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12 hours ago, Synonym Toast Crunch said:

I think you're misunderstanding what I meant by that.

Yes, games on the NES take up fewer bytes than they do on the PS5, but that isn't what we're talking about, is it? Games being smaller because they used the old model of releasing a complete game vs. releasing an incomplete game then charging more for the missing content is what Master39 is implying, which is what I don't remember ever being true. Games were smaller because disk space was smaller, not because of the way they were released.

You don't get more game for the same amount of money on the new model, you get less.

I'm not. Games nowadays can have 100's of hours of content, KSP has for some people 10,000's of hours of content. Back in the days of N64, goldeneye had 10 levels, each of which took about 15 minutes to complete, at the age of 8 I was regularly finishing starfox 64 hard path runs at 45 min each. You can point to a game like super mario 64 which took a fair bit longer due to recycling levels 6x per level and without using nostalgia tell me, honestly, that super mario 64 has anywhere near the content and features of a modern platformer. Look at LoZ:OoT and The Witcher 3.... You mean to tell me they are even within an order of magnitude of each other in content?

This all goes without mentioning the sheer complexity of modern games and the exponentially increasing amount of bugs to fix as a result meaning a greater need for continuous support. DLC funds that...

We get more game now in each game, studios are bigger, budgets are bigger, machinery is more capable. It's a freaking miracle were still paying only $60 for AAA games. 

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I'd be happy with having some of the promised features get added in later DLCs, but I consider colonies and resource management to be a core part of what I'm expecting in KSP 2 and would be somewhat disappointed if they were not in the game at launch.  If they can't get multiplayer (or even interstellar travel) working satisfactorily at launch, those would be fine to add either as a future free update or as DLC as far as I'm concerned.

However, in a game like KSP, not all features are good to put in a DLC.  I am opposed to DLCs that add more variety to the parts you can use for some task (a la Making History) because sharing the crafts you build in KSP is I think an important part of the game, and if you build with DLC parts, then not everyone can use your craft.  So then when building craft you always need to keep in the back of your mind if it's really a good idea to use those parts when you could just use a base-game alternative that any player would have access to.  DLC like Breaking Ground are better because there are no base-game alternatives worth considering when building crafts - robotics are a novel feature, so fairly good as a DLC.  Ideally though, DLC that doesn't introduce any new parts (only new gameplay features or new planets) would be best.

I'd be fine with KSP 2 not having much part variety at launch, but new parts that are not fundamentally different from the existing base-game parts should only ever be added in free updates IMO.

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5 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

I'm not. Games nowadays can have 100's of hours of content, KSP has for some people 10,000's of hours of content. Back in the days of N64, goldeneye had 10 levels, each of which took about 15 minutes to complete, at the age of 8 I was regularly finishing starfox 64 hard path runs at 45 min each. You can point to a game like super mario 64 which took a fair bit longer due to recycling levels 6x per level and without using nostalgia tell me, honestly, that super mario 64 has anywhere near the content and features of a modern platformer. Look at LoZ:OoT and The Witcher 3.... You mean to tell me they are even within an order of magnitude of each other in content?

This all goes without mentioning the sheer complexity of modern games and the exponentially increasing amount of bugs to fix as a result meaning a greater need for continuous support. DLC funds that...

We get more game now in each game, studios are bigger, budgets are bigger, machinery is more capable. It's a freaking miracle were still paying only $60 for AAA games. 

Yeah! Once you add mods, specifically part/planet mods, your play time potential goes up exponentially.

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On 10/18/2021 at 12:06 PM, Synonym Toast Crunch said:

i strongly disagree with this. The game should be complete upon release. I don't want to pay 60$ for the core of a game then get nickle and dimed paying for all the content until I finally have the entire thing for however much they all cost together a.k.a. the Sims 4 model. Just give me the whole game that I payed for like how games used to be done.

I have over 2000 hours in KSP, which is far less than a lot of people on these forums.  I'd pay for Paradox levels of DLC and still consider it a bargain.  Things cost more than they used to, that's every generations' complaint, and DLC is just the modern way.  I don't like it either, but I'd far prefer a wonderful game with an unpleasant billing model than a wonderful price for a game I don't like.

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On 10/23/2021 at 9:05 PM, Skorj said:

I have over 2000 hours in KSP, which is far less than a lot of people on these forums.  I'd pay for Paradox levels of DLC and still consider it a bargain.  Things cost more than they used to, that's every generations' complaint, and DLC is just the modern way.  I don't like it either, but I'd far prefer a wonderful game with an unpleasant billing model than a wonderful price for a game I don't like.

Im not personally trilled with paradox. Some of their DLCs are worth it but half of them do feel like charging for content that aught to have been included at launch or charging 15$ for tram skins. Im happy to see new content added over time but it really should expand gameplay. Underwater exploration is a good example: subsea base parts, propellers and pump-jets, ballast and boyancy, a waterworld planet maybe sub-ice oceans, thermal vents and reefs, etc. Something comprehensive that gives us lots of new space to explore and new mission profiles. 

Edited by Pthigrivi
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