[1.12.2] Fix Stock Docking Nodes (7th August 2021)

[Lisias]

13 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

This mod will only live until the next official KSP patch anyway.

But the side effects will endure past it.

Once one install your Fix, every ModuleDockingNodes modules on the crafts being loaded on the editor, and also on the savagames being loading after, will be reset to the default values (TL;DR: The module ModuleDockingNodes is not found and it's removed from the part, and then the upgradepipeline - or something similar to it - installs a new, clean section using ModuleDockingNodesFix).

Module tweaks, actions, axisgroups, perhaps even upgrades-applied (didn't tested this one) is all reset after installing your fix. And this cannot be undone.

And not only this - once one remove the fix, everything happens again.

Full report here. TL;DR : the code you wrote would work fine on an ideal World, but KSP is far from being ideal.

 

13 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

[KSPCommunityFixes] It may actually violate the KSP EULA, but that is one for the legal department to follow up.

And that's precisely the reason I rely on ugly hacks on KSP-Recall instead of fixing the problem where it is. But there's so much one can do with hacks without creating undesired collateral damages - being the reason I extensively test things before publishing them as a real fix (using an Alpha or Experimental release for public scrutiny to see what happens).

However, looking objectively on the problem at hands, KSPCommunityFixes applies the best solution for the problem (other than having it properly fixed on a proper KSP release) : it effectively fixes the problem without any wide spreading collateral damage as your code does (again, not your code's fault, but things are how they are).

Edited August 8, 2021 by Lisias
tyops as usulla…

[linuxgurugamer]

8 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

References in what way sorry?

As in you have mods that specifically look for that Module? in order to do what? Just curious because there are several Interfaces on that module that perhaps you can reference instead of the module by name.

 

 

Most of the mods I found had code like

if (target is ModuleDockingNode)

Not really difficult to fix individually, just a lot of work to do in general.

[Serenity]

16 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

Yeah my bad too. it needs the locking mechanism. Which was only implemented in 1.12.2. So this mod/fix will only work with KSP 1.12.2.

I've updated the opening post to reflect that. sorry for the confusion.

Dropping a fix so fast its amazing, few bumps here and there are even welcomed, don't mind at all, this is a pesky bug to deal with!

6 hours ago, Lisias said:

But the side effects will endure past it.

Once one install your Fix, every ModuleDockingNodes modules on the crafts being loaded on the editor, and also on the savagames being loading after, will be reset to the default values (TL;DR: The module ModuleDockingNodes is not found and it's removed from the part, and then the upgradepipeline - or something similar to it - installs a new, clean section using ModuleDockingNodesFix).

Module tweaks, actions, axisgroups, perhaps even upgrades-applied (didn't tested this one) is all reset after installing your fix. And this cannot be undone.

And not only this - once one remove the fix, everything happens again.

Can you explain a bit what that means from a player's perspective?

I kinda understand the problems surrounding the other mods working with this one.

When and IF the official fix comes and we remove this mod what will happen to our launched crafts?

Will they be safe from the mighty kraken?

Edited August 8, 2021 by Serenity

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, Serenity said:

Dropping a fix so fast its amazing, few bumps here and there are even welcomed, don't mind at all, this is a pesky bug to deal with!

fix fast, fix forever.

Dropping fast fixes disregarding the consequences on the field is, more than often, a source of new problems.

This is the very reason I always do Alpha and Pre Releaes on KSP-Recall. This is worksome and demands more time - but it is so safer. We spend out time and efforts to solve problems , it would be a waste of my time creating new ones.

 

1 hour ago, Serenity said:

Can you explain a bit what that means from a player's perspective?

Savegames being screwed up.

As a simple example: you expend some time building a Abort solution for your crafts and launch them. Once you install this fix, all the abort systems that need a dockingport to do something will fail on every living craft of every savegame you load.

Another one (this one is untested at this moment): you are on career game where upgrades were created and eventually applied on the ModuleDockingNodes . You install the fix, and all the dockinports from all the crafts on all savegames you load after the installation will lose the upgrades.

Ok, so all you need to do is only use the fix on new savegames, right? 

Well, nope. Once you uninstall the fix, everything happens again. So you essentially are stuck with the current KSP release using the fix.

Of course this does not matter for casual gamers those savegames don't last more than some weeks.

But for anyone else with long-standing careers, this is probably a show stopper.

