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Show and Tell - Gurdamma


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On 7/13/2021 at 5:57 PM, mcwaffles2003 said:

I get this, but there is a vast difference in what is happening in KSP 2 from the other games that were mentioned. NMS and ED didn't get an artist curating and designing fine details of all the individual planet surfaces, yet this is what we are getting with KSP 2.

You said it yourself, the difference is curation. It's still just procedural generation beneath the curation. It's still just the same stuff as ED, NMS and SE. Going back to the point, KSP 2 isn't breaking any new grounds.

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2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

You said it yourself, the difference is curation. It's still just procedural generation beneath the curation. It's still just the same stuff as ED, NMS and SE. Going back to the point, KSP 2 isn't breaking any new grounds.

Dude... None of those games are filled with curated worlds...

So is your overall argument that the KSP 2 devs didn't invent procedural generation so nothing about this is new or ground breaking? That's as lame of an argument as saying "well any computer game is made with code so there hasn't been a new game since 1962's Spacewar..."

Edited by mcwaffles2003
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47 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

So is your overall argument that the KSP 2 devs didn't invent procedural generation so nothing about this is new or ground breaking?

They curated some procedural generation, that isn't new or exciting.

48 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

"well any computer game is made with code so there hasn't been a new game since 1962's Spacewar..."

That's a massive leap in logic, it's more like saying that other games have also done procedural generation - just that the curation is done though having players share their finds instead.

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2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

That's a massive leap in logic, it's more like saying that other games have also done procedural generation - just that the curation is done though having players share their finds instead.

No more of a leap than the argument you've presented. There's an obvious difference between randomly procedurally generating maps and utilizing procedural generation to fill in areas between what you've intentionally created then refining the procedurally generated terrain... You have shown no examples of any games that do this, none the less to a quality anywhere near what the devs have shown thus far.

Either you're intentional neglecting this obvious fact or you are just beyond reason. Either way I don't understand why you've gone out of your way to contradict someone's statement about KSP 2's achievements and want to diminish what the dev's have created. I think continuing would be a mistake so with this I will take my leave from our discussion.

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10 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

utilizing procedural generation to fill in areas between what you've intentionally created then refining the procedurally generated terrain...

It isn't any more impressive than what games like SE and NMS have pulled off. It's impressive. It's also not new.

10 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Either way I don't understand why you've gone out of your way to contradict someone's statement about KSP 2's achievements and want to diminish what the dev's have created.

Because this...  

"A level of detail at a scale that big is simply unheard of in gaming. Incredibly impressive work!"

this simply isn't true. Plenty of games have this detail at this scale nowadays. I'm not diminishing what the devs did, I'm simply saying other games have done this and will continue to do so. I'm simply contradicting the notion that this is level of detail is unheard of, and in truthfulness, saying that diminishes the hard work other games have gone to in order to further procedural generation. Space Engine is a passion project by a single person, and it's had levels of detail that have come close to this since 2010. It puts KSP 2 on a podium where it doesn't necessarily deserve 1st place.

10 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

I think continuing would be a mistake so with this I will take my leave from our discussion.

Same. Peace.

On 7/13/2021 at 5:57 PM, mcwaffles2003 said:
On 7/13/2021 at 4:28 PM, Pthigrivi said:

The other thing Im really interested in is how the functional topography will work in terms of resource availability, especially after seeing the new wind and geothermal generators. I'd personally be fine with locking things in a little tighter and not fully randomizing, so there was some more predictable relationship between resource values and geographic features. Having a dynamic of overlaying pros and cons to various landing and colony locations would really bring these rocks alive.

This would be an awesome detail to the game and I'm also hoping that resource deposition is sensible in matching its environment though hopefully not being cartoonishly obvious so we have to still probe and prospect with caution.

I do fully agree there, it would bring some strategy to KSP 2 if things like this were knitted together. Mountain bases on Kerbin, seasides, rivers canyons, etc. could have different weather to the plains elsewhere, for instance.

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1 hour ago, EchoEkhi said:

If I recall correctly, this is the only celestial body with three syllables, so there must be something special about it, right?

Rask, Rusk, Char, Puff,  are 1 syllable

Glumo, Ovin, Merbel, are all 2 syllables

Gurdamma is 3 syllables...

