atm occlusion setting pointless?

[pwn]

on the surface i had some good 20% connectivity to my satellite directly above me in orbit (on eve)

as soon as i got past the clouds, i suddenly lost all connectivity.

obviously i have plasma failure enabled, but how does this make any sense?
if anything, the connection should be even weaker on the ground, no?

i would also wish it was a more gradual decrease, instead of jumping from 25% to 0%

update: it seems like i misunderstood that plasma failure setting, but the atm occlusion modifier seems to be buggy too - see last post

Edited March 11, 2022 by pwn

[darthgently]

On the ground there would be no plasma enveloping the craft, the craft had LOS (line of sight) path to the sat, so that is why you had a connection there.  Also, maybe, given the orbital speed of the satellite, your signal may have been occluded by Eve by the time your craft reached the point where it lost connection?  Not sure, but it may not have been plasma depending. 

So assuming your craft has LOS to the a sat for the duration of the launch and circularization, and your design allows your craft to get beyond the plasma zone prior to your circularization, you should regain control for performing the circularization burn.  If you only have one sat I could definitely see having issues maintaining LOS if the sat is in too low or too high of an orbit such that its orbital speed causes your craft to not keep up with it (sat in low/fast orbit) or to leave it behind (sat in high/slow orbit) with regards to to signal occlusion by Eve.  I'm just guessing, but maybe some things to consider

It also occurs to me that if you are dealing with a single sat and not multiples around Eve, the sat may have been occluded from relaying control from Kerbin, or if you do have a relaying network of sats, they may not be spaced properly at the proper minimum altitude to always be able to relay control from Kerbin?  Then there is the Kerbin end.  Are you depending on the Eve sat(s) having LOS to KSC directly or do you have relay sats around Kerbin or multiple ground stations on Kerbin?  If you are relying on a direct connection between your Eve sat(s) and KSC then KSC may have gotten occluded by Kerbin during the launch

Edited March 11, 2022 by darthgently

[pwn]

the problem was only being between the clouds and the upper atmosphere, not the satellites.. except the corresponding satellite being kind of weak (~12M, enough for 25% signal strength before it suddenly lost connection)
no idea how this plasma thing works in real life though..

does it mean there is no setting that only affects signals that have to penetrate the atmosphere?

i think in ksp2 there should be a mechanic that rewards multiple small satellites around your target planet, not only for better coverage but also using a better wavelength to penetrate the atmosphere instead of having a bigger range.

Edited March 11, 2022 by pwn

[darthgently]

1 hour ago, pwn said:

the problem was only being between the clouds and the upper atmosphere, not the satellites.. except the corresponding satellite being kind of weak (~12M, enough for 25% signal strength before it suddenly lost connection)
no idea how this plasma thing works in real life though..

does it mean there is no setting that only affects signals that have to penetrate the atmosphere?

i think in ksp2 there should be a mechanic that rewards multiple small satellites around your target planet, not only for better coverage but also using a better wavelength to penetrate the atmosphere instead of having a bigger range.

Plasma interference is a function of the presence and density of the atmosphere and velocity.  The aero drag creates so much friction that the air turns to hot plasma around the craft which blocks radio waves.  So if your velocity is very low or you are above the atmosphere you will have no plasma.  I think in real life there typically isn't any plasma blackout on launch, only on deorbit.  This is because launches from Earth are typically above air thick enough to create a lot of plasma by they time they are approaching those higher velocities.  Consider that the camera feeds from a Falcon 9 launch are constant right up until the upper stage goes out of LOS with the ground station typically.  So it has *nothing* to do with penetrating the atmosphere and is purely a function of air friction.  I think that is where you are getting off track. 

I have never had any issue with LOS contact between Eve's surface and craft in orbit if I had LOS.  Another possibility is are you sure your craft on Eve is using the satellite?  With that weak of a signal and a big enough antenna you could be dealing with a direct connection to Kerbin and by the time you get up there in your launch Eve is in between your craft and Kerbin.  What communications model are you using?  CommNet?  RealAntennas?  RemoteTech?

