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Steam Deck might actually support Windows Unity games pretty well out of the box. It's mostly a question of how good the CLR emulation is going to be on Proton, and it sounds like Valve has been putting a significant amount of effort into it.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that majority of gamers on Steam Deck aren't going to just pave over the Steam OS with W10/11 install instead. So long as AMD provides compatible graphics drivers, it shouldn't be a problem. So we might not see as much Linux gaming on Deck as people imagine right now.

In either case, it makes more sense for Intercept to wait until Steam Deck is out in the wild and people are actually playing games on it before committing to it one way or another. But yeah, having more games come with good Linux support would be nice.

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4 hours ago, K^2 said:

Also, I'm not entirely sure that majority of gamers on Steam Deck aren't going to just pave over the Steam OS with W10/11 install instead. So long as AMD provides compatible graphics drivers, it shouldn't be a problem. So we might not see as much Linux gaming on Deck as people imagine right now.

I think there's a threshold dictaded by how it "just works" out of the box with Linux vs how messy is to set up Windows in it.

Since the console interface is going to replace Big Picture it will still be there in Windows and the same can be said for the controls, but there are some functions that may be low level enough that it would require direct support for Windows on the Deck by Valve, like the "plug and play library on a SD card" one or the suspend/resume feature.

Maybe it won't make everyone switch to gaming on Linux, but surely is going to dispell some preconceptions about gaming on Linux and even overall PC gaming.

I can't wait to get my hands on mine, I totally want to try to replace my laptop (not just my switch) with it.

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8 minutes ago, Master39 said:

Since the console interface is going to replace Big Picture it will still be there in Windows and the same can be said for the controls, but there are some functions that may be low level enough that it would require direct support for Windows on the Deck by Valve, like the "plug and play library on a SD card" one or the suspend/resume feature.

They as much as confirmed some of this. Yeah, there will definitely be some unique functionality with Steam OS. I'm just not sure it's critical for most PC gamers. On the other hand, new people coming onto the platform might feel differently. So we'll just have to see how much of an impact that makes in OS selection.

9 minutes ago, Master39 said:

I can't wait to get my hands on mine, I totally want to try to replace my laptop (not just my switch) with it.

Yeah, it's hard to get a good ultra-portable made for US markets. They just never took off here like they did in Japan. If I can find a nice keyboard, or better yet, if someone makes a flip cover with a keyboard specifically designed for deck, I might try using it as an on-the-go PC. I was actually looking at GPD WIN 3 for this very reason, but Steam Deck completely surpasses it in every way except for on-board memory. And even with that, Valve has confirmed that they are using off-the-shelf M.2, so even if it's not designed to be user-replaced, it should be possible. It's a short form-factor, but 1TB modules in that size are available, and by the time Deck arrives, there might be 2TB versions already.

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Nothing will replace the old school hand helds. :( I'm truly excited about this. I'm waiting for a hands on review before ordering it. I'm really concerned about the battery life and replaceablity more than anything else. I'm not worried about the OS as much. If proton is a solid as Valve claims to be, I don't think it will matter if a game is made for Linux or Windows. If proton doesn't work as described, the larger storage sizes could support a multi boot system.

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1 hour ago, K^2 said:

If I can find a nice keyboard, or better yet, if someone makes a flip cover with a keyboard specifically designed for deck

In my backpack with my laptop there's always my 60% mech Keyboard and a full size mouse, I'll probably just replace the laptop with a deck and a portable monitor / Lapdock (if I can find one that doesn't cost more than it is worth).

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3 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

Nothing will replace the old school hand helds.

I don't think it's meant to. It's meant to take a bite out of that market, sure, but it's clear from price point and capabilities that they aren't going after the whole market. Just taking a bit off the top.

2 hours ago, Master39 said:

In my backpack with my laptop there's always my 60% mech Keyboard and a full size mouse

For me personally, if I'm carrying a backpack already, I can just put a full size laptop in it. I don't mind the extra weight. It's the extra bulk that I would like to avoid, and Deck does open up some options in that regard.

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8 hours ago, K^2 said:

I don't think it's meant to. It's meant to take a bite out of that market, sure, but it's clear from price point and capabilities that they aren't going after the whole market. Just taking a bit off the top.

Agreed. I'm thinking that Valve is trying to push the ultra portable PC gaming here in the States. (It seems to follow their path of their past game streaming devices.) Since most of the AMD ultra book main boards are about the same size of the Deck. It would make sense to try it, considering that there are people who puy laptops just for gaming and nothing else. 

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Valve kinda does what it wants how it wants. Steam drives so much revenue Valve doesn't need steam deck to be a success, or really be anything. 

