VTOL craft

[tremonthedgehog]

I'm looking for some VTOL aircraft topic on the spacecraft exchange and I couldn't find any so I decided to create my own.

could the creations their post here please have a download link preferably stock but moded is fine.

if there is already a forum for please link to it

i would also be fine with VTOL tips 

 

[Scoopapa]

Why yes, I have several VTOLs to share!

Meadow Hawk - Low Tech VTOL

Craft File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ai70xib7nzuhg7/Meadow Hawk.craft?dl=0

Description: Just a simple VTOL without many tech requirements, fun to fly around.

Action Groups:

1: Toggle engine position between flight and hover

2: Toggle forward tilt of engines ( braking position )

3: Toggle engine power

Custom Axis 1: Adjust engine tilt

 

Ghost - Hybrid VTOL Prop Plane

Craft File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/59faqu2om496pew/Ghost Tutorial.craft?dl=0

Description: A hybrid plane / helicopter(?) that notably has full 6 directional translation control (it can strafe midair). It uses 8 robotics controllers to map various movements onto the rotation and translation controls. It also manages to function without reaction wheels if you really want it to, a testament to the amount of tweaking that was done on it.

Action Groups: 

1 - Hover Mode

2 - Plane Mode

 

Scarab - VTOL Utility Tug

Craft File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3e2le3h6fink4n/Scarab Mk_ 2.craft?dl=0

Description: Interplanetary tug that can do almost anything. Towing, mining, asteroid capture, ground-based refueling for other craft, you name it. It can't land on Laythe, Eve, or Kerbin, and needs help to land on Tylo. It's also limited by its ~4200 dV. Otherwise, It's a total beast. (Plus it can tow extra fuel tanks, that's how it can land on Tylo)

Action Groups: I don't remember, but I know they are for engine positions, mining on/off, and priming the grabbing arms

 

Sandpiper Mk. II - Duna Spaceplane

Craft File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bz33ydvk8xqrop/Sandpiper Mk_ 2.craft?dl=0

Description: A plane made to fly in the thin atmosphere of Duna. VTOL capability is absolutely essential for this to be feasible. It needs help getting to Duna and refueling support once there if you want it to stick around. It can reach Kerbin from the surface of Duna, though. It's pretty fun to glide around on a planet with very little atmospheric drag or gravity.

Action Groups: I think it's just 1 and 2 for engine position, maybe one more for solar panels. Custom Axis 1 moves the engines for sure.

 

Seagull Mk. III - VTOL / SSTO

Craft File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xl8m5hexjsyijj6/Seagull Mk_ III.craft?dl=0

Description: A spaceplane made to explore Laythe, it can reach Kerbin and Laythe LKO on its own. It has mining capability to sustain itself once it reaches Laythe. It also has a small robotic arm that can be used to tow small craft such as rovers. It needs refueling in LKO to reach Laythe (and vice versa), and you might want to get an orbital scanner over Laythe before you send it, to find the good mining spots (hint: the poles).

Action Groups: 

1 - flight position ( SAS Hold, Control Point forwards )

2 - hover position

3 - open / close cargo bay

4 - deploy / undeploy docking arm

5 - toggle Rapier engine mode

6 - toggle NERVA engine on/off

7 - toggle Rapier engine on/off

8 - toggle mining on/off

9 - extend/retract solar panel and antenna

0 - hover mode ( SAS Radial Out, Control Point up )

Custom Axis 1 - engine tilt

 

You can see all of these craft in action on my Youtube Channel

Edited December 19, 2021 by Scoopapa

[tremonthedgehog]

thank so much maybe you could try and find others VTOLs and invite them to the forum

[NyetiArts]

I've started playing around with VTOL craft and was particularly struck by Sandubba’s Stratz VTOL.  My imitation isn't as elegant, but I'm still proud to have built and flown the Harpy VTOL.

It's fully autonomous and uses three Panthers for vertical lift and a Goliath for forward thrust.

It's capable of precise landings...

... and sustained flight, with a capacity of six kerbals and a range of 1300km.

Craft file here.

Edited December 31, 2021 by NyetiArts
Better lighting in picture

[WaveyD]

Updated with details. Think it's ok for a 1st post.

I've made a few.

This one uses robotic arms to gimbal the engines. Lands on the engines too which is a little tricky. Added some panels next the engines to give better than 7m/s part death (not in pic). Transitions to horizontal flight and back etc.

VTOL Bug

Craft Details

Mass: 5.65t

Cost: 25,610.0

No. of Stages: 2 (There's no staging required)

Crew Capacity: 1

Part Count: 71 (Well...pretty lights are nice and 12 KALs...hmmm one or two must be spare)

No. of Struts: 0

Root Part: Mark2Cockpit ( Best with the glass clear obviously, facial expressions are important)

Built in KSP 1.12.3

Size: 5.58 x 3.57 x 5.66

Resources: ElectricCharge, IntakeAir, LiquidFuel, MonoPropellant (The cockpit tank...not used)
KSP DLCs Making History / Breaking Ground  (The second DLC correctly describes early flight testing)

 

Kerbal X craft page

 

https://kerbalx.com/WaveyD/VTOL-BUG

 

Kerbal X download

 

download VTOL BUG

 

The thrust axis is below the mass which helps with those tiny wings.

