Drawing in new people

[ChubbyCat]

A lot of people have heard of ksp, but not a lot actually are fans. It’s a relatively small community compared to many other games. I think many people tried the first game but quit early because it was too hard or complicated, thinking “it’s just not for me”. I know the developers are aware of this, hence the fun tutorials, and a lot of what they talked about in the episode 3 features video. But, I hope there will maybe be some better advertising or something later on to actually draw these people in. Someone who tried ksp years ago and got confused and quit probably isn’t going to hear about the sequel, and jump on excitedly because someone told them there are tutorials. I just hope it all gets the recognition it deserves!

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, ChubbyCat said:

A lot of people have heard of ksp, but not a lot actually are fans. It’s a relatively small community compared to many other games. I think many people tried the first game but quit early because it was too hard or complicated, thinking “it’s just not for me”. I know the developers are aware of this, hence the fun tutorials, and a lot of what they talked about in the episode 3 features video. But, I hope there will maybe be some better advertising or something later on to actually draw these people in. Someone who tried ksp years ago and got confused and quit probably isn’t going to hear about the sequel, and jump on excitedly because someone told them there are tutorials. I just hope it all gets the recognition it deserves!

There will definitely be a marketing campaign, but not until it is a month or two out from release like most games.

[TLTay]

1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

There will definitely be a marketing campaign, but not until it is a month or two out from release like most games.

Marketing campaign started in mid 2019. I still watch the announce trailer from time to time and fancy that we'll be lithobraking soon.

[The Aziz]

It went full on back then because it was supposed to be out only a year later. Then it kinda tuned down, almost to nothing as the release date got pushed more into the future, leaving only the dev team here with relatively frequent updates, but mostly for long time fans. Who from general public would like to know how they handle collisions, orbit lines or how some specific parts look? Yeah, exactly. But now, with 22 around the corner, the campaign for the masses is going to roll out again soon.  -ish. 

if they handle it well, and I'm sure they will, they're gonna interest some people, at least even remotely interested in spaceflight, sim fans, construction and demolition fans... It still won't be a game for everyone (to this day I see people asking how someone can play a truck sim, it's sooooo boring, right?) But I'm sure more people will want to take a peek. More than in KSP1 at least, purely because of polish, improvements and looks.

[Brofessional]

Improved tutorials will definitely help, but I think the biggest thing that will draw in new players is the addition of multiplayer.

[dave1904]

On the contrary. Its a massive community for a 10 year old game. Most games loose 90% of the playerbase after the first month or so.  

The main reason most people do not care about KSP is because most people do not care about rockets and space travel. Its unbelievable how ignorant the vast majority of people are. KSP is not made for ignorant people. You cannot force people to care. Marketing is all that matters. The people that are into a game like ksp need to be aware of KSP. Once they buy it they are hooked. 

I honestly think tutorials will not have much effect on keeping players around. Someone without the patience to learn the game by themselves does not have the patience to learn with a tutorial because youtube is a better tutorial than anything the devs can come up with. People that are into the game will learn it by themselves and look up tips themselves because they WANT to learn. 

I also do not believe multiplayer will draw in alot of new players. Singleplayer games do well even today but they are bad at keeping players around. Competitive multiplayer is what keeps people engaged in the long run anyway. Multiplayer is a feature KSP players want but it will not make someone that is not into KSP want KSP..... If you are not into a game you are not going to just stick around because it has multiplayer. 

I never heard about KSP until found scott manleys elite dangerous videos. Youtube autoplay decided to play interstellar quest after that and I remember falling in love with KSP the second I saw it. How come I never heard of KSP until 2015? Marketing. Scott Manley has sold more copies of KSP than anyone else. 

[WelshSteW]

I think interest in space travel and rockets in general has increased massively recently, with the likes of SpaceX, Blue Origin, Virgin Galactic etc. 2022 has some really important (imo) flights and tests scheduled, so it could be that the timing of KSP2 is actually pretty good.

[pandaman]

2 hours ago, dave1904 said:

 

I honestly think tutorials will not have much effect on keeping players around. Someone without the patience to learn the game by themselves does not have the patience to learn with a tutorial because youtube is a better tutorial than anything the devs can come up with. People that are into the game will learn it by themselves and look up tips themselves because they WANT to learn

I would tend to disagree with this.

The tutorials/instructions in KSP do not help players anywhere near as much as they should, to the point where the ONLY real way to learn is through unofficial YouTube videos.

If a game (any game) can't provide adequate instructions, built in and/or with links to quality 'official' or at least 'officially approved' tutorials, that will put many people off.

Yes, those that really want to learn will search, but many others will just get frustrated because 'it is hard' and then give up because the game itself does nothing to help them.

 

[Gargamel]

6 minutes ago, pandaman said:

I would tend to disagree with this

I would agree with you. 

One of the most common complaints we see from new players on the forums is "The tutorial is broken!   I need to do xyz, and it won't let me".     I don't think there were tutorials in the Alpha stage when I got into this game, and so we had Scott's videos and the forums.   And because we didn't have tutorials, we told subsequent adopters of the game they didn't need them either.    And so on.

KSP is about rocket surgery.    It's got a pretty steep learning curve for a cartoonish game about little green creatures.   It looks easy on the surface... but it's not.    We lose a lot of new players from not having good in game instruction.   Having solid, fun, tutorials will go a long way to cementing the new player base. 

[The Aziz]

8 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

It's got a pretty steep learning curve

Or, my two favourite versions of it, learning wall, or learning onion.

[dave1904]

5 hours ago, pandaman said:

I would tend to disagree with this.

The tutorials/instructions in KSP do not help players anywhere near as much as they should, to the point where the ONLY real way to learn is through unofficial YouTube videos.

