The Skyhawk Science System - a new, realistic tech tree for KSP, now including Kerbalism support - [v1.1.1 - "For Science!" 8/11/22)]

[TaintedLion]

58 minutes ago, bigyihsuan said:

it does, but my info windows were erased for some reason so i had to remake them as custom windows from the presets

Do I need a new save for it to work?

[bigyihsuan]

31 minutes ago, TaintedLion said:

Do I need a new save for it to work?

Honestly I have no idea what's going on with my patch and it needs to be tested to verify it actually works

and whether or not unlocking mechjeb in the correct node will do anything

 

AND

I just noticed that the selector in the repo is "MechJeb2-dev", but I have MechJeb installed under "MechJeb2". Maybe this is why MechJeb support wasn't working for me initially.

[TaintedLion]

2 minutes ago, bigyihsuan said:

I just noticed that the selector in the repo is "MechJeb2-dev", but I have MechJeb installed under "MechJeb2". Maybe this is why MechJeb support wasn't working for me initially.

Hmm, I have Mechjeb downloaded from CKAN, do I need to download the dev branch manually?

[bigyihsuan]

23 minutes ago, TaintedLion said:

Hmm, I have Mechjeb downloaded from CKAN, do I need to download the dev branch manually?

I think the quick fix would be to add "-dev" to your MechJeb folder, and report back to see if it works

if you can see the MechJeb part upgrades in the tech tree, then that means the patches work

[TaintedLion]

1 hour ago, bigyihsuan said:

I think the quick fix would be to add "-dev" to your MechJeb folder, and report back to see if it works

if you can see the MechJeb part upgrades in the tech tree, then that means the patches work

Okay so I didn't see the upgrades in the tech tree, but it works. The icons in the Toolbar mod are pink though, but I can live with that.

[eberkain]

FYI, mechjeb already has a feature to unlock all the functions for free, just create an empty folder called MechJebUnlocked in GameData.  

[TaintedLion]

Is this compatible with RSS?

[bigyihsuan]

1 hour ago, TaintedLion said:

Is this compatible with RSS?

According to the Planet Pack Support wiki page, looks like RSS should work.

I'm doing GPP which isn't on the list, but I've been doing fine in that save (probably because of the Iota essentially being subbed in for the Mun/Moon).

Any planet pack that has a Mun/Moon-like moon to the starting planet and has stock-like science values could probably work with the tree, since the tree (and BDB) has the Kane parts right about when you've exhausted all the science you can get with probes from the Moon.

[TaintedLion]

4 minutes ago, bigyihsuan said:

According to the Planet Pack Support wiki page, looks like RSS should work.

I'm doing GPP which isn't on the list, but I've been doing fine in that save (probably because of the Iota essentially being subbed in for the Mun/Moon).

Any planet pack that has a Mun/Moon-like moon to the starting planet and has stock-like science values could probably work with the tree, since the tree (and BDB) has the Kane parts right about when you've exhausted all the science you can get with probes from the Moon.

It says KSRSS works, not full-scale RSS.

[bigyihsuan]

I'd imagine if you install SMURFF/Real Fuels and configure it for RSS you'd probably have the same experience as stock+KSRSS.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:50 AM, eberkain said:

cryotanks and restock are both on the supported mods list, so i would assume they have been checked out.  

 

I do get these caused by the hypergolics patch.  

[ERR 18:46:04.515] Error - Cannot parse variable search when replacing (%) key lfo_volume = #$RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]/maxAmount$
[ERR 18:46:04.516] Error - Cannot parse variable search when replacing (%) key ox_volume = #$RESOURCE[Oxidizer]/maxAmount$
[WRN 18:46:04.516] Cannot find key lfo_volume in PART
[ERR 18:46:04.516] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key amount = #$/lfo_volume$
[WRN 18:46:04.516] Cannot find key lfo_volume in PART
[ERR 18:46:04.516] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key maxAmount = #$/lfo_volume$
[WRN 18:46:04.516] Cannot find key ox_volume in PART
[ERR 18:46:04.516] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key amount = #$/ox_volume$
[WRN 18:46:04.516] Cannot find key ox_volume in PART
[ERR 18:46:04.516] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key maxAmount = #$/ox_volume$

not sure if anyone else is seeing the same, may be one of the part mods I'm using causing the issue. . 
 

