[1.12.x] KaioSpace-KSP - Starship 2021

[EritoKaio]

Starship 2021 Design (S20)

PERMANENT UPDATE: I have decided to discontinue the mod due to burnout and the high rate of changes to the design IRL, plus I absolutely hate dealing with Unity and KSP modding in general. A lot more work than I really have the patience to deal with, so I'm returning to only doing renders and animations.

HOWEVER. . .

Spoiler

See you in KSP 2.

If you want a replacement, please check @Kari's Starship Expansion Project we've helped each other in the past and I highly recommend it.

Down below you can see all the current features, screenshots, compatibility, dependencies and a longer description about me and mod.

First of all, here's a little event I did on my KaioSpace youtube channel when I first released the mod for my Patrons to test:

Screenshots:

Spoiler

Dependencies:

• TundraExploration is required for the flaps to function.
• TexturesUnlimited is required for you to see the shiny metal.
• CryoTanks are required because of the LqdMethane configuration as of 1.2. (This was an accidental thing, I'll see if I can make it optional for 2.0, alternatively, you can probably delete the tank configs in the Patches folder of the mod)

 

Recommended:

• CryoEngines - For more accurate Raptor replicas until I make my own. My mod includes a config for the engines and tank contents to be compatible.
• Waterfall - For the raptor exhaust plumes.
• HullCameraVDS & NeptuneCamera - For the FlapCam/WindwardCam/DownwardCam if you want to do fancy videos.
• StarshipLaunchExpansion - For the suborbital clamp and launch tower.
• Kari's Starship Expansion Project - If you need a booster that fits with my Ship until I release my own and you'll also have more Ship variants to play with.

 

Installation:

1. Place the KaioSpace folder in the zip file inside the KSP GameData folder.
2. Launch the game! Yup, should be that simple.

• On CKAN all you have to do is select and install.

I have not made a craft file for it yet, but if you're familiar with other Starship mods it should work very similarly. You get an extra option to toggle the vents with an action group on the nose and tank section.
I recommend that you set the nosecone to lower fuel Flow Priority so the header tank remains full until its really needed, also balances the weight better on descent.

Features usually get released to patreon first a couple days early and then I will make a public release once all testing is done. The next major update (2.0) will likely be the SuperHeavy Booster.

NOTE: Starship S20 does NOT have legs so I didn't model any and likely wont until we have a new design at Starbase. If you want to use legs you can use Tundra's legs for the time being. You just need to do some weird symmetry because S20+ has a new skirt design.

 

Download: Spacedock (& CKAN) | Dev Versions: Patreon

Roadmap: Trello

License: MIT

 

About Me & Mod:

I'm Erito. I'm a 3D artist who has been making renders for a while and had the pleasure of joining a group of other Spaceflight artists who have been helping me improve. Since last year I've been addicted to Starship's development and I had the idea to make this mod in January 2021 but stopped because I wasn't making progress learning (because quite honestly the documentation for modding isn't.. very friendly or updated for new devs, but that's a rant for another day). Few months later I restarted the project and here we are.
I very regularly post updates on Twitter and my Discord about the mod, tho keep in mind if you join my discord I'm extremely strict with my rules, no memes, only Starship/3D modeling/Chill talk, and I'm also known for not dealing well with younger audiences.

RSS/RO Configs:
I'm not planing to make RSS/RO configs myself, but you're free to post your configs on this post and I'll list them here below.
I will not test them myself (I'm bad at RO lol) so use at your own risk & let me know, also send me pics on twitter!!:

Spoiler

Here's a list of RSS/RO configs made by other people:

@InfoTheGamer:  https://github.com/InfoTheGamer/Starship-RSS-RO-config

 

Modder Resources for making compatible mods:

Spoiler

 

Changelogs:

Spoiler

Changelog 1.2:
**Model/Texture Updates:**

• Bottom tiles of both flaps have been updated to match real design (S21).
• Adjusted the welds of the flaps.
• Added flap motors inside the skirt.
• Added the GSE Panel on Ship. (Only visual for now)
• Added extra supports for the skirt clamp mounts.
• Added RVac mounts.
• Added COPVs inside the Ship's skirt. (Speculative placement until real-reference)
• Added the GSE Pipes inside the skirt.
• Added the raceway.