If a game (any game) can't provide adequate instructions, built in and/or with links to quality 'official' or at least 'officially approved' tutorials, that will put many people off.

Yes, those that really want to learn will search, but many others will just get frustrated because 'it is hard' and then give up because the game itself does nothing to help them.

 

It will help but I doubt it will make a big difference but then again that is the point. Every feature that keeps players around will add up. Mods will no doubt be the main reason KSP2 players will stay around but that is assuming KSP2 will be a good game. 

[AtomicTech]

On 12/4/2021 at 2:52 PM, TLTay said:

fancy that we'll be lithobraking soon.

Ugh, that still hurts 

9 hours ago, dave1904 said:

Scott Manley has sold more copies of KSP than anyone else. 

So when is Private Division giving him the Employee of the Century Award?

[Gargamel]

5 hours ago, AtomicTech said:

So when is Private Division giving him the Employee of the Century Award?

I doubt it, since the majority of his KSP work was before SQUAD was part of PD/TTi.  He’s mainly a space flight guy now that uses KSP occasionally.   

[Brofessional]

21 hours ago, dave1904 said:

I also do not believe multiplayer will draw in alot of new players. Singleplayer games do well even today but they are bad at keeping players around. Competitive multiplayer is what keeps people engaged in the long run anyway. Multiplayer is a feature KSP players want but it will not make someone that is not into KSP want KSP..... If you are not into a game you are not going to just stick around because it has multiplayer. 

Multiplayer adds a social element and makes it much easier for fans of the game to get their friends into it.  The learning curve also becomes smoother when you've got someone in-game with you that can help you out.

Will all of those people still be playing the game years later? Of course not, but they will have bought the game.

[The Aziz]

It's like this for everything, isn't it? Some people come and go, some stay, some can't be bothered to even try. 

[Pthigrivi]

I don't usually worry about this kind of thing. We know that the fundamentals--building rockets and flying them--are pretty great. My big hope is that the adventure mode and colony building mechanics are really tight, because that whole feedback and growth system is what will make the game truly enduring. If so I think they've got a chance to bring in a really interesting mix of gamers--flight sim folks, city-builders, space nerds, Factorio/DSP people, and the whole Minecraft crowd. Not that it wants to be anywhere as fussy as hardcore flight sims or Factorio, but the underlying process of building efficient systems and creatively harvesting and building are all there. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Pthigrivi

[AtomicTech]

34 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

I don't usually worry about this kind of thing. We know that the fundamentals--building rockets and flying them--are pretty great. My big hope is that the adventure mode and colony building mechanics are really tight, because that whole feedback and growth system is what will make the game truly enduring. If so I think they've got a chance to bring in a really interesting mix of gamers--flight sim folks, city-builders, space nerds, Factorio/DSP people, and the whole Minecraft crowd. Not that it wants to be anywhere as fussy as hardcore flight sims or Factorio, but the underlying process of building efficient systems and creatively harvesting and building are all there. 

I second that!

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

flight sim folks, city-builders, space nerds, Factorio/DSP people, and the whole Minecraft crowd

WOW, I'm in every single one of those groups. Lately I've been enjoying Minecraft 1.18 new terrain gen and caves.

[The Aziz]

Yeah, that's not exactly a mix of gamers, that's one type of gamers who like all these. Chill, creative, explorative(?), management games.

[Pthigrivi]

True there can be a lot of overlap there. I don’t really do flight or driving sims and weirdly I don’t play minecraft (maybe a few times like 10 years ago?) Im usually more into city builders and rpgs. 

[Klapaucius]

On 12/6/2021 at 1:37 AM, dave1904 said:

The main reason most people do not care about KSP is because most people do not care about rockets and space travel. Its unbelievable how ignorant the vast majority of people are. KSP is not made for ignorant people. You cannot force people to care. 

I love KSP, but this is an unfair statement. There is a lot of information in the world, and none of us can even be remotely well-versed in a fraction of it. My wife knows little about space travel, but she can tell you a hell of a lot about animal science and veterinary medicine, not to mention infectious disease.  She also has a massive vocabulary  and can whitewater kayak.  She is learning Italian.

I know a lot less about space travel than many on this forum, but can probably hold my own on world history, Russian literature, classical music and swift-water rescue (I also kayak).   I can almost guarantee I know more about that last subject than likely anyone else on this forum. 

There are a lot of folks out there who would look at KSP gamers and write them off as knowing nothing because they play games. This is of course nonsense, based on assumptions. But equally, because folks are not well-versed in space travel does not mean they are ignorant.   We should not assume folks know nothing because they don't hold the same expertise that we do.  How much do we all know about marine science? Botany? Contemporary West African politics?  The history of the enlightenment? 

The main thing is to always be curious.

[dave1904]

13 hours ago, Klapaucius said:

I love KSP, but this is an unfair statement. There is a lot of information in the world, and none of us can even be remotely well-versed in a fraction of it. My wife knows little about space travel, but she can tell you a hell of a lot about animal science and veterinary medicine, not to mention infectious disease.  She also has a massive vocabulary  and can whitewater kayak.  She is learning Italian.

I know a lot less about space travel than many on this forum, but can probably hold my own on world history, Russian literature, classical music and swift-water rescue (I also kayak).   I can almost guarantee I know more about that last subject than likely anyone else on this forum. 

There are a lot of folks out there who would look at KSP gamers and write them off as knowing nothing because they play games. This is of course nonsense, based on assumptions. But equally, because folks are not well-versed in space travel does not mean they are ignorant.   We should not assume folks know nothing because they don't hold the same expertise that we do.  How much do we all know about marine science? Botany? Contemporary West African politics?  The history of the enlightenment? 

The main thing is to always be curious.

It was a bit extreme and I was hoping noone would call me out on it. You're very nice because it was a stupid statement and not an unfair one.