swap it out with the old one. This is only a couple ships... The cost(negative effects) could be kept fairly low.

Now... docking port rotation is another situation entirely. Unlike robotics, docking ports are on almost every craft I launch. I dock modules of modular surface bases together... no way of avoiding high gravity there. My massive reusable cargo planes and rockets require redocking on the ground... The cost is now enourmous.

The benefit? not having to redock a ship to get a pretty alignment?! The cost:benefit ratio here sucks.

If they can't fix robotic drift, then they should absolutely revert the docking port changes. This is terrible.

[Anth]

The most I tried was just copying the old models folder from 1.11.2 into the new models folder of 1.12.1. It didnt work.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Anth12

[Anth]

Oh. By the way when I made the mod this year to show the part coordinates,

I added some code that copied the crafts part coordinates on loading a scene. Then when it saved it rewrote that information back in. 

It worked reasonably well when it was at KSC on the ground. But was more warped in orbit. If it had been that easy I think Squad would have done that.

[KerikBalm]

I wish squad would chime in on this.

I don't understand how they can make the claw, which allows free pivoting/rotation, work just fine, yet they can do rotation of docking ports

[Serenity]

58 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

I wish squad would chime in on this.

I don't understand how they can make the claw, which allows free pivoting/rotation, work just fine, yet they can do rotation of docking ports

I hope they fix it but its going to be so difficult.Maybe just revert to the older docking ports as you said, or at least give us the option to choose both versions.

I don't know much but it doesn't seem that the klaw and robotics use any similar function but might be wrong.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Serenity

[KerikBalm]

16 minutes ago, Serenity said:

I don't know much but it doesn't seem that the klaw and robotics use any similar function but might be wrong.

Indeed, one causes drift, the other doesn't, so clearly there is a functional difference between the two.

Yet they both allow parts to rotate relative to one another (unlike cargo ramps for instance, which don't allow a separate part to move with the ramp).

I think if I want to keep using 1.12, and if htey don't fix it, I may have to keep a file for each craft, and cut and paste the original file from time to time.

I really don't understand why it can't keep data on the original position, and not change that data. Keep the original position data, and if you also need to keep data on how much a part is extended/rotated/displaced, just have an option on the robotics/craft to reurn all parts to original/default position.

It can't be hard to store the original position, I can do it with a text file.

If they can't find an option better than my text file copying and pasting, then its pretty sad.

This really should have been fixed before release of breaking ground.

[Serenity]

16 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

It can't be hard to store the original position, I can do it with a text file.

If i had to guess its a Unity Engine problem/limitation so they basically trying to work around that but doing this with docking ports seems so risky, i don't get it...

especially since we know robotics drift problem for a while now.

Hopefully they revert or fix it for good...i would prefer the first option myself or at least gives us both variants of docking ports.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Serenity

[Dientus]

44 minutes ago, Serenity said:

Hopefully they revert or fix it for good...i would prefer the first option myself or at least gives us both variants of docking ports

At this point I tend to agree. Fix it, revert back, give a choice.

 

[cfds]

Sometimes I wonder if the only job of Squad QA is to make sure that the launcher.exe is in the installer package...

[heli]

Hello, after a long search I finally found my problem -> Drift bug ... as a German with poor knowledge of English it is always difficult to find out;)
I have several ships with robotic parts where the parts are constantly drifting  (I haven't tried 1.12 yet, but if it is with the docking ports then it's good night.
Is there any news on this topic, has it been resolved?
I also have various drift problems with EVA parts with KIS

[modus]

@helicheck add on releases, top post.

 

[Rakete]

7 hours ago, heli said:

Hello, after a long search I finally found my problem -> Drift bug ... as a German with poor knowledge of English it is always difficult to find out;)
I have several ships with robotic parts where the parts are constantly drifting  (I haven't tried 1.12 yet, but if it is with the docking ports then it's good night.
Is there any news on this topic, has it been resolved?
I also have various drift problems with EVA parts with KIS

Hi there, there is a mod in the Add-on-thread of this forum. It is made by JPLRepo, one of the KSP-Devs.

 

In German:

Hallo, fürs Driftproblem gibts eine Mod von JPLRepo, einem KSP-Entwickler. Er meinte, das sei ein Fix, bis es im Spiel selbst gefixt wird. Nur weiß leider keiner, wann eine 1.12.3 kommt. Wenn du aber so wie ich eine stark gemoddete Installation hast, hilft dir der Flicken nur bedingt, da die Reparatur-Mod von anderen Mods, die Dockingports mitbringen, aktiv eingebunden werden muss. Und da nicht klar ist, ob und wann der Fix direkt in Form einer neuen Minor-Version von KSP kommt, zögern natürlich die Modder, sich die Arbeit zu machen, die Reparaturmod einzubinden - denn schließlich lebt sie vermutlich nur bis zum Fix in KSP selbst. Bisher bin ich auf 1.11.2 zurück gegangen, da dort die Dockingports nicht driften. Ich hoffe darauf, dass Squad mal Farbe bekennt und sagt, ob 1.12.3 bald kommt, oder darauf, dass den Moddern der Geduldsfaden reißt und sie die Fix-Mod einbinden.

Was Robotikteile betrifft: die driften auch mit dem Fix... aber die drifteten auch schon vor 1.12... Da müsste mal grundsätzlich an die Ursache ran gegangen werden.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Rakete

[KerikBalm]

On 8/19/2021 at 11:02 PM, Rakete said:

Hi there, there is a mod in the Add-on-thread of this forum. It is made by JPLRepo, one of the KSP-Devs.

Link to the mod, what does it do?

[Anth]

 

[tg626]

Wonderful...  And as a result of a feature that I at least had zero interest in.

I was fine with simply docking correctly.