Are you running out of electricity at that point in the launch?  Did the antenna survive the launch?  If it is a deployable antenna it will not survive an atmosphere launch

Edited March 11, 2022 by darthgently

[darthgently]

Check your radio links in Map View using the "link" or "connection" button in the clock widget at the top-left.  Verify your network is working how you think it is

[pwn]

the satellite doesn't move fast enough to get out of range and as i said, as soon as i leave the atmosphere, the signal comes back.

it's just ridiculous that the atmosphere seems to have no effect on the signal strength except when this plasma thing happens... seems kinda unrealistic

for now i guess i'll play without plasma failure.. just disappointed it didn't work the way i thought it would.

Edited March 11, 2022 by pwn

[darthgently]

34 minutes ago, pwn said:

the satellite doesn't move fast enough to get out of range and as i said, as soon as i leave the atmosphere, the signal comes back.

it's just ridiculous that the atmosphere seems to have no effect on the signal strength except when this plasma thing happens... seems kinda unrealistic

for now i guess i'll play without plasma failure.. just disappointed it didn't work the way i thought it would.

What do you mean unrealistic?  If it is simulating plasma then until you leave the atmo at near orbital velocities you will have plasma around the craft blocking radio signals.    The reason it has no effect when you are landed is you have no velocity so no air friction so no plasma.  I think turning it off until you understand it is a good idea.  When do you think plasma blackout should occur?

Edited March 11, 2022 by darthgently

[pwn]

21 minutes ago, darthgently said:

 When do you think plasma blackout should occur?

since i misunderstood the whole plasma thing from the beginning, i guess just as it is now.

i just hope they take atmosphere into account in the next game (when you are not under plasma).

it seems crazy that they simulate that but not the general atmosphere dampening

Edited March 11, 2022 by pwn

[darthgently]

5 minutes ago, pwn said:

since i misunderstood the whole plasma thing from the beginning, i guess just as it is now.

i just hope they take atmosphere into account in the next game (when you are not under plasma).

it seems crazy that they simulate that but not the general atmosphere dampening

I think you can adjust the occlusion factor in the difficulty settings.  I can't remember if it varies by presence/density of atmosphere though.  Atmospheric attenuation would realistically be very dependent on the wavelengths of the signal involved and how that wavelength would interact with the elements and compounds that make up the atmosphere so that would be a fairly big ask.  It could get very complicated if you start taking into account ionospheres if they exist etc.  On earth a segment of the HF band (maybe all of it, can't recall) radio bounces off the ionosphere allowing bouncing signals off of it and reaching points thousands of miles over the horizon when the conditions are right.  But most non-HF frequencies go right through the ionosphere like visible light through a window.  Water moisture tends to absorb microwave bands that are resonant with water molecules and so block it more.  I have no idea what the filtering effect by band Eve's atmo would have, lol.  I'm pretty sure that RemoteTech, and maybe RealAntennas might do some atmospheric attenuation; you'd need to read the docs on them to know for sure though.  I gave up on RemoteTech as it is a resource hog and I found it to be unstable

[pwn]

i tried playing with the atmosphere occlusion modifier but it didn't seem to do anything.

thank you for the mod suggestions, i'll take a look into them,,,

[pwn]

update:

it seems like there actually is a bug or two:

the atmosphere occlusion modifier only gets applied when you enter a vessel, you won't see an immediate effect if you are already flying something.

also:

when i set it to 10% (what cancels the connection to my satellites), i still have a 3% signal to my carrier.
but when i set it to 99%, i loose that connection - while my satellites work perfectly when they are in range.

edit: the tooltip says it's applied on the "size of the object"..... kinda doesnt make any sense, why is there no setting for how strong atmosphere is dampening the signal?

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by pwn