EDIT: This is caused by something in Rational Resources Squad option on CKAN. 

I wouldn't recommend adding in any of the Rational Resource addons that modify fuel tankage, as SSS already has a catch-all patch which should hit every tank, so it's pretty liable to have issues when it interacts with them. Also, CKAN in general, at least in my experience, seems to lead to more errors than manual installs for whatever reason.

On 1/9/2022 at 5:08 PM, TaintedLion said:

Is this compatible with RSS?

I'll investigate compatibility right now - I think I just need to add on a RSS term in the needs block for KSRSS as the bodies are all the same, just with different sizes. I don't know, however, how the hypergolic tankage and engines will interact with mods such as SMURFF

I'm going to be looking into the mechjeb issue today or tommorow, and will try and have a full patch out then.

[eberkain]

Any thoughts on using Better SRBs with this?   

 

[KeaKaka]

Issue with the BDB Titan III Transtage:

[CessnaSkyhawk]

12 hours ago, eberkain said:

Any thoughts on using Better SRBs with this?   

 

It shouldn't have any issues as I don't touch solid rocket boosters aside from placing them. However the custom SRBs it adds wouldn't be placed. I'll look into adding support though.

11 hours ago, KeaKaka said:

Issue with the BDB Titan III Transtage:

I've loaded up an instance to investigate, but I'm not seeing anything on my transtage. What mods do you have installed?

[eberkain]

what do you recommend for the science reward % setting?   I can get 50 science on my very first launch with just transmitting telemetry.  With less than 10 launches I was able to completely research all of the sub 100 nodes.  There are so many experiments that can transmit data that there really isn't any choice to be made in progression, there is plenty of science available to just research everything in each tier.  

I really am enjoying the mod, you did a great job with it. 

Am I correct in understanding that all mods will have to have configs for their parts to show up at all in this tree? 

[CessnaSkyhawk]

2 minutes ago, eberkain said:

what do you recommend for the science reward % setting?   I can get 50 science on my very first launch with just transmitting telemetry.  With less than 10 launches I was able to completely research all of the sub 100 nodes.  There are so many experiments that can transmit data that there really isn't any choice to be made in progression, there is plenty of science available to just research everything in each tier.  

I really am enjoying the mod, you did a great job with it. 

Am I correct in understanding that all mods will have to have configs for their parts to show up at all in this tree? 

I recommend a 100% science rewards, but what you seem to be experiencing seems to be quite a bit higher that what I've seen. By chance, are you in a stock size solar system or a 2.5x scale solar system? The science values tend to be balanced more around 2.5x scale by default, so if you are at a stock scale I'd recommend lowering the reward% a decent bit.

And yes, you are correct that all mods will need configs to show up - I am looking into setting up a emergency patch to allow for unsupported mods to still show up.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Version 1.0.1 - "Whoops!"

Mod Support and Enhancements

• MOAR Station Science Support
• Kip Docking Ports Support
• Improved support for Procedural Parts and Procedural Fairings
• RSS science value support

Bugfixes

• BDB Contract support fixed
• MechJeb Feature unlocks properly placed on tech tree
• Hypergolics added to NF Exploration Tanks
• Poodle Engine made hypergolic and moved to proper node

Edited January 11, 2022 by CessnaSkyhawk

[eberkain]

48 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I recommend a 100% science rewards, but what you seem to be experiencing seems to be quite a bit higher that what I've seen. By chance, are you in a stock size solar system or a 2.5x scale solar system? The science values tend to be balanced more around 2.5x scale by default, so if you are at a stock scale I'd recommend lowering the reward% a decent bit.

