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[v1.0.0] The Skyhawk Science System - a new BDB-focused tech tree


CessnaSkyhawk
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I'm real excited for this! I spend a lot of time in a 2.5x Kerbin sized real solar system scaled game and play with nearly all the mods listed! In science mode with all those mods, the stock tech tree leaves a lot to be desired:confused:. I really appreciate care you've been putting in and I can't wait to start up a new save with this tree! Awesome job and keep up the great work! :D

Edited by Kuiper_Belt
Second page?! Nice!
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On 10/3/2021 at 9:38 PM, Kuiper_Belt said:

I'm real excited for this! I spend a lot of time in a 2.5x Kerbin sized real solar system scaled game and play with nearly all the mods listed! In science mode with all those mods, the stock tech tree leaves a lot to be desired:confused:. I really appreciate care you've been putting in and I can't wait to start up a new save with this tree! Awesome job and keep up the great work! :D

 

16 hours ago, theonegalen said:

I've been monitoring the github, but forgot this thread was here!

Glad to hear that everyone is so excited about the tree. I've been quiet lately, but that's mainly because I've been working on setting up the localization and ui icons, but that's almost done and then I can get back to a slightly quicker release schedule. We're in the home stretch now. I've got another set or two of mods I want to add patches for, and then it's just working in the support for More Fuels and setting the science system up.

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I'm currently wrapping up the localization and ui update, but am hitting one last brick wall. I need the full resolution versions of the tech tree icons for all the various rocketry nodes from the stock tree (general, advanced, etc), but the only ones I can find (in the Squad/PartList/SimpleIcons folder) are super-low resolution. Any chance anyone knows where to find the original, full, 64x64 versions?

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9 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I'm currently wrapping up the localization and ui update, but am hitting one last brick wall. I need the full resolution versions of the tech tree icons for all the various rocketry nodes from the stock tree (general, advanced, etc), but the only ones I can find (in the Squad/PartList/SimpleIcons folder) are super-low resolution. Any chance anyone knows where to find the original, full, 64x64 versions?

Could you see if you can reuse icons from community tech tree?

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Skyhawk Science System v0.6.0 - "Balancing Act"

https://github.com/CessnaSkyhawk/SkyhawkScienceSystem/releases

This release doesn't have any new mod support or things like that. Instead, I've done some basic rebalancing, and more importantly, added icons for nearly every tech node aside from the science, space stations, and control trees (those will come soon). Here's a sample:

https://imgur.com/a/r6yj4YQ

Sorry for how long that took. I've been busy and also a little burned out with all decisions and stuff related to localization and icon work.
And as always, this is still NOT gameplay ready!

Edited by CessnaSkyhawk
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Skyhawk Science System v0.7.0 - "World Tour"

https://github.com/CessnaSkyhawk/SkyhawkScienceSystem/releases

With this new release, the Skyhawk Science System is going global! We've added support for all sorts of international space programs in this smaller scale update. Some highlights include Commonwealth Rocketry Expanded (UK), GemstoneLV (Japan), Chrayol Design Org (ISRO), Provenance Aerospace (Blue Origin) and Luciole (France). Unfortunately, after taking a look at Tantares and Knes I decided to hold off on those for now. I've been getting a little burned out with devolopment lately, and honestly, just want to get the tree to a point where it's playable so I can finally start a career save again. As I don't plan on using either of those two, I'm just thinking I'm gonna hold off till I feel ready to put them it, so that I can give them the care they deserve in working them into the tree. Sorry to disappoint those who were hoping for support, but I still aim on getting them in here someday. In other, happier news, we are getting close to a big milestone! I've got one more release planned for supporting a couple remaining part mods I like, and after that it's just science balancing and support for MoreFuels & Rational Resources. I'm also heavily considering Kerbalism support, so let me know if that's something you'd be interested in!

We are almost there, but it's still in alpha. Don't use it in real saves!!!