 

[ElonsMusk]

I'm currently trying to rule out this mod, but at the moment it's suspect for not allowing my Jr.s to dock at all. It's very strange trying to get more info. The drift in my craft has been fixed, however. Hopefully I can edit this to rule it out later.

 

The suspect port fixed itself when I put it into a cargo container and placed it from there instead of the scene. Strange, but it isn't broken I suppose.

Edited August 8, 2021 by ElonsMusk

[Anth]

I have seen others complain about docking ports doing that pre 1.12.2 @ElonsMusk

So far I haven't had any issues with docking ports not wanting to dock unless they were undocked and then were too close to redock without moving further away first

[ElonsMusk]

13 minutes ago, Anth12 said:

I have seen others complain about docking ports doing that pre 1.12.2 @ElonsMusk

So far I haven't had any issues with docking ports not wanting to dock unless they were undocked and then were too close to redock without moving further away first

Roger that, hopefully I didn't come off as complaining! haha. Appreciate the info. Perhaps I'm not respecting redock distance enough in this case.

[Serenity]

I don't mind loosing few action groups and minor things like that.

As long as the crafts load normally after removing it, i am sure most will be fine having this much needed fix.

I think there is some misfire from how we feel about this major bug and where these feelings are being directed.

I hope it works, i am trying to be as much positive i can be, especially when someone tries to help.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Serenity

[JPLRepo]

On 8/9/2021 at 6:34 AM, Lisias said:

fix fast, fix forever.

Dropping fast fixes disregarding the consequences on the field is, more than often, a source of new problems.

This is the very reason I always do Alpha and Pre Releaes on KSP-Recall. This is worksome and demands more time - but it is so safer. We spend out time and efforts to solve problems , it would be a waste of my time creating new ones.

 

Savegames being screwed up.

As a simple example: you expend some time building a Abort solution for your crafts and launch them. Once you install this fix, all the abort systems that need a dockingport to do something will fail on every living craft of every savegame you load.

Another one (this one is untested at this moment): you are on career game where upgrades were created and eventually applied on the ModuleDockingNodes . You install the fix, and all the dockinports from all the crafts on all savegames you load after the installation will lose the upgrades.

Ok, so all you need to do is only use the fix on new savegames, right? 

Well, nope. Once you uninstall the fix, everything happens again. So you essentially are stuck with the current KSP release using the fix.

Of course this does not matter for casual gamers those savegames don't last more than some weeks.

But for anyone else with long-standing careers, this is probably a show stopper.

 

tl;dr. Plus the other post you made tl;dr.

So whilst your scenarios are all true in a convoluted way.  I think you forgot one important point. I'm the lead engineer on the project.

So when I fix the bug in the stock code I can also ensure that this patch is handled by the stock code. Not that it requires a engineer on the project to do this.

There are public interfaces in the game that can be used for exactly this.

So thanks anyway.

 

So moving on :

@Serenity
Here's the answer I can give to your questions.

Quote

Can you explain a bit what that means from a player's perspective?

I kinda understand the problems surrounding the other mods working with this one.

When and IF the official fix comes and we remove this mod what will happen to our launched crafts?

Will they be safe from the mighty kraken?

From a players perspective. You can download this mod and use it to fix the issue now.

Other mods may have an issue if they directly use or access the internal code used for docking nodes. That bit is true. No workaround for that with this mod.

When the official fix is done, I will ensure that it works with this mod in mind.

Yes, in a way. But nothing is safe from the mighty kraken. All hale the Kraken!

[Lt_Duckweed]

This is amazing! You have single handedly made 1.12.2 playable for me, as I like building craft out of sections in orbit, and the drift bug was killing anything that landed on the surface afterwards.

[Horus]

Hi,

Can anyone please explain what docking port drifting is it all about?

Trying to notice something like that in game, but I see no corresponding issues.

[610yesnolovely]

3 hours ago, Horus said:

Hi,

Can anyone please explain what docking port drifting is it all about?

Trying to notice something like that in game, but I see no corresponding issues.

AFAIK (ie. I could be wrong):

I believe that the issue is that rotating docking ports, before this fix, always cause the attached craft to be continually updated (position and rotation) - unfortunately due to the way numbers and physics work, this would accumulate very very small changes that over time (probably magnified further away from the docking port or root part). This might mean your craft may behave strangely or explode (you know the usual Kraken things). You might not notice anything, unless you add mods or code to show these tiny errors, or your craft suddenly goes nuts.

The fix disables this update if you enable the lock on the port - it becomes a static part, as it was before docking ports could rotate. Result is your craft will be less like to explode (sans usual Krakens and forgetting to add moar struts).