And yes, you are correct that all mods will need configs to show up - I am looking into setting up a emergency patch to allow for unsupported mods to still show up.

I am playing on JNSQ

[KeaKaka]

2 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I've loaded up an instance to investigate, but I'm not seeing anything on my transtage. What mods do you have installed?

Modslist in the spoiler below:

Spoiler

000_ClickThroughBlocker
000_TexturesUnlimited
001_ToolbarControl
B9PartSwitch
BDBNIC
Benjee10_sharedAssets
Benjee10_shuttleOrbiter
Benjee10_Suits
Bluedog_DB
Bluedog_DB_Extras
CommunityCategoryKit
CommunityResourcePack
ConformalDecals
CrewLight
CryoEngines
CryoEnginesNFLV
CryoEnginesRestock
CryoTanks
CustomPreLaunchChecks
DeployableEngines
DistantObject
DMagicScienceAnimate
DynamicBatteryStorage
EditorExtensionsRedux
EngineIgnitor
EngineLightRelit
EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements
HabTech2
HabTechProps
htRobotics
JNSQ
KerbalKonstructs
KerbinSideRemastered
Knes
Kopernicus
Kronometer
KSCExtended
KSP_PartVolume
MandatoryRCS
MechJeb2
ModularFlightIntegrator
ModularLaunchPads
NearFutureExploration
NearFutureLaunchVehicles
NearFutureProps
NearFutureSolar
NeptuneCamera
NF_Realism
OSSNTR
Patches
PersistentRotation
PhotonCorp
PlanetShine
RationalResources
RealPlume
RealPlume-Stock
reDIRECT
ReStock
ReStockPlus
RestockRigidLegs
SCANsat
scatterer
Shabby
SimpleAdjustableFairings
SkyhawkScienceSystem
SmokeScreen
SOCKrecolored
SpaceTuxLibrary

 

[RKunze]

I am currently developing a MM patch set that changes kOS integration in SSS.

The basic idea is to add a kOSProcessor module to most crewed capsules and probe cores - basically another "kOS for All!"  mini-mod, but depending on and balanced for SSS:

• The performance data of the kOSProcessor (disk space, EC usage per instruction, added mass, ...) depends on the tech tree level where the part is unlocked (processors in earlier probes/capsules are heavier, use more EC per instruction, have smaller disks, and maybe are more expensive).
• If possible, the kOSProcessor module in each capsule/probe core can be added/dropped via PAW in the VAB (this depends on if I can get B9PartSwitch to reliably switch the kOSProcessor module on/off - support for this is labeled as "highly experimental" in the B9PartSwitch wiki).

I can do this either as an integral part of SSS, or as a separate add-on mini mod that depends on SSS,. My personal preference at the moment is to do a separate mini-mod because this gives users more choice.

What is your (especially @CessnaSkyhawk) take on this idea? 

[eberkain]

Ok,  I think I am sold on using this as the base for playing a new career game.  I did a thorough mod list and cross referenced everything on the supported mods list to see what the situation is, what I could drop and what I should add from the list.

 These are the things that I had on my list that do not have support, but have parts. 

TAC Life Support - not sure how many parts are included in this, but there are a decent number.  I don't think there are any life support mods on the supported list?  I'd be go with going with just about any of them, they all have ups and downs. 

B9 Aerospace Procedural Wings - Fork - I'm pretty sure it is only like 6 parts, with AirplanePlus in the list, could probably just drop it, but I do really love the control you get with it.  will probably just drop it.

Better SR Bs - as you said, there are some boosters added by the mod, but mostly it is great since it overhauls all srbs.  will still get a lot out of using it even without the parts it adds. 

Utility Weight - this is just 1 part, i used to use the NRAP mod, but this is a better version IMO.  this part is just on the start node, so it shouldn't matter at the end of the day. 

Space Dust - This im not sure about, it does have some parts and can function standalone, but it is a pre-requesite of Far Future Tech, which is on the list. So I'm not sure if this is already supported on not.  Far future tech also relies on system heat, and I'm not sure how well it plays with other mods on the list, my initial reading was inconclusive on that situation. 

MOAR Station Science - used to love using this back many years ago, thought it might be interesting to revisit, but i will probably just drop it.  I know it has a lot of parts.  will probably just drop it. 

CactEye-2 Orbital Telescope Refocused - This has a few parts and I am looking forward to playing around with it again.  May just drop this too. 

Research Bodies - still not updated for 1.12 but it has a few parts and I do want to use it when I play a career.  Probably won't wait for an update and will proceed without it anyhow, just thought I would mention. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by eberkain

[bigyihsuan]

7 hours ago, eberkain said:

Better SR Bs - as you said, there are some boosters added by the mod, but mostly it is great since it overhauls all srbs.  will still get a lot out of using it even without the parts it adds. 

I have BetterSRBs installed and it's working fine; I've been using the Titan/Prometheus boosters for dozens of rockets now and they've been working as intended.

7 hours ago, eberkain said:

MOAR Station Science - used to love using this back many years ago, thought it might be interesting to revisit, but i will probably just drop it.  I know it has a lot of parts.  will probably just drop it. 

I actually made a pull request (that's now merged as of 1.0.1) that adds compat for it. With the science requirements you'll need all the science you can get, and setting up permanent stations for these experiments will help with that.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

13 hours ago, eberkain said:

Ok,  I think I am sold on using this as the base for playing a new career game.  I did a thorough mod list and cross referenced everything on the supported mods list to see what the situation is, what I could drop and what I should add from the list.

 These are the things that I had on my list that do not have support, but have parts. 

TAC Life Support - not sure how many parts are included in this, but there are a decent number.  I don't think there are any life support mods on the supported list?  I'd be go with going with just about any of them, they all have ups and downs. 

B9 Aerospace Procedural Wings - Fork - I'm pretty sure it is only like 6 parts, with AirplanePlus in the list, could probably just drop it, but I do really love the control you get with it.  will probably just drop it.

Better SR Bs - as you said, there are some boosters added by the mod, but mostly it is great since it overhauls all srbs.  will still get a lot out of using it even without the parts it adds. 

Utility Weight - this is just 1 part, i used to use the NRAP mod, but this is a better version IMO.  this part is just on the start node, so it shouldn't matter at the end of the day. 

Space Dust - This im not sure about, it does have some parts and can function standalone, but it is a pre-requesite of Far Future Tech, which is on the list. So I'm not sure if this is already supported on not.  Far future tech also relies on system heat, and I'm not sure how well it plays with other mods on the list, my initial reading was inconclusive on that situation. 

MOAR Station Science - used to love using this back many years ago, thought it might be interesting to revisit, but i will probably just drop it.  I know it has a lot of parts.  will probably just drop it. 

CactEye-2 Orbital Telescope Refocused - This has a few parts and I am looking forward to playing around with it again.  May just drop this too. 

Research Bodies - still not updated for 1.12 but it has a few parts and I do want to use it when I play a career.  Probably won't wait for an update and will proceed without it anyhow, just thought I would mention. 

@bigyihsuancovered better srbs and MOAR Station Science, but as for the rest, there’s no support for them, but I’m looking into finally setting up that automatic tech tree patch for supporting all mods sometime later this week, which should make it at least somewhat functional, and then I’m open to either accepting pull requests or just adding full support myself sometime in the next weeks. 

[epicpupster239]

Could you maybe add an option to disable the additional fuels added? Playing the mod without the added resources as it causes some issues with the current parts I have.

[Nekurokasume]

This may be a dumb question, because I know quite little about modding, but if I were to remove everything in the "Patches" folder would it be possible to use this just as a tech tree?