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I love what you did with the custom icons!  I’m right there with you with wanting to start a new career save! :)

On 10/16/2021 at 11:06 AM, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I've been getting a little burned out with devolopment lately, and honestly, just want to get the tree to a point where it's playable so I can finally start a career save again. As I don't plan on using either of those two, I'm just thinking I'm gonna hold off till I feel ready to put them it, so that I can give them the care they deserve in working them into the tree.

Don’t sweat it dude. Take your time! You’re creating this wonderful thing for the game, the least we can do is be patient!

Edited by Kuiper_Belt
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On 10/16/2021 at 11:06 AM, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I'm also heavily considering Kerbalism support, so let me know if that's something you'd be interested in!

Kerbalism is something that goes much further in the "realism" direction than I like to go. I'm more a fan of Snacks, for example. So if you do support Kerbalism, please integrate it in  a way that doesn't keep the tree and your other rebalances from working without it!

On 10/16/2021 at 5:31 PM, Kuiper_Belt said:

I love what you did with the custom icons!  I’m right there with you with wanting to start a new career save! :)

Don’t sweat it dude. Take your time! You’re creating this wonderful thing for the game, the least we can do is be patient!

More importantly, what this person said!

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28 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

Kerbalism is something that goes much further in the "realism" direction than I like to go. I'm more a fan of Snacks, for example. So if you do support Kerbalism, please integrate it in  a way that doesn't keep the tree and your other rebalances from working without it!

Don't worry - if I do end up integrating Kerbalism, I'll definitely make sure it's not a hard requirement. And I'll take a peek at Snacks as well when I get to that point. I know it's a very light LS mod, so it honestly shouldn't be that bad to support as well.

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On 10/16/2021 at 6:06 PM, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Skyhawk Science System v0.7.0 - "World Tour"

https://github.com/CessnaSkyhawk/SkyhawkScienceSystem/releases

With this new release, the Skyhawk Science System is going global! We've added support for all sorts of international space programs in this smaller scale update. Some highlights include Commonwealth Rocketry Expanded (UK), GemstoneLV (Japan), Chrayol Design Org (ISRO), Provenance Aerospace (Blue Origin) and Luciole (France). Unfortunately, after taking a look at Tantares and Knes I decided to hold off on those for now. I've been getting a little burned out with devolopment lately, and honestly, just want to get the tree to a point where it's playable so I can finally start a career save again. As I don't plan on using either of those two, I'm just thinking I'm gonna hold off till I feel ready to put them it, so that I can give them the care they deserve in working them into the tree. Sorry to disappoint those who were hoping for support, but I still aim on getting them in here someday. In other, happier news, we are getting close to a big milestone! I've got one more release planned for supporting a couple remaining part mods I like, and after that it's just science balancing and support for MoreFuels & Rational Resources. I'm also heavily considering Kerbalism support, so let me know if that's something you'd be interested in!

We are almost there, but it's still in alpha. Don't use it in real saves!!!

I'm really looking forward to the release of your mod!

Two small things: It's Commonwealth Rocketry Establishment (even Beale forgot what it was named lol), and I'd appreciate it if you'd still add KNES and Tantares in some future updates :D

Edited by Neebel
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34 minutes ago, Kakub said:

Ihope the Kertemis program and Konstellation Program will be implemented :)

They are :) 

If you go to this github issue here, you can see all my plans for mod support and the like

Sorry for the lack of development updates everyone. I've decided to combine the next two updates into one big update which is taking a tad longer then expected. Hopefully it'll be out soon, but for now, enjoy some teasers of what's to come... :cool:

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Edited by CessnaSkyhawk
Merge
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Not sure how i managed to miss this.. looks pretty much prefect! been looking for a suitable Tech tree mod for some time messed with them all i think but struggling to find *the one* this could be it cant really thing of anything else i would like to add thats not already there or been mentioned.. maybe a Ckan *list* with it all bundled together 

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39 minutes ago, Bigant said:

Not sure how i managed to miss this.. looks pretty much prefect! been looking for a suitable Tech tree mod for some time messed with them all i think but struggling to find *the one* this could be it cant really thing of anything else i would like to add thats not already there or been mentioned.. maybe a Ckan *list* with it all bundled together 

Glad to hear you like it!

I do plan on seeing about setting up a CKAN bundle once I release v1.0, so look for that once it finally drops!

Speaking of ETAs, I don't want to make any promises, but I'm optimistically thinking I can get 1.0 out around the end of November, and if not, it'll almost certainly be out by the end of the year. At this point it really just depends how long the kerbalism integration will take, but I might release a non-Kerbalism beta as well depending on how I structure the last few alpha releases.

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On 10/30/2021 at 11:31 AM, CessnaSkyhawk said:

They are :) 

If you go to this github issue here, you can see all my plans for mod support and the like

Sorry for the lack of development updates everyone. I've decided to combine the next two updates into one big update which is taking a tad longer then expected. Hopefully it'll be out soon, but for now, enjoy some teasers of what's to come... :cool:

UvR9voh.png

LAQmJvn.png

05jQ8yh.png

bcC8mVI.png

cGf955F.png

RB88mA9.png

 

ooo real fuels configs very nice

I know it's 100% and alpha, but how playable is it right now with BDB and Nertea's suite?

Edited by bigyihsuan
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33 minutes ago, bigyihsuan said:

ooo real fuels configs very nice

I know it's 100% and alpha, but how playable is it right now with BDB and Nertea's suite?

*Technically not real fuels. I just added a tertiary "hypergolic" fuel type, made oxidizer boiloff to give it a use case, and added a patch to rename the stock fuels to more realistic names. It's still far more simplified than Real Fuels.

It is "technically" playable right now, but in reality I 100% would advise against it. I haven't gotten to balancing science experiments yet, so every node is just 5 science points, which as you can imagine would make for an incredibly easy tech tree to unlock.  

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Well, finally, after a bit of a delay, here's another release, and its a big one! We're in the home stretch now, and I've really only got one last big release (the Science update) left before a full release. I'm also considering releasing a playable beta at somepoint mid development of that, so if people would be interested in trying that out, do please let me know! I'm trying out a more formal changelog setup now that we're closer to release, so here goes nothing!

Added Support for the following mods

  • Bluedog DB Master Updates (Clementine & Pioneer 10)
  • BonVoyage
  • CommNetAntennasExtension
  • ConformalDecals
  • Deep Freeze
  • DSSHU
  • HabTech2
  • JX2 Antenna
  • KAS
  • KeR-7
  • Kerbal Engineer Redux
  • Kerbal GPS
  • KIS
  • kOS
  • MechJeb2
  • Missing Robotics
  • Stockalike Open Cockpit
  • Planetside Exploration Technologies
  • Project Orion
  • Rational Resources & its Derivatives
  • Stockalike Mining Extension
  • TeaKettleRCS
  • Universal Storage 2

Added Rocket Engine Fuel Reworks
There are now three different classes of rocket engines available, conventional, cryogenic and hypergolic.

  • Conventional rockets use a combination of Kerosene (renamed Liquid Fuel) and LqdOxygen (renamed Oxidizer). Oxidizer/LqdOxygen now boils off, adding a new design constraint to consider.

  • Cryogenic rockets use either LqdHydrogen or LqdMethane along side LqdOxygen, and aren't changed much, aside from the LqdOxygen boiloff.

  • Hypergolic rockets use Aerozine50 as a fuel, and NitrogenTetroxide as their oxidizer, and have the nice perk that neither boil off, making them the best choice for interplanetary probes and other missions where fuel will be sitting for a while, just like in real life. The hypergolic fuels have full ISRU support and tankage support for both stock and rational resources.

  • Monopropellant has been renamed to Hydrazine, bringing it in line with the rest of the fuels namewise, although nothing else about it has changed.