Note that there's a similar Toggle Locked on Breaking Ground parts for pretty much the same reason.

Edited August 11, 2021 by 610yesnolovely

[Horus]

16 minutes ago, 610yesnolovely said:

AFAIK (ie. I could be wrong):

I believe that the issue is that rotating docking ports, before this fix, always cause the attached craft to be continually updated (position and rotation) - unfortunately due to the way numbers and physics work, this would accumulate very very small changes that over time (probably magnified further away from the docking port or root part). This might mean your craft may behave strangely or explode (you know the usual Kraken things). You might not notice anything, unless you add mods or code to show these tiny errors, or your craft suddenly goes nuts.

The fix disables this update if you enable the lock on the port - it becomes a static part, as it was before docking ports could rotate. Result is your craft will be less like to explode (sans usual Krakens and forgetting to add moar struts).

Note that there's a similar Toggle Locked on Breaking Ground parts for pretty much the same reason.

Thank you for the explanation and your time spent for it. Really appreciate it.

I guess this is the reason I didn't notice anything like that you described due to non-extensive play sessions.

[Ravlyk]

 

On 8/9/2021 at 2:13 PM, JPLRepo said:

I'm the lead engineer on the project. I can also ensure...

No disrespect, but it sounds arrogant, and also how absence of previous bugs was not ensured?

[Vanamonde]

Whether the mod maker is one of the volunteers or a member of Squad staff working on his own time, it's still work done without compensation on behalf of the community. If you don't like the mod for whatever reason you are free not to use it, but no one is justified about being rude to the mod maker. 

[Anth]

Ok docking port drift that affects the entire craft:

1. No Docking Port:

This has no docking port and is in real time

 

The following  is the same craft using timewarp. Also note that KSP will also save it in this position. KSP snaps a craft without a docking port into this position when using timewarp as long has there's no robotics involved. This is what it would look like without any gravity affecting it.

The reason this is necessary is because KSP doesn't save gravitational load on parts/crafts and also doesn't remembers the flex tolerances of attachment points.

2. Docking Port Attached in 1.12

Before Timewarp:

Using Timewarp:

So now this will save the craft with docking ports in 1.12 exactly like this. So when it reloads the scene now the side pieces are permanently bent like that. But its worse than that.

Now the side pieces are permanently bent and now gravity is reapplying force and bends it even further.

 

The following shows what happens after reloading the same craft again and again and again etc etc:

Ok...lets take an even  closer look:

The girder segment attached to the tank is obviously bent, but even the girder segment which is attached beside is also bent partially.

And this is a simple craft. More complicated crafts have issues with docking/undocking, whether the craft is slightly submerged on loading can cause permanent twisting to a craft with a 1.12 docking port attached to it.

This docking port fix resolved all issues back to at least 1.11 levels maybe even better. Without this fix 1.12 was simply unplayable for the type of crafts I make.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Anth12

[ssd21345]

On 8/12/2021 at 1:07 PM, Vanamonde said:

Whether the mod maker is one of the volunteers or a member of Squad staff working on his own time, it's still work done without compensation on behalf of the community. If you don't like the mod for whatever reason you are free not to use it, but no one is justified about being rude to the mod maker. 

Well, the whole first page is just arguments due to misunderstanding between mod makers with unfortunate timing of bringing up a specific issue that goes well beyond this mod. Fortunately, they moved on now.

Anyway, thanks anyone who tried to fix the docking problem! Glad we have a mod fixed a lot of bugs, might try later after I figured out all my other mods don't have problems (or any incompatibility issue with this mod)

Edited August 13, 2021 by ssd21345

[Rakete]

Mhhh... As nice as this fix-mod is, I heard from some modmakers, who also include docking ports in their great stuff, that they might hesitate to adapt their mods, since the situation, if and when a "proper" fix in ksp basegame will happen, isn't very clear. 

Maybe an info from the squad team ( @JPLRepo ) for the other modmakers would make sense, if making their mods compatible to this fix-mod is worth the effort at this point in the timeline. It might not be, if the "proper" fix in KSP itself as 1.12.3 is just around the corner (e.g. just one month away) in a way, that they don't have to adapt to anything if they just wait a little bit... So some info might help them to decide whether to do the efforts now, or to wait for the fix. More info is always best .

Just my thoughts on this...