**Config Updates:**

• Symmetry now works for the engine mounts.
• RVac attachment node slightly moved up to match the visual mount. (May break craft files)
• Added an offset to the CoL of the flaps in an attempt to improve belly flop roll stability.
• Added a fuel switch for the tank contents and vents. (LqdMethane + Oxidizer)
• Improved the engine configurations for CryoEngines to work better with my ship.
  • They are also now auto-installed so you don't have to do it manually.

 

Changelog 1.1:

• Added the hatches on Starship.
• Minor change to the heat shield pattern for the antennas.
• Added the white blanket under the tiles.
• Added the passive vent on the opposite side of the main LOX vent.
• Added the pipe connecting the header tank to the header vent.
• Improved textures and shaders.
  • Fixed heatshield not being the intended normal map texture resolution.

 

Release log 1.0:

• Initial release of the mod includes the Cargo version of the nosecone, the flaps, and the tank section.

 

Work In Progress:

Spoiler

Here's a list of things that are being worked on:

• SuperHeavy Booster - https://twitter.com/EritoKaio/status/1474435824439672834
• Starship details (Nosecone interior rework.)
• RocketLab Neutron, this will be Phase 2 of my mod, and may take a while to be shown/released.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by EritoKaio
End of life announcement.

[IsaQuest]

First! Great Mod BTW

[Kochi]

first kew

 

[zapata21]

The best thing about this mod, apart from how well done is the detail in each piece, the TPS is amazing it is 3D and it ventilates the vehicle, come on !!! that's great 

[Fishfinger]

Looks AWESOME man. So glad you fought through all the problems!

[Spaceman.Spiff]

Looks really great. 
Good job!

[Beccab]

Amazing! I can't wait to see how the variant with flaps at 120 degrees will be 

[EritoKaio]

19 minutes ago, Beccab said:

Amazing! I can't wait to see how the variant with flaps at 120 degrees will be 

uh oh... I have bad news for you lol. I'm not interested in that design at all, in fact, I hate the look of it. Which is the main reason I named the title "2021 design".

[EritoKaio]

Small update: Mod is now on CKAN!

[Jacktical]

Congrats om the release! Great job  

[SheepyKSP]

Looks awesome and i'm excited to see how this mod progresses in the future   

[EritoKaio]

EDIT: Made a small woopsie, download 1.1.1, I forgot to include the updated TexturesUnlimited patch.

Version 1.1 is now released.

Changelog:
- Added the hatches on Starship.
- Minor change to the heat shield pattern for the antennas.
- Added the white blanket under the tiles.
- Added the passive vent on the opposite side of the main LOX vent.
- Added the pipe connecting the header tank to the header vent.
- Improved textures and shaders.
 * Fixed heatshield not being the intended normal map texture resolution.

Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by EritoKaio

[ElonsMusk]

Finally watched the full video of the test flight! So good!! I really respect the amount of time that went into the small things.

[The_only_spaceace]

Congrats on the initial release, i cant wait for future updates and revamps!

[Noctua]

Nice, does it also work in 1.8.1? 

[Dutchy247]

Awesome! in the future are you planning on adding a super heavy? sick mod btw!

[EritoKaio]

On 10/26/2021 at 10:17 AM, Noctua said:

Nice, does it also work in 1.8.1? 

Don't know, it requires the latest TundraExploration for the flaps to work. I have not tested in anything below 1.11, and don't plan to.

 

On 10/27/2021 at 1:51 AM, Dutchy247 said:

Awesome! in the future are you planning on adding a super heavy? sick mod btw!

Yes. Waiting on SpaceX to add a few things to the real one before I finish it.

Edited October 29, 2021 by EritoKaio

[Janus92]

@EritoKaioCongrats on such a wonderful mod! The details are just amazing! I mean, it can vent out fuel!!

 

I've noticed that the balance of Mass and Lift is not ideal:

In the picture below the Center of Lift is too far forward compared to the Center of Mass. Yet it is (only just) in a stable descent. That's because drag is also a factor in balancing the ship. The  pitch-up moment (from CoL in front of CoM) is now only countered with a lot of extra drag from the Aft Flaps, less drag from the Fwd Flaps, and with the reaction wheels (which in an ideal case should not have to do work at all).

(disregard the non-use of TU. Can't get it to work properly on linux.)

I have a few hypotheses about what messes up the balance (KSP makes things more difficult sometimes):

-The current Nose section CoM and CoL are way too far forward. Yes the Mass goes to the front, but the Lift-vector also goes forward by the same amount. Changing this alone will not fix the problem, but having the two sections individual points of lift and drag so far away from the main CoM does not make things more stable in my experience (just results in bigger turning moments).

-The current Aft Section CoM is in the exact center of the section, even though the fuel tank is in the forward 3/4 part of the section. The last 1/4 part is the skirt. So when there's fuel inside (even just a little bit), this causes an unrealistically backwards shift of the CoM that would not be there if the tank would have it's own CoM. For simplicity one might consider moving the aft section CoM forward, which will have the added advantage of the point mentioned above that forces like lift and drag will grab closer to the ships main CoM.

-After these two steps some minor tweaking of the lift and drag values may need to be done. On final descent I reach speeds around the lower 70m/s, whereas I'm guessing the goal should be around 90m/s. Reducing lift and drag on the nose section alone might be able to put the ship in complete balance. Actually scratch that: The ship seems to be a bit light, so increasing the nose section mass by a certain number (around 10 tons or so?) and the aft section with only a few tons without influencing lift and drag values might do the trick.

 

So this is my view, and I want to stress that I may be wrong in my assumptions. Maybe you don't agree and you find a way to balance things out yourself, which would be wonderful. This is not criticism ofcourse, but just a passion for what you've created!

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Janus92
to edit what I wrote?

[SpaceFace545]

11 hours ago, Janus92 said:

@EritoKaioCongrats on such a wonderful mod! The details are just amazing! I mean, it can vent out fuel!!

 

I've noticed that the balance of Mass and Lift is not ideal:

In the picture below the Center of Lift is too far forward compared to the Center of Mass. Yet it is (only just) in a stable descent. That's because drag is also a factor in balancing the ship. The  pitch-up moment (from CoL in front of CoM) is now only countered with a lot of extra drag from the Aft Flaps, less drag from the Fwd Flaps, and with the reaction wheels (which in an ideal case should not have to do work at all).

(disregard the non-use of TU. Can't get it to work properly on linux.)

I have a few hypotheses about what messes up the balance (KSP makes things more difficult sometimes):

-The current Nose section CoM and CoL are way too far forward. Yes the Mass goes to the front, but the Lift-vector also goes forward by the same amount. Changing this alone will not fix the problem, but having the two sections individual points of lift and drag so far away from the main CoM does not make things more stable in my experience (just results in bigger turning moments).

-The current Aft Section CoM is in the exact center of the section, even though the fuel tank is in the forward 3/4 part of the section. The last 1/4 part is the skirt. So when there's fuel inside (even just a little bit), this causes an unrealistically backwards shift of the CoM that would not be there if the tank would have it's own CoM. For simplicity one might consider moving the aft section CoM forward, which will have the added advantage of the point mentioned above that forces like lift and drag will grab closer to the ships main CoM.

-After these two steps some minor tweaking of the lift and drag values may need to be done. On final descent I reach speeds around the lower 70m/s, whereas I'm guessing the goal should be around 90m/s. Reducing lift and drag on the nose section alone might be able to put the ship in complete balance. Actually scratch that: The ship seems to be a bit light, so increasing the nose section mass by a certain number (around 10 tons or so?) and the aft section with only a few tons without influencing lift and drag values might do the trick.

 

So this is my view, and I want to stress that I may be wrong in my assumptions. Maybe you don't agree and you find a way to balance things out yourself, which would be wonderful. This is not criticism ofcourse, but just a passion for what you've created!

 

 

Hmm I have similar issues with this but on my end more of a problem is the thing "stalling?" during the bellyflop and tumbling out of control. I dunno balancing is off but the dev said he's more focused on making the models before perfecting the configs.

[Janus92]

11 hours ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Hmm I have similar issues with this but on my end more of a problem is the thing "stalling?" during the bellyflop and tumbling out of control. I dunno balancing is off but the dev said he's more focused on making the models before perfecting the configs.

Well, I would say that's the same problem. It feels like it's stalling (technically speaking starship is always in a stall at such high angles of attack) because the CoL is in front of the CoM, making the ship stable in retrograde, therefore tumbling out of control.

But there's no hurry, I just put a little counterweight (5-10 tons) in the cargo hold to drag that CoM forward. Then it flies like a dream! This can get fixed at any later point in time.

[EritoKaio]

On 11/1/2021 at 11:26 AM, Janus92 said:

@EritoKaioCongrats on such a wonderful mod! The details are just amazing! I mean, it can vent out fuel!!

 

I've noticed that the balance of Mass and Lift is not ideal:

In the picture below the Center of Lift is too far forward compared to the Center of Mass. Yet it is (only just) in a stable descent. That's because drag is also a factor in balancing the ship. The  pitch-up moment (from CoL in front of CoM) is now only countered with a lot of extra drag from the Aft Flaps, less drag from the Fwd Flaps, and with the reaction wheels (which in an ideal case should not have to do work at all).

(disregard the non-use of TU. Can't get it to work properly on linux.)

I have a few hypotheses about what messes up the balance (KSP makes things more difficult sometimes):

-The current Nose section CoM and CoL are way too far forward. Yes the Mass goes to the front, but the Lift-vector also goes forward by the same amount. Changing this alone will not fix the problem, but having the two sections individual points of lift and drag so far away from the main CoM does not make things more stable in my experience (just results in bigger turning moments).

-The current Aft Section CoM is in the exact center of the section, even though the fuel tank is in the forward 3/4 part of the section. The last 1/4 part is the skirt. So when there's fuel inside (even just a little bit), this causes an unrealistically backwards shift of the CoM that would not be there if the tank would have it's own CoM. For simplicity one might consider moving the aft section CoM forward, which will have the added advantage of the point mentioned above that forces like lift and drag will grab closer to the ships main CoM.

-After these two steps some minor tweaking of the lift and drag values may need to be done. On final descent I reach speeds around the lower 70m/s, whereas I'm guessing the goal should be around 90m/s. Reducing lift and drag on the nose section alone might be able to put the ship in complete balance. Actually scratch that: The ship seems to be a bit light, so increasing the nose section mass by a certain number (around 10 tons or so?) and the aft section with only a few tons without influencing lift and drag values might do the trick.

 

So this is my view, and I want to stress that I may be wrong in my assumptions. Maybe you don't agree and you find a way to balance things out yourself, which would be wonderful. This is not criticism ofcourse, but just a passion for what you've created!

 

 

Starship is designed to be capable of also bringing payloads down. Meaning if if the center of mass is not further back than the center of lift you will end up with a very heavy nosecone and nosedive on reentry. I have to find a balance that works for both an empty and a filled nosecone.

The CoM of the nose is further higher because there's this thing called header tank at the very tip that has LOX in it, and should be set to remain full by lowering the flow priority of it, also helping the general center of mass of the ship.
The ship is also designed to have the main tanks basically empty during a bellyflop, other than the methane tank. If you notice, the tank section doesn't have a perfect ratio between LF and Ox, because I moved some of it's Ox to the header tank.

As for the roll imbalance, there's not much I can do, because KSP does not update the center of lift in real-time based on the flap angle, when the flaps are slightly folded the CoL should also move slightly leeward which would create a natural roll balance. This does not happen in KSP, I even tried to change the CoL of each flap to be in their CoM instead of the hinge point where all the other KSP parts have it but it made no different and made my Unity setup harder to deal with, so I reverted it.
This combined with the flaps being smaller than SN8-16(other Starship mods) and creating less drag.

Edit: Also, I originally calculated the general weight of the ship based on the real one, and I ended up with engines that werent able to do what the real one did even on test flight, as in, hovering with a single engine. So I lowered it, resulting in lower terminal velocity, I even buffed my CryoEngines raptors to be what Raptor 2 *might be*. This, you can blame on the stupid scaling KSP has for weight and thrust values. I'm tempted to honestly ditch stock KSP and go completely real-scale so I don't need to deal with doing all this, I hate math.

I don't like the idea of copy-pasting configs that other modders made, I'm figuring it all out on my own. You're free to do that yourself, I heard Kari's starship has a good balance. Tho probably unrealistic based on the changes SpaceX has made to the flaps.

Edited November 2, 2021 by EritoKaio

[Staticalliam7]

On 11/1/2021 at 7:26 AM, Janus92 said:

I've noticed that the balance of Mass and Lift is not ideal:

In the picture below the Center of Lift is too far forward compared to the Center of Mass. Yet it is (only just) in a stable descent. That's because drag is also a factor in balancing the ship. The  pitch-up moment (from CoL in front of CoM) is now only countered with a lot of extra drag from the Aft Flaps, less drag from the Fwd Flaps, and with the reaction wheels (which in an ideal case should not have to do work at all).

hey but at least it's easier to flip when you need it

[Janus92]

15 hours ago, EritoKaio said:

Starship is designed to be capable of also bringing payloads down. Meaning if if the center of mass is not further back than the center of lift you will end up with a very heavy nosecone and nosedive on reentry. I have to find a balance that works for both an empty and a filled nosecone.