14 hours ago, Master39 said:

In my backpack with my laptop there's always my 60% mech Keyboard and a full size mouse, I'll probably just replace the laptop with a deck and a portable monitor / Lapdock (if I can find one that doesn't cost more than it is worth).

Ow my back!!!

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, MKI said:

Ow my back!!!

I don't have to walk that much between the parking lot and the office and a 60% keyboard is quite light and portable and you can basically ignore the weight of the mouse.

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On 7/29/2021 at 7:14 PM, K^2 said:

They as much as confirmed some of this. Yeah, there will definitely be some unique functionality with Steam OS. I'm just not sure it's critical for most PC gamers. On the other hand, new people coming onto the platform might feel differently. So we'll just have to see how much of an impact that makes in OS selection.

Yeah, it's hard to get a good ultra-portable made for US markets. They just never took off here like they did in Japan. If I can find a nice keyboard, or better yet, if someone makes a flip cover with a keyboard specifically designed for deck, I might try using it as an on-the-go PC. I was actually looking at GPD WIN 3 for this very reason, but Steam Deck completely surpasses it in every way except for on-board memory. And even with that, Valve has confirmed that they are using off-the-shelf M.2, so even if it's not designed to be user-replaced, it should be possible. It's a short form-factor, but 1TB modules in that size are available, and by the time Deck arrives, there might be 2TB versions already.

Ain't that the truth.  I have a hardware graveyard of ultra-portables that I picked up in Japan over the years, juuust in case I ever need any of them again someday.  

I'm really looking forward to trying this one.   It's been years since I've had anything that I was happy with.  Due to the aforementioned unique functionality, I'm going to leave the SteamOS in place but am going to try to multiboot it (with GRUB2 if I must, depending on how  much of the multiboot functionality is available via the bios and a USB-C connected SDD if I can get it to work well enough).  These days, when I'm on the road, actually needing to boot windows is seldom necessary (I'm retired), but often helpful in certain circumstances, so I might have a bit more tolerance for some clunkiness than some do!  

BTW, this is allegedly <cough-cough> for my age 7 son, but he often needs technical help <cough-cough> of the sort that only I can provide <cough-cough>.  シ

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11 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

I just saw this and figured I would post it here. (Sorry if you find Linus annoying.)

 

Annoying or not (I don't find LTT annoying) he's done a better job in an hour and an half than IGN has done with weeks of exclusive access and hours long interviews. The others in the room with him barely managed to get anything more than what we can already find on the Steam page for the Deck.

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2 hours ago, Harry Rhodan said:

It's a horrible video and you should feel bad about posting it!

 

Because now I want one. :blush:

I did apologize. Not everyone can stand Linus or LTT. But as for posting the video, you're welcome. Looks like my helpful posting of a video with real performance information did its job. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/29/2021 at 5:18 PM, K^2 said:

Steam Deck might actually support Binbows Unity games pretty well out of the box. It's mostly a question of how good the CLR emulation is going to be on Proton, and it sounds like Valve has been putting a significant amount of effort into it.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that majority of gamers on Steam Deck aren't going to just pave over the Steam OS with W10/11 install instead. So long as AMD provides compatible graphics drivers, it shouldn't be a problem. So we might not see as much Linux gaming on Deck as people imagine right now.

In either case, it makes more sense for Intercept to wait until Steam Deck is out in the wild and people are actually playing games on it before committing to it one way or another. But yeah, having more games come with good Linux support would be nice.

I'm pretty sure the people buying it as a more powerful switch will leave SteamOS on it

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  • 2 weeks later...

I honestly don't really see the point of the steam deck. Especially for a game like KSP 2.

For one thing, KSP 2 is ALWAYS going to encourage you to build ever bigger craft to accomplish ever bigger goals. Without EVERY SINGLE TYPE of part having several differently sized versions, you're going to run into issues with part count and performance.

And on steam deck, since it's portable, and has to worry about having a decent gaming endurance on JUST the battery, performance will necessarily be limited, which is exactly what KSP 2 does NOT need.

So I don't really see KSP 2 coming to Steam Deck any time soon. It will probably come much later, with a port that has similar (harsh) limits as the console versions of KSP have, but thankfully it won't have the limitations of an overly restrictive "validation" process that puts a serious damper on any thought of having bugs get fixed "quickly", which is the case for console versions of KSP right now.

