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Design a purpose-built plane for the Kerbal Air Force


HyperDraco
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3 hours ago, HyperDraco said:

@Singhnaut and @Sivako Aerospace.

Testing complete, I'll give my verdict tomorrow (it's late at night here).

They're favourable though.

yay! Thank you so much. I have a personal request for leader of the strike force. His name is Lemburry Kerman. He was the first Kerbal to complete the r&d bridge challenge (at least for me). He prefers to use an old fashioned suit though, just like his father, Lembur Kerman

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For @Singhnaut's Naval Bird.

The maneuverable (and difficult to handle without oversteering in my hands), rather slow Naval Bird has piqued the interest of the  KAF.

While slow, this makes this rather small plane quite a challenging target for the likes of Supersonic or Transonic Fighters. The extremely low take off speed, low production cost and no need for long, paved runways make it highly suited for a mass first assault. Firepower is decent with 2 x .50cal MGs. The added maneuverability allows them to quickly evade detected missiles. It has a decent payload and can deliver it's ordinance quite well. We would however equip this plane with countermeasures (through additional external hardpoints) and a Radar Warning Receiver unit. These two upgrades make it a formidable strike fighter.

One downside however is the low speed, it's extremely slow even by the standards of piston-based propeller engines.  This can be handled in a later upgrade to the plane.

We would like 20 of these planes for a mass assault on enemy bases.

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For @Sivako Aerospace's SA-5A.

This plane was so far the only plane in a dogfight to win the first fight against an existing plane of the KAF (which is extremely advanced) in the first bout of 3.

The SA-5A powered by twin Turboramjets is suited for high speed, high altitude interception missions. It was able to catch up and destroy 4 of the bombers of KAF in a Simulation. Test flights prove that aside from the long take off run, the jet has a very impressive striking capacity and decent firepower. Maneuverability wise the plane is quite good and can hold it's own against some supermaneuverable fighters. This plane performs best in the Interceptor role and as an ASF. 

We would like 15 of these planes as a beginning order and perhaps another set later.  

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13 hours ago, HyperDraco said:

For @Singhnaut's Naval Bird.

The maneuverable (and difficult to handle without oversteering in my hands), rather slow Naval Bird has piqued the interest of the  KAF.

While slow, this makes this rather small plane quite a challenging target for the likes of Supersonic or Transonic Fighters. The extremely low take off speed, low production cost and no need for long, paved runways make it highly suited for a mass first assault. Firepower is decent with 2 x .50cal MGs. The added maneuverability allows them to quickly evade detected missiles. It has a decent payload and can deliver it's ordinance quite well. We would however equip this plane with countermeasures (through additional external hardpoints) and a Radar Warning Receiver unit. These two upgrades make it a formidable strike fighter.

One downside however is the low speed, it's extremely slow even by the standards of piston-based propeller engines.  This can be handled in a later upgrade to the plane.

We would like 20 of these planes for a mass assault on enemy bases.

Agreed. I will begin work on the MKII variant.

It will contain a larger payload capacity, more multipurpose uses, a more powerful engine, and even jettisonable RATO engines!

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6 hours ago, Singhnaut said:

Agreed. I will begin work on the MKII variant.

It will contain a larger payload capacity, more multipurpose uses, a more powerful engine, and even jettisonable RATO engines!

btw the KR-71 Flakbird is almost ready!

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22 hours ago, Singhnaut said:

Agreed. I will begin work on the MKII variant.

It will contain a larger payload capacity, more multipurpose uses, a more powerful engine, and even jettisonable RATO engines!

We like your style.

 

16 hours ago, Singhnaut said:

btw the KR-71 Flakbird is almost ready!

Wonderful, I'll be getting the finest Stealth fighter to challenge it.