The CoM of the nose is further higher because there's this thing called header tank at the very tip that has LOX in it, and should be set to remain full by lowering the flow priority of it, also helping the general center of mass of the ship.
The ship is also designed to have the main tanks basically empty during a bellyflop, other than the methane tank. If you notice, the tank section doesn't have a perfect ratio between LF and Ox, because I moved some of it's Ox to the header tank.

As for the roll imbalance, there's not much I can do, because KSP does not update the center of lift in real-time based on the flap angle, when the flaps are slightly folded the CoL should also move slightly leeward which would create a natural roll balance. This does not happen in KSP, I even tried to change the CoL of each flap to be in their CoM instead of the hinge point where all the other KSP parts have it but it made no different and made my Unity setup harder to deal with, so I reverted it.
This combined with the flaps being smaller than SN8-16(other Starship mods) and creating less drag.

Edit: Also, I originally calculated the general weight of the ship based on the real one, and I ended up with engines that werent able to do what the real one did even on test flight, as in, hovering with a single engine. So I lowered it, resulting in lower terminal velocity, I even buffed my CryoEngines raptors to be what Raptor 2 *might be*. This, you can blame on the stupid scaling KSP has for weight and thrust values. I'm tempted to honestly ditch stock KSP and go completely real-scale so I don't need to deal with doing all this, I hate math.

I don't like the idea of copy-pasting configs that other modders made, I'm figuring it all out on my own. You're free to do that yourself, I heard Kari's starship has a good balance. Tho probably unrealistic based on the changes SpaceX has made to the flaps.

Ah yes, I forgot that Starship is supposed to bring down payloads as well. And the header tank is a good reason to place the nose sections CoM so far forward. Those are good points!

Is there any word out on how much mass the real starship could bring down? I can't imagine that it's anywhere close to what it can bring up, because it's still limited by how effective the flaps are. It must also have the same tight CoM margins.

KSP's aerodynamics and scaling are not great indeed. But I'm sure you'll find a good balance. Your dedication is noteworthy to say the least!

 

Anyway I'm already having a blast. My kOS script has no issues flying and landing your ship back onto the launchpad with some counterweight.

[EritoKaio]

5 hours ago, Janus92 said:

Ah yes, I forgot that Starship is supposed to bring down payloads as well. And the header tank is a good reason to place the nose sections CoM so far forward. Those are good points!

Is there any word out on how much mass the real starship could bring down? I can't imagine that it's anywhere close to what it can bring up, because it's still limited by how effective the flaps are. It must also have the same tight CoM margins.

KSP's aerodynamics and scaling are not great indeed. But I'm sure you'll find a good balance. Your dedication is noteworthy to say the least!

 

Anyway I'm already having a blast. My kOS script has no issues flying and landing your ship back onto the launchpad with some counterweight.

Yeah I don't think SpaceX/Elon has mentioned the downmass, but I would also guess its much lower because of the balance. I will tweak it as more info comes out.
I also work with all the other space 3D artists and we have hundreds of references to work with together, and some people who know a lot more than me.

Glad you're enjoying it! I'm currently working in the skirt section of the ship and hope to have another visual update soon. Booster is going a bit slow because there's a lot of changes being done to B4 atm like the engine cover/skirt and some aero covers for the electronics & COPVs.

Also to add to this, I made a template that other modders can use as reference for my Starship GSE Panel, so we can all keep it consistent, specially those making GSE mods with catch & QD arms.

Edited November 3, 2021 by EritoKaio

[Starwaster]

On 11/2/2021 at 2:27 PM, EritoKaio said:

As for the roll imbalance, there's not much I can do, because KSP does not update the center of lift in real-time based on the flap angle, when the flaps are slightly folded the CoL should also move slightly leeward which would create a natural roll balance. This does not happen in KSP

Boldfaced and italicized text is not accurate. Center of lift does change as flaps are angled or deployed. 

Or at least the stock flaps do when attached to the vehicle in the stock manner. If yours are attached differently then that may not be the case. Tundra's flaps ran into trouble because of the way they were attached or controlled.

(Caveat: Stock CoL changes are not displayed in the hangar however. If debugging in flight however and you have a means of displaying CoL then you can see the changes. MechJeb has such a )