It's moon's name is unknown 

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@KSPStar

Revisiting this after a bit of reflection - and I agree with the poster above who suggested that you need signs of drainage and flow.  The oldest craters should be weathered and there should be a erosion evident in all but the most recent craters. 

If the planet is this wet and has an atmosphere - only the newest of the craters should be sharply defined 

 

Aside from that quibble - the artwork is gorgeous! 

Edited by JoeSchmuckatelli
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On 7/15/2021 at 11:28 AM, PlutoISaPlanet said:

Rask, Rusk, Char, Puff,  are 1 syllable

Glumo, Ovin, Merbel, are all 2 syllables

Gurdamma is 3 syllables...

It's moon's name is unknown 

Moho - two syllable

Eve - one syllable

Kerbin -  two syllable

Duna - two syllable

Ike - one syllable

Dres - one syllable

Jool - one syllable

Laythe - two syllable

Vall - one syllable

Tylo - two syllable

Bop - one syllable

Pol - one syllable

Eeloo - two syllable

 

IDK what would be so special about it having 3 syllables. The Real life planets have usually 2-3 syllables, Mars and Earth being a one syllable.

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On 7/9/2021 at 11:42 AM, Nate Simpson said:

The story we're trying to tell with Gurdamma is that it's similar to Earth during the Hadean Eon, relatively shortly after the formation of the Moon. I was actually pretty surprised myself how close the Moon was immediately after its formation: 16 times larger in the sky than today, and just a whisker beyond the Roche limit! To get a sense of how close, check out image 3 in this sequence: https://www.lpi.usra.edu/exploration/training/illustrations/earthMoon/

We are still making adjustments to the distance of Gurdamma's moon, but it'll still be both close and fast-orbiting (and Gurdamma has a very short day). 

Different star system. :)

 

My reading indicates that Rings exist because they consist of literaly the smallest posible bodies that can exist Within the Roche limmit that would not be pulled apart by gravity over time. Bassicaly some modles seem to indicate that the proto moon needs to form and stay outside of the Roch limmit, while other simulations indicates that a shepard moonlet would slowly kick itself out of the roche limmit and then start accumulating mass while thoes acreations would "Gravity tracktor" itself away from the earth. and then the existing hammer throw would countinue to push it out.

Granted my information may be dated. 

On 7/9/2021 at 12:46 PM, Nate Simpson said:

Correct!

ok then you have a tiny problem, if thats suposed to be the earth moon anolog the Proto moon is going to need more mass than a Roche limmit ring can hold by the moddles I saw,  Basicaly at that stage the planet would be a Kesler syndrome waiting to happen as >290%. of the moons current mass would still be in orbit around earth at that stage (most of its mass would be ejected either by impacting earth or being tossed out of earth orbit by Gravitational interactions with other debree, the proto moon. Ranted Kerbal Scaleing and Rule of Kool.

 

One last thing

Smallest ring we currently know is 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rings_of_Chariklo

 

Quote

As the smallest known celestial body with its own ring system, Chariklo and its rings are the first to have been fully simulated by numerically solving the N-body problem.[13] The assumptions made included the planetoid and ring particles being spherical, and all particles having equal radii between 2.5 and 10 m. Depending on parameters, the simulations[clarification needed] involved between 21 million and 345 million particles interacting with each other through gravity and collisions. The goal of the simulations was to assess under what conditions the rings remain stable; that is, do not cluster into few bigger bodies.

The first conclusion coming from the simulations is that the density of Chariklo has to be bigger than that of the ring matter, just in order to maintain them in orbit. Secondarily, for all tested ring particle radii and ring spatial densities, the rings did cluster in relatively short time scales. The authors suggest three main explanations:

  1. the ring particles are much smaller, on the order of 1 cm, than assumed in the simulations
  2. the rings are very young (below 100 years)
  3. there's a relatively massive, undetected as of yet, body in the system, which acts as a shepherd moon

They additionally noted that the effects of some of the assumptions, for instance complete absence of eccentricity of the rings, have not been evaluated.[13]

 

Edited by [email protected]
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8 hours ago, Minmus Taster said:

https://www.space.com/first-moon-forming-exoplanet-disc-found

Hey so THIS is where the universe gets it's inspiration!