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Here is my air superiority submission.

https://kerbalx.com/l0kki/Affa-2B

The Äffä-2B is a love letter to the fighter design air superiority competitions of yesterday and the strongest craft I can muster outside kerbalfield black magic. Designed for the 15km Bdarmory competition meta It includes 4 vulcans, 10 Amraams and 2 aim-9's over 12 hardpoints. It has very good energy retention included with a TwR of 1.7 fully loaded. While a product of missile spam doctrine it also performs favorably in dogfights. The only aircraft it in my experience hasn't been able to put up a fight against have been the putrid ECM meta planes.

https://imgur.com/a/STxWLBk  (for pics)

Edited by l0kki
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6 hours ago, l0kki said:

Here is my air superiority submission.

https://kerbalx.com/l0kki/Affa-2B

The Äffä-2B is a love letter to the fighter design air superiority competitions of yesterday and the strongest craft I can muster outside kerbalfield black magic. Designed for the 15km Bdarmory competition meta It includes 4 vulcans, 10 Amraams and 2 aim-9's over 12 hardpoints. It has very good energy retention included with a TwR of 1.7 fully loaded. While a product of missile spam doctrine it also performs favorably in dogfights. The only aircraft it in my experience hasn't been able to put up a fight against have been the putrid ECM meta planes.

https://imgur.com/a/STxWLBk  (for pics)

Oh my, this would put up quite nicely against my Athena IISGI, a fellow child of the missile spam doctrine.

Testing will begin soon.

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But I will like to introduce my Air-superiority/Multirole submission

The MiV-49 a Unmanned fighter designed to be fast and manoeuvrable carrying 4 AMRAAM missiles, 2 EMP AMRAAM, 6 AIM-9 missiles and 6 50cal. guns.

I will edit this when I get photos and the craft file for kerbal-X because I am currently at school so I can't get pictures yet.

Link to photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qeQkY0LnEFqaBP1FbaU6hC62qx66R-iV?usp=sharing

KerbalX link: https://kerbalx.com/creeperking775/MiV-49

Edited by obnox twin
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4 hours ago, obnox twin said:

But I will like to introduce my Air-superiority/Multirole submission

The MiV-49 a Unmanned fighter designed to be fast and manoeuvrable carrying 4 AMRAAM missiles, 2 EMP AMRAAM, 6 AIM-9 missiles and 6 50cal. guns.

I will edit this when I get photos and the craft file for kerbal-X because I am currently at school so I can't get pictures yet.

well well well:) in school are we? LOL I do the same

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19 hours ago, obnox twin said:

But I will like to introduce my Air-superiority/Multirole submission

The MiV-49 a Unmanned fighter designed to be fast and manoeuvrable carrying 4 AMRAAM missiles, 2 EMP AMRAAM, 6 AIM-9 missiles and 6 50cal. guns.

I will edit this when I get photos and the craft file for kerbal-X because I am currently at school so I can't get pictures yet.

Link to photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qeQkY0LnEFqaBP1FbaU6hC62qx66R-iV?usp=sharing

KerbalX link: https://kerbalx.com/creeperking775/MiV-49

After some mild testing, you definitely need to add chaff canisters to the fighter, maybe switch up the engine for a better twr and spice up the ai, but mainly chaff.

https://bdarmory.fandom.com/wiki/AI_Pilot_Flight_Computer i found this useful for tuning the ai of my Wyvern F.3 to the point at which i'm comfortable with it's performance in a dogfight.

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42 minutes ago, chadgaskerman said:

After some mild testing, you definitely need to add chaff canisters to the fighter, maybe switch up the engine for a better twr and spice up the ai, but mainly chaff.

https://bdarmory.fandom.com/wiki/AI_Pilot_Flight_Computer i found this useful for tuning the ai of my Wyvern F.3 to the point at which i'm comfortable with it's performance in a dogfight.

So make a MK2?

I'll make a MK1.5 to make it more improved

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21 hours ago, obnox twin said:

But I will like to introduce my Air-superiority/Multirole submission

The MiV-49 a Unmanned fighter designed to be fast and manoeuvrable carrying 4 AMRAAM missiles, 2 EMP AMRAAM, 6 AIM-9 missiles and 6 50cal. guns.

I will edit this when I get photos and the craft file for kerbal-X because I am currently at school so I can't get pictures yet.

Link to photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qeQkY0LnEFqaBP1FbaU6hC62qx66R-iV?usp=sharing

KerbalX link: https://kerbalx.com/creeperking775/MiV-49

Since the AI seems to fly the thing fairly decently I wont speak on your planes general design that much but it's not a very good design for being flown by a player with a keyboard as it pulls way too much AoA and bleeds all its speed unless youre constantly tapping the W/S keys.

The real problems with the plane as stated above are its lack of chaff, weak engine at low speeds (I.e hilariously bad acceleration and climb). In my tests the Äffä-2B was able to win 1v3's every time against the MiV-49 mostly because of the lack of chaff making the MiV-49 super vulnerable to Amraams. The bad low speed acceleration also left the MiV-49 at below even the standard AI 1500m altitude (8km and 15km start) in contrast to the Äffä-2B which almost climbs up that high before the MiV-49 even takes off. The only time the MiV-49 got into a dogfight was in the 40km start where I had the AI optimized to let them go over mach 1 and at 3km altitude. In this scenario 2/3 MiV's were shot down before 1 of them entered the dogfight where it only really managed to stay on the Äffä-2B's six for a moment because the AI did not understand to extend away rather attempting defensive flying against the MiV-49 which at its concerningly low TwR and high energy bleed is completely incapable of overshooting the Äffä-2B in that scenario even without afterburners.

(Testing was done with the bdarmory built in competition at 8km, 15km and 40km)

I would suggest improving the plane by doing the following:

  • Add chaff
  • AI optimization (max speed, max G, etc....)
  • Change the engine to preferably a panther or for an interceptor role the whiplash
  • I would personally reduce the amount of aim-9's to 4 or 2 and replace the rest with amraams (not a major concern)
  • Consider making the design pull less AoA and bleed less speed when turning. (more/different wing + control surfaces)

The design certainly isnt useless and I believe it could be potentially made into a quite good design mainly by changing the powerplant and perhaps considering the aerodynamics. 

I hope this helps you make it into a better design that can compete against even advanced designs. And yes I spent too much time stroking my ego doing 1v3's against it so I felt obligated to write this. 

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10 minutes ago, l0kki said:

Since the AI seems to fly the thing fairly decently I wont speak on your planes general design that much but it's not a very good design for being flown by a player with a keyboard as it pulls way too much AoA and bleeds all its speed unless youre constantly tapping the W/S keys.

The real problems with the plane as stated above are its lack of chaff, weak engine at low speeds (I.e hilariously bad acceleration and climb). In my tests the Äffä-2B was able to win 1v3's every time against the MiV-49 mostly because of the lack of chaff making the MiV-49 super vulnerable to Amraams. The bad low speed acceleration also left the MiV-49 at below even the standard AI 1500m altitude (8km and 15km start) in contrast to the Äffä-2B which almost climbs up that high before the MiV-49 even takes off. The only time the MiV-49 got into a dogfight was in the 40km start where I had the AI optimized to let them go over mach 1 and at 3km altitude. In this scenario 2/3 MiV's were shot down before 1 of them entered the dogfight where it only really managed to stay on the Äffä-2B's six for a moment because the AI did not understand to extend away rather attempting defensive flying against the MiV-49 which at its concerningly low TwR and high energy bleed is completely incapable of overshooting the Äffä-2B in that scenario even without afterburners.

(Testing was done with the bdarmory built in competition at 8km, 15km and 40km)

I would suggest improving the plane by doing the following:

  • Add chaff
  • AI optimization (max speed, max G, etc....)
  • Change the engine to preferably a panther or for an interceptor role the whiplash
  • I would personally reduce the amount of aim-9's to 4 or 2 and replace the rest with amraams (not a major concern)
  • Consider making the design pull less AoA and bleed less speed when turning. (more/different wing + control surfaces)

The design certainly isnt useless and I believe it could be potentially made into a quite good design mainly by changing the powerplant and perhaps considering the aerodynamics. 

I hope this helps you make it into a better design that can compete against even advanced designs. And yes I spent too much time stroking my ego doing 1v3's against it so I felt obligated to write this. 

Okay thanks I was rushing it and didn't really know how to tweak the AI but I am going to improve this and make a MK2

Edited by obnox twin
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Glad it's all working out. 

Now then, to review @l0kki's Affa-2B.

Simply put, yes.

Now sure, it was an unfair fight, going up not against the Athena IISGI, rather it was pitted against the Athena IV, to which it lost, but not without a fight.

Screenshot-673

Screenshot-679

We want it, 40 of them. The quad-Vulcans though hefty on maintenance and ammo shine as the main offensive weapon for any role, aside from missiles of course. The sleek shape can avoid Radar detection when fitted with countermeasures and the AI pilot is well trained.

This plane excels almost all-round in combat capabilities when compared to the average hostile fighter. The large ordinance payload also are a bonus, showing prospects as a multirole fighter. 

You have earned the badge.

22 hours ago, obnox twin said:

But I will like to introduce my Air-superiority/Multirole submission

The MiV-49 a Unmanned fighter designed to be fast and manoeuvrable carrying 4 AMRAAM missiles, 2 EMP AMRAAM, 6 AIM-9 missiles and 6 50cal. guns.

I will edit this when I get photos and the craft file for kerbal-X because I am currently at school so I can't get pictures yet.

Link to photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qeQkY0LnEFqaBP1FbaU6hC62qx66R-iV?usp=sharing

KerbalX link: https://kerbalx.com/creeperking775/MiV-49

You're up next!

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2 minutes ago, HyperDraco said:

Now sure, it was an unfair fight, going up not against the Athena IISGI, rather it was pitted against the Athena IV, to which it lost, but not without a fight.

Screenshot-673

 

Cough cough are those kerbalfield missiles im seeing? Perhaps AESA even? Cough cough.

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1 hour ago, HyperDraco said:

You're up next!

Well the MK1 is screwed pretty much so here is the improved version aka Mk2 but the Mk1 can be a good naval fighter tho with low stall speed and other stuff. The Mk1 was rushed so it will fail badly but would be a good naval fighter with some stuff upgraded

 

But here is the Mk2 version with improved stuff

The Mk2 of MiV - 45:
KerbalX: https://kerbalx.com/creeperking775/MiV-49-MK2

Photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wV6eb5zbBqi1dgc0gflsCMy1ZybS4Ihl

And tell me if its good and stuff

Edited by obnox twin
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2 hours ago, obnox twin said:

Well the MK1 is screwed pretty much so here is the improved version aka Mk2 but the Mk1 can be a good naval fighter tho with low stall speed and other stuff. The Mk1 was rushed so it will fail badly but would be a good naval fighter with some stuff upgraded

 

But here is the Mk2 version with improved stuff

The Mk2 of MiV - 45:
KerbalX: https://kerbalx.com/creeperking775/MiV-49-MK2

Photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wV6eb5zbBqi1dgc0gflsCMy1ZybS4Ihl

And tell me if its good and stuff

The design is a lot better although far from perfect. The plane still pulls way too much AoA to be stable even with the AI although to fix it the changes are quite minor. Just pulling the wings back a little and disabling engine gimbal made the plane suprisingly competetive. You should try messing around with it untill you get satisfactory results. The AI optimizations are and arent quite there. The Idle speed is way too low (mine is set at max speed without afterburner), the high AoA setting only compounds on the stability problems but otherwise they are roughly fine random as they may seem. 

Also the AI doesnt know how to use different guns. You should have either 20mm's or 50 cal's.

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