This next one uses lift engines in cargo bays. Nice way to vanish the drag once closed.

VTOL Full Flap Wings

 

Mass: 7.71t

Cost: 32,851.0

No. of Stages: 2

Crew Capacity: 1

Part Count: 41

No. of Struts: 0

Root Part: Mark2Cockpit

Built in: KSP 1.12.3

Size: 7.0 x 3.11 x 9.47

Resources: ElectricCharge, IntakeAir, LiquidFuel, MonoPropellant
KSP DLCs: Breaking Ground

 

Kerbal X craft page

 

https://kerbalx.com/WaveyD/VTOL-Full-Flap-Wings

 

Kerbal X download

 

download VTOL Full Flap Wings

Also used the big shuttle flaps for wings which with the lift engines leads to some very short take off runs but in normal flight they have to have minimal deflection or it just stops dead and falls like a leaf.

 

Simple is the way to start i think. This one (below) again used two juno per cargo bay, KALs hidden in there too. Once closed and after burner engaged -> 1000m/s.

VTOL Fuel Balance

Mass: 6.93t

Cost: 27,401.0

No. of Stages: 2

Crew Capacity: 1

Part Count: 35

No. of Struts: 0

Root Part: Mark2Cockpit

Built in: KSP 1.12.2

Size: 6.94 x 3.11 x 9.47

Resources: ElectricCharge, IntakeAir, LiquidFuel, MonoPropellant

KSP DLCs: Breaking Ground

 

Kerbal X craft page

 

https://kerbalx.com/WaveyD/VTOL-Fuel-Balance

 

Kerbal X download

 

download VTOL Fuel Balance

 

The problem is always control at speeds where the aero isn't working. Without thrust gimbal you have to rely on reaction wheels which is annoying or thrusters which need either mono prop or oxi. You can change the thrust limits via KALs linked to pitch/roll/yaw bang bang but the Juno's do not do anything quickly so a no go really.

I have a weird hatred of auto strut so i tend to make small craft and as you start to add tanks with oxi add this, add that suddenly you are adding more lift engines or more arms and and and drag and it becomes a monster. Small craft like these the cockpit RW is enough.

The little craft at the begining of this post has RW SAS only, stability just to calm things down, the pitch/roll/yaw comes from thrust vector alone, you can use it without any RW but the work rate is high. Works well after much toying around.

The biggest VTOL tips i could give is to be very careful with COG/thrust vector and the amount of authority you have to control the orientation of the craft. A very small movement of the thrust vector in relation to the COG will produce an ever increasing roll/pitch/yaw rate and as it increases your ability to counter it does not, very quickly you are upside down. If you can can counter it before it gets too much then you have to stay on top of it which reduces your ability to do other things and increases control work load. Chances of a crash go up massively.  So best to achieve a very neutral craft in the hover, one that sits there on it's cushion of air.

Next, the COG shifting due to fuel usage. You can take care of this by placing your fuel in the centre of your craft so that the COG doesn't shift at all. Another method is to have a KAL running across time changing the thrust limits of the lifting engines. You would need a KAL for each type of engine. So the craft directly above you would have a KAL with a length of the burn time for the panther (oh ! and a 3rd KAL for after burning...change of thrust limit now X3) and a KAL with a length of the burn for the 4 Juno. Each time as if only that engine set was running and at full throttle. Whever these engines are running, that KAL is also running, toggled on/off. The play speed of each KAL is then linked to the main throttle. You figure out thrust limits for full fuel and no fuel and set them into the KALs. So as the KAL runs from begining to end it goes from one thrust limit to another but you have to double the change in the thrust limit because the two KALs will average out. It works except there is always an error which will increase with time depending on what you are doing, how fast and how high. However, it gives a good enough window. Obviously if you only have 1 set of engines which are used for both horizontal and vertical flight then you only need 1 KAL and there's no average so simple full/empty thrust limits.

Also do not go vertically up or down too quickly unless you have taken into account the aero of doing so. A nice big delta wing craft will pitch nose up in a disturbing way beyond a certain rate of climb in vertical flight...opposite with negative climb rates. When travelling in that orientation the rear of the craft has more drag than the front.

Of course the easiest way is to just throw huge RW wheels at it.

My craft are on steam workshop. Just search vtol bug and the 1st craft in this post should show up. If not just ask iI think i can dropbox.

Edited January 5, 2022 by WaveyD

[Chladic88]

Im adding here my own VTOL as well:

 

craft file here

It is using 10 Juno engines and one Panther engine. Juno engines provides vertical trust for vertical landing and take off. Panther engine provide horizontal trust with enough power to fly over 300 m/s.

 

Btw, does blimps counts as VTOL as well or not?

Edited January 4, 2022 by Chladic88

[WaveyD]

I count anything that takes off from a launch pad as vertical take off. I made a plane with sepratrons pointing down and another set pointing forward. Take off from the pad was fine and with practice...and a little luck...you could land back on it too using the forward facing sepratrons as dead stop brakes.