EDIT:
Basically, when I think of portable gaming, I drop any preconceptions of hope for being able to have the same gaming experience on a console as I have on PC (Despite running a version of Linux, and being based on PC (laptop) hardware, the Steam Deck is a console, and it's also just as impossible to upgrade in any meaningful way as a console or laptop).
I never buy gaming laptops because they're destined to become obsolete quickly, whereas with a PC you can replace the graphics card every 2-5 years and stay relatively competitive for likely around 10 years. The whole "but it's portable" thing doesn't really come into play with me either, because if I wanted a "portable PC" I'd build myself a nice small-form-factor ACTUAL PC with components I can actually make choices about regarding "is it time to upgrade or not" without having to throw the WHOLE DEVICE in the hardware graveyard like what happens with a gaming laptop. Yes, you can often replace/upgrade the RAM and HDD/SSD on most laptops. However, those aren't really the parts that will limit your performance inside 99% of games made these days. The components that limit you in games are the CPU and GPU, and maybe the RAM (but only if you don't have enough). Even if a gaming laptop is made that has a graphics card made to fit into a socket, the problem becomes that because it needed to go in a laptop it uses some funky proprietary form factor that as far as you (who owns said laptop) is concerned it might as well be soldered in for all the good that socket does you, because literally nobody makes graphics cards of that form factor other than the graphics card that's already IN your laptop, so there is STILL no upgrade potential.

I'll stick with packing my Nintendo Switch and Tablet when I go on vacations, the tablet has a fantastic screen to watch movies and videos and Twitch streams on, and the Switch has a whole lot of good games on it (tho I do avoid playing it when I'm not on vacation so that I don't run thru all the games on it). 512GB microSD cards in both ensures that I shouldn't ever run out of content even if I can't get a WiFi connection (tho I do tend to make sure I go to spots with internet connection available).

Edited by SciMan
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11 hours ago, SciMan said:

So I don't really see KSP 2 coming to Steam Deck any time soon. It will probably come much later, with a port that has similar (harsh) limits as the console versions of KSP have, but thankfully it won't have the limitations of an overly restrictive "validation" process that puts a serious damper on any thought of having bugs get fixed "quickly", which is the case for console versions of KSP right now.

Steam Deck is not a console, it's a PC. They don't have to port it or make hard restrictions. All they have to do is make sure it runs without some form of DRM, Anti-cheat softwares conflicting with the Proton translation layer.
Steam Deck support isn't about the device either, optimizing for the Steam Deck is also optimizing for all lower end PCs. Optimizing for the Steam Deck is also optimizing for Linux in general. Which we can all agree is a good thing regardless.
In software there are performance issues that aren't noticed with high end systems but are extremely noticeable in lower end ones. Even if they were fixed, higher end systems won't experience improvements, but lower end ones do, and that's the point of optimizing for the Deck.

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4 minutes ago, Thundy said:

Steam Deck is not a console, it's a PC. 

It's neither! It's a handheld!  :sticktongue:

Other than being picky on you on near irrelevant details, I fully agree. The Steam Deck is probably the most significant release for Linux in decades - at least, from the end user point of view.

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Well, according to the youtube reviews there is no reason for KSP not to be on a steamdeck. There is no specific ports for the games on this platform, so logicaly we can come to conclusion that this is going to be pretty easily accessable on this console. Nothing to worry about I guess. 

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16 hours ago, SciMan said:

I never buy gaming laptops because they're destined to become obsolete quickly, whereas with a PC you can replace the graphics card every 2-5 years and stay relatively competitive for likely around 10 years. The whole "but it's portable" thing doesn't really come into play with me either, because if I wanted a "portable PC" I'd build myself a nice small-form-factor ACTUAL PC with components I can actually make choices about regarding "is it time to upgrade or not" without having to throw the WHOLE DEVICE in the hardware graveyard like what happens with a gaming laptop. Yes, you can often replace/upgrade the RAM and HDD/SSD on most laptops. However, those aren't really the parts that will limit your performance inside 99% of games made these days. The components that limit you in games are the CPU and GPU, and maybe the RAM (but only if you don't have enough). Even if a gaming laptop is made that has a graphics card made to fit into a socket, the problem becomes that because it needed to go in a laptop it uses some funky proprietary form factor that as far as you (who owns said laptop) is concerned it might as well be soldered in for all the good that socket does you, because literally nobody makes graphics cards of that form factor other than the graphics card that's already IN your laptop, so there is STILL no upgrade potential.

I'll stick with packing my Nintendo Switch and Tablet when I go on vacations, the tablet has a fantastic screen to watch movies and videos and Twitch streams on, and the Switch has a whole lot of good games on it (tho I do avoid playing it when I'm not on vacation so that I don't run thru all the games on it). 512GB microSD cards in both ensures that I shouldn't ever run out of content even if I can't get a WiFi connection (tho I do tend to make sure I go to spots with internet connection available).