NTR Fuel Reworks
I have implemented a support mechanism which allows for NTR propellant switching so long as one installs the Rational Resources Nuclear Family Patch alongside with SSS.

Tankage Standardization
I have standardized all tanks under one B9PartSwitch regime, meaning that you can expect all parts to accept all possible propellant resources from the basic trifecta to exotic nuclear ones like LqdAmonnia or Water, with the same ratios and breadth (The one exception being BDB Balloon Tanks, which have a little bit of special treatment). I've standardized boil-off as well, so all tanks operate under the simple CryoTanks setup, preventing any inconsistency.

This release is still in alpha, and is not recommended for installation in career saves!!! It's still not balanced, and could potentially mess stuff up! It's all good for sandbox though if you want to test out the new fuel reworks! 

 

Edited by CessnaSkyhawk
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Hey everyone! I've already started planning out how science is going to be balanced, and I've got a question for everyone. Here's the current set up for science cost per tier, along side what major milestones/techs come with each tier. What do you all think about this balance setup? Does it seem reasonable? I do plan on modifying the costs of some experiments, especially earlier in the tree, to make sure stuff isn't too grindy, but also not too easy.

Tier Science Cost Important Milestones/Unlocks 
1 5 Space-Capable Sounding Rockets
2 10 Basic Orbital Spaceflight (Tiny Sputnik/Explorer 1 style probes)
3 20 Improved Orbital Spaceflight (Multipart, slightly larger satellites)
4 35 Mun/Minmus Probes
5 50 Interplanetary Flybys, Unmanned Mun/Minmus Landers, Manned Spaceflight
6 75 Space Stations, Ion Propulsion
7 100 Rudimentary Manned Mun/Minmus Landings (Think Gemini Lander concepts)
8 200 NTRs, serious Mun/Minmus Landings (Apollo)
9 400 Surface Bases, ISRU, Interplanetary Manned Spaceflight
10 800 Plasma Propulsion
11 1200  
12 1600 End of all tech branches aside from Fusion and Plasma/Antimatter, so tech costs increase to compensate
13 2400 Fusion Power/Reactors
14 3600 Antimatter
15 4300  
16 5000  
17 10000 FTL Tech

EDIT - Changed tier values slightly based on comment two below this one.

 

 

Edited by CessnaSkyhawk
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I wonder if serious Mun/Minmus (Apollo) might be a little too far into the tree at 400 points?  One thing I was wondering or would like to see though is for the BDB parts to be arranged in the tree so that you get all the parts you need to build the LM for example in one node.  For example, in the stock, and in other trees (CTT, KTT) you end up having to unlock way more nodes than seems necessary just to get one little part to make a complete Apollo mission or a complete Gemini mission.  

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1 hour ago, Redleg1 said:

I wonder if serious Mun/Minmus (Apollo) might be a little too far into the tree at 400 points? 

Fair enough - my thought process is that I'm trying to encourage a slightly different playstyle focused on doing a lot of unmanned missions (Mariner-style flybys and orbiters, and Surveyor style landers) before starting big manned missions (kind of like how the first Mariner flybys happened a few years before Apollo 11), but maybe I am a little aggressive on the science scaling. I'm thinking I might tone things down slightly to help make it a bit less extreme (maybe add a 75 between the 50 in 100, so tier 8 is now 200 instead of 400)

1 hour ago, Redleg1 said:

One thing I was wondering or would like to see though is for the BDB parts to be arranged in the tree so that you get all the parts you need to build the LM for example in one node.  For example, in the stock, and in other trees (CTT, KTT) you end up having to unlock way more nodes than seems necessary just to get one little part to make a complete Apollo mission or a complete Gemini mission.  

In regards to this, I tried my best to keep stuff relatively compact - you do still have to unlock at least a few different nodes for various types of parts (engines, command modules, etc), but I try my best to keep them in the same tier instead. 

Edited by CessnaSkyhawk
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