Yes! We found an exo moon!

 

Maybe the KSP2 team could use this inspiration to make a young star system. 

Edited by Dr. Kerbal
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On 7/9/2021 at 3:04 PM, Nate Simpson said:

Gurdamma is comparable to Kerbin in scale. The Kerbolar planets are the same scale as in KSP1, and we are keeping to the 1/10 rule for new celestial bodies.

 

If you're asking "will the topology be the same for all Kerbolar celestial bodies," the answer is "our artists often begin with the original KSP heightmap but sometimes make significant alterations." In at least a couple of cases, the topology has been radically altered to tell a slightly different story than the original game (if you look at how Dres has changed, you'll see a good example of this). But stuff like the shapes of Kerbin's continents has not changed too much. Of course the masses, diameters, and orbits of the Kerbolar bodies have not changed from the original game.

With the overhaul of the game engine and performance optimization. Can we at least expect a far smoother scalable performance? That is, will the KSP2 version of Realism Overhaul be possible? Could it be more "hardware friendly" than the current KSP allows?

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On 7/9/2021 at 12:43 PM, The Aziz said:

*ahem*

On 7/9/2021 at 11:53 AM, Wubslin said:

Significant alterations? Like a complete overhaul/rework of the Mohole? I can think of far cooler geology than just a cone shaped divet.

How many times... All answers you need are there (2 S&T's out of date but that's just me being lazy)

 

The linked repository doesn't seem to have any (labelled) images of Moho, so it doesn't seem particularly relevant to the question of whether the Mohole will be reworked or replaced.

On the topic of Gurdamma having a moon that's similar in scaled distance to the Moon ~4 billion years ago, it would be very cool if the tides on the planet could dramatically change the waterline of oceans and large lakes. That would make choosing landing sites and setting up colonies more interesting and challenging, but it certainly could be a feature that comes after release if it's not already planned.

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On 7/9/2021 at 11:00 AM, KSPStar said:

Gurdamma is a young terrestrial planet that's still experiencing heavy asteroid bombardment, much like Kerbin did billions of years ago. Still to come: a thick atmosphere and a very close (i.e. within the rings) moon!
 

@Nate Simpsonwhat unity asset you guys use for crater creation on the planet?

Edited by Redneck
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On 7/24/2021 at 7:07 PM, Sesshaku said:

With the overhaul of the game engine and performance optimization. Can we at least expect a far smoother scalable performance? That is, will the KSP2 version of Realism Overhaul be possible? Could it be more "hardware friendly" than the current KSP allows?

Most likely, yes. I am very happy I will be able to play this game day 1 on X box, but also very afraid of how it will perform. I just hope it will be optimized to a level where it is playable.

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55 minutes ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

Most likely, yes. I am very happy I will be able to play this game day 1 on X box, but also very afraid of how it will perform. I just hope it will be optimized to a level where it is playable.

I just hope KSP 2 wasn't dumbed down too much for these outdated consoles.

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23 minutes ago, Admiral Fluffy said:

Try asking @Nate Simpson.

He should know.

did is been done did! Yes sir!

On 7/14/2021 at 4:34 PM, mcwaffles2003 said:

Dude... None of those games are filled with curated worlds...

So is your overall argument that the KSP 2 devs didn't invent procedural generation so nothing about this is new or ground breaking? That's as lame of an argument as saying "well any computer game is made with code so there hasn't been a new game since 1962's Spacewar..."

lol well said! :fistbump:

12 hours ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

Most likely, yes. I am very happy I will be able to play this game day 1 on X box, but also very afraid of how it will perform. I just hope it will be optimized to a level where it is playable.

i hope they dont port it over to ANY console game myself! They are just asking for a bunch of needless headaches 

Edited by Redneck
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11 hours ago, Redneck said:

did is been done did! Yes sir!

lol well said! :fistbump:

i hope they dont port it over to ANY console game myself! They are just asking for a bunch of needless headaches 

Thay have been saying that this game is being built with consoles in mind, what does that mean, I honestly don't know. Just hope it is good.

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