I have a PC, I have a Nintendo Switch and, while on the go, I'm currently playing NES Games on an unlocked PSP GO. Why?

Switch games cost way too much, I don't want to buy crappy ports of indie games for 30-40€ when I already have the same games on PC and I paid almost nothing for them (I have 12 pages of keys I still haven't activated on the Humble Store).

The deck is basically as portable as a Switch, with cheaper games, not having to wait ages for ports, emulators without having to unlock or hack it and, in the same form factor and weight allowance of my switch + my laptop, in my backpack I can fit the Deck and a lapdock to replace both devices.

On top of all of this I can also continue at least some of the gaming I do on my main rig, maybe not loading a colony with 30 ships landing and launching, but I'm sure the Deck is going to manage the VAB and the Spaceplane Hangar of KSP2 just fine  if I want to do some light craft designing and/or flight testing and with Steam Cloud for saves I don't even have to have different saves (having a different PC and Switch save is what stopped me from finishing Hollow Knight a game I got in a 5€ bundle for PC and paid some 20-30€ for the switch version)

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6 hours ago, Jack White said:

Well, according to the youtube reviews there is no reason for KSP not to be on a steamdeck. 

KSP1, I think you mean. KSP2 is still unknown at the present time (Only Windows support were announced,  and we don't know how the DRM will behave on Proton).

The Deck will be, essentially, an updated version of what I have for gaming now.  Quad core, 8 threads, 16GB RAM shared with the GPU.  But about 4 or 5 times faster. :)

Memory hungry mods will probably cause some pain due the shared RAM thing - using 4GB of memory for VRAM means you will have 12 GB of RAM for the CPU. Still pretty decent, but 4GB less than a similar system with dedicated VRAM.

Just forget about 4K, stick with 1080 and you are going to have a hell of a good performance, rendering some gaming machines still in use nowadays crying in shame on the bed at night... :D

 

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1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Just forget about 4K, stick with 1080 and you are going to have a hell of a good performance, rendering some gaming machines still in use nowadays crying in shame on the bed at night... :D

With a screen that small, you could get away with running a game at 720 and get better performance.

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I'm all for having the game run at lower resolutions on the screen for performance reasons.

My biggest issue with KSP (of any flavor) is that it is always a CPU hog, not a graphics intensive game. That's because of the way it uses physics of linked objects to dictate actual game events, rather than only needing physics on "unitary" things like a character for platforming, or a grenade when you throw it, or even to simulate the drop due to gravity of bullets and other projectiles. All those things are easily simulated by any modern processor, even those on higher-end smartphones and tablets can handle that.

What they can't handle is exactly what KSP is doing. Lots and lots of parts all interacting with each other via physics joints. That puts a large strain on any system, even mine with an Intel Core i7-9700k CPU water cooled. My landers usually have almost 70 parts on them after I put on all the experiments and cargo containers so I can deploy surface experiments and carry a few repair packs around (the lander itself doesn't have that many parts, it's all the parts that make the lander "useful" that take up the part count).

My point is that it doesn't matter what kind of system you run KSP on, once you start getting to around 300 parts you're going to be running at (at best) 15 FPS no matter what resolution you pick, because of the physics calculations.

I know they said that KSP 2 will be better in that regard, but it would help a lot if we could just reduce part count in general in the craft files, for instance instead of having to put four individual sensor parts on the spacecraft, you could have a SINGLE part that combines the functionality of all four sensors in one part. Yes that makes the PAW slightly more cluttered, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make if it reduces the part count on my ship. B9 Aerospace has a part that does just that.
The other way I can see that would easily improve this situation would be to incorporate something similar to the old "part welding" mod into the game.
This idea does SO MUCH to MASSIVELY help with the game's physics burden that I should really be using it in my current KSP 1 save game, but the issue is that I get hung up on the fact that I would have to constantly wait thru the long load process of the game in order to construct vessels the way I like to do it.
If that was a process that could be automated in a way to eliminate the constant need to restart the game, I'd be on-board for it, and then they would probably not need to do any additional work on optimizing the physics.
Now I don't think they're doing "exactly" that, and I don't know what they ARE doing with regards to optimizing the physics, but I'm hoping that whatever they are doing, the part count "soft limit" aka where you start losing framerate in KSP 2 is at least double what the limit is for KSP 1.
That would help a lot when you want to carry say 5 different modules to set up a base all on one transfer stage.

But as KSP 1's physics are currently, I can't see it working well on Steam Deck, especially since you'll need a whole different control configuration to deal with the Steam Deck's controls instead of a mouse and keyboard unless of course they somehow allow you to connect those easily to the Steam Deck.

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