Nice use of that cockpit, i can never use it, everything i make with it looks awful.

 

 By the way i notice you say you can use the craft without SAS...you are still using a reaction wheel ?

[Chladic88]

1 hour ago, WaveyD said:

By the way i notice you say you can use the craft without SAS...you are still using a reaction wheel ?

Yes, even if you dont have SAS enabled, the reaction wheels are working in regards of the inputs. That means, if you will be on orbit and turn SAS off, you can start spinning  pretty fast without using monopropelant (beware kraken ).
Every (or almost) controllable cabin has its own reaction wheel. But if you create something really heavy, the torque of the reaction wheel will be so weak, it will do nothing.

Also for VTOL which is using rocket engines i would recommend using mod named as TCA - it is mod which controls the trust of each engines independently to secure the stability. It is really good mod and i use it a lot.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Chladic88

[WaveyD]

53 minutes ago, Chladic88 said:

Yes, even if you dont have SAS enabled, the reaction wheels are working in regards of the inputs. That means, if you will be on orbit and turn SAS off, you can start spinning  pretty fast without using monopropelant (beware kraken ).
Every (or almost) controllable cabin has its own reaction wheel. But if you create something really heavy, the torque of the reaction wheel will be so weak, it will do nothing.

Also for VTOL which is using rocket engines i would recommend using mod named as TCA - it is mod which controls the trust of each engines independently to secure the stability. It is really good mod and i use it a lot.

Yeah i steer clear of mods. I tried a few and it i found the game loses its challenges. You can always link thrusts through a KAL to the inputs but never to the SAS which is annoying but that's the game. I'm always looking for novel ways to control VTOL craft without the need for any reaction wheel. However, as with the VTOL BUG above I often tend to have it on SAS only just for a calming effect. I'm quite keen on using the thrust plates at the moment. Mount a servo, mount a cargo bay with some junos inside and the craft continues attached to the 'non staged' and 'without shroud' other end of the thrust plate. Allows free rotation of the cargo bay independant to the rest of the craft. With that left right, front and rear you can get pitch/roll and yaw from it. Fuel supply is an issue though. Doesn't not seem possible to pass fuel across a thrust plate. Of course the panther engines have gimbals linked to SAS but they are a bit big. I know there's solutions out there with mods but I have a strange attraction to building stock. It's all good.

[TheFlyingKerman]

One of my first attempts at VTOL . I go all electric so there is no need to worry about fuel or ISRU, a particularly big problem for Laythe.

https://kerbalx.com/TheFlyingKerman/Electra-2A

I try to make the operation semi-automatic, so the action groups are quite complicated.

Action groups:

Gear: Lower landing gear and flaps, cancel propeller pitch
Brake: Brake for landing gearing and slowing down motor, unlock motors
Throttle: Motor RPM and torque
AG5: Lock hinge and lock motors
AG6: Set horizontal reference
AG7: Set vertical reference
Custom axis1: Hinge tilt and propeller pitch

Vertical takeoff:

Set vertical reference.
Set SAS to radial in.
Briefly press brake to unlock landing gear and motor.
Throttle up to 60%.
When plane is about 200m above ground, set SAS to hold.
Set horizontal reference.
Set throttle down to 50% (40% on Kerbin), the plane should be going up at low speed.
Slowly tilt the rotor (custom axis 1) down while keeping the plane horizontal (it tends to pitch up).
The speed should be increasing quite quickly to about 100 m/s when the rotors are horizontal (the hinge is deliberately slow to allow time to accelerate).
Retract landing gear.
Turn to full throttle and climb at 10 degrees.

Vertical landing:

Throttle down and slow to about 80 m/s and 200 m above ground.
Extend landing gear.
Set throttle to 50% (40% on Kerbin).
Slowly tilt the rotor (custom axis 1) up while keeping the plane horizontal.
When the rotors are vertical, pitch up 10 degrees to cancel the remaining horizontal speed.
Set vertical reference.
Set SAS to radial in.
Set throttle so that the plane is just hovering or slowly accelerating upwards.
Tap brake, this slows down the motor temporarily and makes the plane go down at a low, controlled speed.
Descend at below 7 m/s, above which the propeller blades stalls, in that case increase throttle to arrest the descend.
Hover at 2 m above ground, then throttle down a little for a soft landing.
Hit brake and cut engine.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by TheFlyingKerman

[tremonthedgehog]

if you have permission you may post someone else's craft

[mister_goo]

Another VTOL with engine in service bay:

The cockpit is from the AirplanePlus mod and the tail fin is from the Firespitter mod. Maximum speed is 1.8 mach, although it takes half of the fuel to accelerate to 1.8 mach.

 

[tremonthedgehog]

I have a challenge for those that are watching this forum soon I will be posting two craft files one is a jet ski the other is a Vtol of my own design can anyone try and use the docking port on the Vtol to dock with the jet ski and take the jet ski out to the water I have vessel movers so that's not a problem but I was wondering if it's possible when I tried I was always just a centimeter off and I would have to go back up again and try again