 

anyway, thanks for the fixmod itself. I think, nobody expected a fix-mod, created in your free time, @JPLRepo. We really appreciate such great efforts.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Rakete

[KerrMü]

@JPLRepo Hey man, thank you for the quick fix.

I installed it 3 days ago and it stopped the drifting, hurray. However, I noticed another small problem since then. Remember the bug that caused docking ports to lock up when an undeployed fairing is present on the vessel? Well, it´s back in my career save. > I can`t undock anything from space stations or the fleet I was just about to send on it´s way to duna when there´s a fairing on the vessel - almost all of them.

May I kindly ask if you think this mod could have anything to do with that? It´s the only thing I changed since 1.12.2 and the only other mods I´m running are EVE, Scatterer and WaypointManager.

And has anyone any ideas how to fix this? So far I´ve tried to reverse it by testing older save points, removing mods and reinstalling the game, but without success. I´m sorry to bother you with this, but I´m out of ideas.

[archiebald]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:54 PM, KerrMü said:

@JPLRepo Hey man, thank you for the quick fix.

I installed it 3 days ago and it stopped the drifting, hurray. However, I noticed another small problem since then. Remember the bug that caused docking ports to lock up when an undeployed fairing is present on the vessel? Well, it´s back in my career save. > I can`t undock anything from space stations or the fleet I was just about to send on it´s way to duna when there´s a fairing on the vessel - almost all of them.

May I kindly ask if you think this mod could have anything to do with that? It´s the only thing I changed since 1.12.2 and the only other mods I´m running are EVE, Scatterer and WaypointManager.

And has anyone any ideas how to fix this? So far I´ve tried to reverse it by testing older save points, removing mods and reinstalling the game, but without success. I´m sorry to bother you with this, but I´m out of ideas.

Have you tried using KML to reset the docking ports so they can undock?  Not sure if it will fix your particular problem but I remember using it a couple of years ago when I couldn't undock some craft.

Also some chat in this old thread.

 

[Spike88]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:40 AM, JPLRepo said:

Will probably not be compatible or break other mods that use the stock ModuleDockingNode part module.

What exactly does this entail? Like what am I looking out for if I apply this fix to a heavily modded save file? I’m mostly using part mods like BDB, Tantares and other stock alike mods like Nertea’s. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Spike88
Fix mobile triple post

[idamoofus]

2 hours ago, Spike88 said:

What exactly does this entail? Like what am I looking out for if I apply this fix to a heavily modded save file? I’m mostly using part mods like BDB, Tantares and other stock alike mods like Nertea’s. 

This has been my concern as well, and I'm also somewhat confused as to what this means client-side for mods that reskin or otherwise affect the stock docking parts, like SSPE or Restock.

[Rakete]

17 hours ago, MrLake said:

This has been my concern as well, and I'm also somewhat confused as to what this means client-side for mods that reskin or otherwise affect the stock docking parts, like SSPE or Restock.

In the SSPXr/ Dev thread Nertea himself stated, that he considered this fix mod as (quote) still "embryonic" and monitored the situation. I guess, he might hesitate to adapt his mod cosmos and the there used dockingports, since it's not clear if a fix in the basegame is just around the corner or if this fix mod will live long and prosper. I think, creating new dependencies is nothing, the modders are really keen on, especially if they do not know about the remaining roadmap of KSP Bugfixing lifecycle and the need to include this fixmod due to not having a root fix around the corner.... 

I think, a statement from squad about a 1.12.3 or .4 with a general fix in the game on the root issue would help the modders to decide what to do... but still: Silence... meeh...

 

Somehow i wish JPLRepo and the modders with dockingports in their mods would have a talk to synchronize... but as all this done in the freetime, i do not dare to ask for anything, as the modders already give soooo much efforts. I can imagine, what a huge time sink modding such a complex game is.

 

I myself use also a heavy modded install with Nertea's mods and use still 1.11.2 (with all its annoying bugs), and the mod packages for this release (at least if the come with docking ports), because of the drift issue. I hesitate to move on to 1.12.2 due to the drifting issue and the not included compatibility of the mods to this fix, as mentioned above. So i hope the situation will become less foggy soon... Right now, I can't see, where this is heading.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Rakete

[dlrk]

Help me out here as a user who's just now upgrading to 1.12.2. What's the stock bug, what mods does this break, and does @Gotmachine's mod prevent it from breaking those mod?

Obviously, at present, it appears that 1.12.2 is the last ever patch for KSP

[peteletroll]

I'm testing DockRotate with the fix: it works, apparently. See here: